Megaengineering thread!

[SunlitZelkova]

I discovered a couple of proposed skyscraper designs the other day, and it brought me back to the various concepts of... large stuff. Anything from Dyson spheres to enormous aircraft, feel free to share it here. This may somewhat cross over with the Real Life Kerbalisms thread but at the same time it is its own independent theme (size, not craziness), so I thought I would make another thread.

Here is the Tokyo Tower of Babel, a proposed 10,000 meter tall skyscraper. In contrast, the Burj Khalifa is 830 meters tall. Also amazing is that this building would be 1200 meters taller than Mount Everest. It would cost 25 trillion dollars to build and take 150 years to construct: literally twice the time elapsed from the Meiji Restoration, which began Japan's modernization, to the present day. The foundation would be 12 kilometers in diameter.

At 300 meters height: city and underground infrastructure, power plants, parking, at 1000 meters height: residential areas and shops. At 3,500 meters height: offices, hotels. At 6,000 meters: administrative buildings and leisure facilities. At 9,000 meters, factories and scientific research facilities. At the top: a solar energy collector and a space development center.

It is unclear whether this proposal was a stunt by an architectural company or if it was the product of serious urban planning studies. It is known that a planning group studying verticalization of metropolises did exist somewhere in the Japanese government in the 90s, but the bursting of the economic bubble doomed these well before the challenges posed by the necessity of much stronger materials than what is currently available.

[DDE]

9 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

At 300 meters height: city and underground infrastructure, power plants, parking, at 1000 meters height: residential areas and shops. At 3,500 meters height: offices, hotels. At 6,000 meters: administrative buildings and leisure facilities. At 9,000 meters, factories and scientific research facilities. At the top: a solar energy collector and a space development center.

...oxygen masks not included?

[tater]

Back in High School I was intrigued by "megastructure" architecture. Our library had this book:

so I actually bought it when it was rereleased: https://worldarchitecture.org/articles/cmzez/volume_reissues_reyner_benhamis_seminal_work_on_megastructures_of_the_20th_century.html.

 

 

 

 

[steve9728]

11 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

I discovered a couple of proposed skyscraper designs the other day, and it brought me back to the various concepts of... large stuff. Anything from Dyson spheres to enormous aircraft, feel free to share it here. This may somewhat cross over with the Real Life Kerbalisms thread but at the same time it is its own independent theme (size, not craziness), so I thought I would make another thread.

Here is the Tokyo Tower of Babel, a proposed 10,000 meter tall skyscraper. In contrast, the Burj Khalifa is 830 meters tall. Also amazing is that this building would be 1200 meters taller than Mount Everest. It would cost 25 trillion dollars to build and take 150 years to construct: literally twice the time elapsed from the Meiji Restoration, which began Japan's modernization, to the present day. The foundation would be 12 kilometers in diameter.

At 300 meters height: city and underground infrastructure, power plants, parking, at 1000 meters height: residential areas and shops. At 3,500 meters height: offices, hotels. At 6,000 meters: administrative buildings and leisure facilities. At 9,000 meters, factories and scientific research facilities. At the top: a solar energy collector and a space development center.

It is unclear whether this proposal was a stunt by an architectural company or if it was the product of serious urban planning studies. It is known that a planning group studying verticalization of metropolises did exist somewhere in the Japanese government in the 90s, but the bursting of the economic bubble doomed these well before the challenges posed by the necessity of much stronger materials than what is currently available.

Looking at the support structure below reminds me of:

 

Spoiler

Bought their film handbook recently, and it's attached with posters:

Need to find a framing shop nearby.

[Shpaget]

Factories at 9000 m? I can't imagine that being sensible. Not only you need to haul all the stuff up and down, but so many industrial processes depend on atmosphere, so even if you could provide oxygen for personnel, the machines themselves need air too, so you'll need to pressurize the factories, which is certainly not trivial.

But why do it anyway. Not even Japan, the stereotypically crowded country is in such a short supply of space to need this.

[kerbiloid]

The expanding top clearly explains the idea.

They believe that the Earth is flat, the crystal sky dome is 10 km high.
(That's btw also why the planes are flying there. They just can't cross the glass ceiling.)

The construction will additionally support the sky dome as a column.
(Thus, the more such columns, the stronger the sky.)

Also the vortex-like top allows to mine minerals right in the sky, and let them fall down, instead of lifting them up.
Or, as there are celestial waters above the dome (the rains are running right from that altitude), it can be a hydropower plant.

[steve9728]

Even if none of the above is taken into account, there is still some problems that cannot be avoided: typhoons, earthquakes and secondary disasters caused by it. This thing need to be built in a country that doesn't know where it should waste hell of its money, is geologically stable and doesn't have too much bad weather. Such as somewhere Arab.

Comparing this and the tower, I prefer the tower have to say.

Edited May 25, 2023 by steve9728

[darthgently]

3 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

The expanding top clearly explains the idea.

They believe that the Earth is flat, the crystal sky dome is 10 km high.
(That's btw also why the planes are flying there. They just can't cross the glass ceiling.)

The construction will additionally support the sky dome as a column.
(Thus, the more such columns, the stronger the sky.)

Also the vortex-like top allows to mine minerals right in the sky, and let them fall down, instead of lifting them up.
Or, as there are celestial waters above the dome (the rains are running right from that altitude), it can be a hydropower plant.

Once you mine through the crystal dome one had better have built a big support column lest the whole dome come crashing down.  The science is settled

[magnemoe]

17 hours ago, DDE said:

...oxygen masks not included?

My first thought to, granted you can pressurize it, its not an huge issue then you build an multi kilometer tower in the first place but its an security issue. 

1 hour ago, steve9728 said:

Even if none of the above is taken into account, there is still some problems that cannot be avoided: typhoons, earthquakes and secondary disasters caused by it. This thing need to be built in a country that doesn't know where it should waste hell of its money, is geologically stable and doesn't have too much bad weather. Such as somewhere Arab.

Comparing this and the tower, I prefer the tower have to say.

Agree, the line make very very little sense. Same design but more like an square but keeping the design and it would be much smarter and more compact. 

[AckSed]

I get the feeling The Line is them wanting to unroll a torus-shaped space station onto the ground.

[kerbiloid]

A Double Spiral Line City.

[farmerben]

 

[magnemoe]

20 hours ago, farmerben said:

 

This is the standard design idea of suburbs. You don't want to live in the city center, its to expensive, noisy and no place to have kids or kid sized pets and is polluted but that part at least is getting fixed. 
Replace the channels with highways and add two levels of rail, high speed with 7 stops on map and local. 

[kerbiloid]

A towntryside.

[farmerben]

On 5/24/2023 at 1:30 AM, SunlitZelkova said:

I discovered a couple of proposed skyscraper designs the other day, and it brought me back to the various concepts of... large stuff. Anything from Dyson spheres to enormous aircraft, feel free to share it here. This may somewhat cross over with the Real Life Kerbalisms thread but at the same time it is its own independent theme (size, not craziness), so I thought I would make another thread.

Here is the Tokyo Tower of Babel, a proposed 10,000 meter tall skyscraper. In contrast, the Burj Khalifa is 830 meters tall. Also amazing is that this building would be 1200 meters taller than Mount Everest. It would cost 25 trillion dollars to build and take 150 years to construct: literally twice the time elapsed from the Meiji Restoration, which began Japan's modernization, to the present day. The foundation would be 12 kilometers in diameter.

At 300 meters height: city and underground infrastructure, power plants, parking, at 1000 meters height: residential areas and shops. At 3,500 meters height: offices, hotels. At 6,000 meters: administrative buildings and leisure facilities. At 9,000 meters, factories and scientific research facilities. At the top: a solar energy collector and a space development center.

It is unclear whether this proposal was a stunt by an architectural company or if it was the product of serious urban planning studies. It is known that a planning group studying verticalization of metropolises did exist somewhere in the Japanese government in the 90s, but the bursting of the economic bubble doomed these well before the challenges posed by the necessity of much stronger materials than what is currently available.

Instead of an arcology which is hard to finance, maintain, and adapt.  We need this tower for the worlds largest cooling tower.  We build it on top of the ocean.  Then detonate thermo-nukes to generate steam.  Eject the steam at mach 1 and 10,000 m.  Get giant snow clouds.  

[steve9728]

I suddenly realised that this modern Tower of Babel can be some kind of space elevator

Here's an addition to the space elevator made by some "MC nerds" story based on a movie:

Spoiler

Original. The correct way to play MC is watch how pro play it

Edited May 28, 2023 by steve9728

[magnemoe]

1 hour ago, steve9728 said:

I suddenly realised that this modern Tower of Babel can be some kind of space elevator

Here's an addition to the space elevator made by some "MC nerds" story based on a movie:

  Reveal hidden contents

Original. The correct way to play MC is watch how pro play it

Why are they using rockets on an rail. You would use magnets or wheels. I guess wheels inside the atmosphere as its just 30 km them magnetic. 

[steve9728]

28 minutes ago, magnemoe said:

Why are they using rockets on an rail. You would use magnets or wheels. I guess wheels inside the atmosphere as its just 30 km them magnetic. 

There film handbook said that the carriage is propelled by electromagnetic propulsion and suspended from the rail. "If accelerated at 9G, it would take only half a minute to reach an average speed of 3km/s and approximately no more than four hours to reach the 38,000km space station dock. However, in general, where high acceleration is not required, the carriage can travel at 1km/s and take approximately ten and a half hours to reach the space station dock. There are nine space elevator carriages, and the carriages are covered with ice, which is physically cooled by reactions such as vaporisation and melting, so that a large amount of water vapour is generated when the cabins take off and land. "

Back to why rocket, well, magnets is indeed more reasonable for sure, but that's a movie, rocket definitely can bring more sound and light aren't they

Edited May 28, 2023 by steve9728

[kerbiloid]

34 minutes ago, magnemoe said:

Why are they using rockets on an rail.

Cuz raccoons are cheap.

Spoiler

[AckSed]

Found a subvariant of an orbital ring, the Tethered Ring, and it looks... attainable. It's very explicitly 2017 technology to create a stratospheric launch loop:

Step one: create magnetically-levitated ring/mass-stream inside an evacuated outer ring that has the South Pacific Gyre as its centre, such that it touches upon the East coast of Australia and the West coast of North America;

Step two: lay down carbon-fibre tethers all along its circumference, and solar panels on the outside to power it;

Step three: start the rotor;

Step four: haul the now much-stiffened ring up with the tethers like an old-fashioned hoop skirt, to an altitude of 32km;

Step five: profit! from the cheap launch, energy production (no clouds or dirt in the stratosphere to obscure solar) and storage (less than 1% of the energy can be tapped for over 220 megawatt/hours), fast transport and even possible habitats.

Do watch the presentation. Much of the early application of the small-medium-scale prototypes are in energy storage, to buy down the risk and make people less jumpy with big spinny hoops; there's even one that collects and stores wave energy.

Here's the paper: https://www.project-atlantis.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/TetheredRingPaper.pdf

Edited Monday at 02:17 PM by AckSed
Amounts corrected

[SunlitZelkova]

11 hours ago, AckSed said:

Do watch the presentation.

That was cool.

A couple reactions:

1. Given its location, I propose its official name be The Ring of Fire.

2. I'm sure my dad would enjoy being able to just drive to the coast and go directly to Japan instead of having to transfer through SFO or LAX 

[Pthigrivi]

Another great source (if you can get your hands on it) is Paolo Soleri’s Arcology: The City in the Image of Man. Also fun for Simcity 2000 nostalgia. 

 

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

Todos Santos anyone? 

... cubic square mile, 1000 feet tall... 

an arcology, named Todos Santos, to which control of the area and legal jurisdiction was ceded. The higher standard of living enjoyed by Todos Santos residents causes resentment among Angelenos. The arcology dwellers have evolved a different culture, sacrificing privacy – there are cameras (not routinely monitored) even in the private apartments – in exchange for security.

 

Edited Tuesday at 07:41 AM by JoeSchmuckatelli

[darthgently]

On 2/17/2025 at 9:10 AM, AckSed said:

Found a subvariant of an orbital ring, the Tethered Ring, and it looks... attainable. It's very explicitly 2017 technology to create a stratospheric launch loop:

Step one: create magnetically-levitated ring/mass-stream inside an evacuated outer ring that has the South Pacific Gyre as its centre, such that it touches upon the East coast of Australia and the West coast of North America;

Step two: lay down carbon-fibre tethers all along its circumference, and solar panels on the outside to power it;

Step three: start the rotor;

Step four: haul the now much-stiffened ring up with the tethers like an old-fashioned hoop skirt, to an altitude of 32km;

Step five: profit! from the cheap launch, energy production (no clouds or dirt in the stratosphere to obscure solar) and storage (less than 1% of the energy can be tapped for over 220 megawatt/hours), fast transport and even possible habitats.

Do watch the presentation. Much of the early application of the small-medium-scale prototypes are in energy storage, to buy down the risk and make people less jumpy with big spinny hoops; there's even one that collects and stores wave energy.

Here's the paper: https://www.project-atlantis.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/TetheredRingPaper.pdf

Unless the ring is centered on one of the poles, which the Pacific Ocean is not, the gyroscopic forces in it as the earth rotates would be hideous  and power failure and many other failures would not be an option.  I say keep the ultramegastrucures away from the only life bearing planet we know of

Edited Tuesday at 04:52 PM by darthgently

[AckSed]

46 minutes ago, darthgently said:

Unless the ring is centered on one of the poles, which the Pacific Ocean is not, the gyroscopic forces in it as the earth rotates would be hideous  and power failure and many other failures would not be an option.

There is an alternate site centred around Australia and Antarctica in the paper.

I know intuitively the forces seem titanic. RE: gyroscopic/precession forces, the author of the paper had this to say:

Quote

The ring rotates twice an hour. The Earth rotates once every 24 hours. So the gyroscopic forces are roughly 1/48th as strong [as] the forces that the magnetic confinement system already needs to deal with.

Each carbon-fibre (not graphene, carbon-fibre) cable has an engineering safety-factor of 2, and the ring is winched off the ground, so collectively the tether system is capable of withstanding double the forces of what the rings already weigh.

The assertion that, should the worst happen, the rotors are already moving at escape velocity and would either burn up in the atmosphere or fly off into space is not comforting, it's true.