KSP2 EA Grand Discussion Thread.

[PDCWolf]

8 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

Have you not used Reddit before? Lol

Yes, it's exactly why I know those aren't bots and every comment isn't "overwhelmingly positive".

[MechBFP]

4 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

Yes, it's exactly why I know those aren't bots and every comment isn't "overwhelmingly positive".

So you are saying a group of people are subscribed to everything he posts and they stop whatever they are doing in real life to immediately log in to downvote the post without reading/watching it?

Okay then. 

Edited August 10, 2023 by MechBFP

[Alexoff]

Everyone knows that the community is very pleased with the game and looks forward with confidence and patience. And therefore it is impossible to imagine that there can be more than ten people who want to put minuses to the representative of the developers

[regex]

19 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

So you are saying a group of people are subscribed to everything he posts and they stop whatever they are doing in real life to immediately log in to downvote the post without reading/watching it?

Have you not used Reddit before?

FWIW I completely agree with Dakota there, interacting on Reddit can definitely feel futile because it's a popularity contest at best. Certain subs can be civil, even productive, but video gamers are historically an extremely fickle lot and giving them a downvote button leads to predictable results.

[PDCWolf]

16 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

So you are saying a group of people are subscribed to everything he posts and they stop whatever they are doing in real life to immediately log in to downvote the post without reading/watching it?

Okay then. 

I'm saying the KSP subreddit has 1.5 million members. He's saying that there's a single guy, with 3 to 10 bot accounts, that automatically downvotes his every post. Further on, there's evidence that the community reception to update posts is not overwhelmingly positive, which you can easily check on this flair-filtered query: dev posts receive very little positive feedback, much less overwhelmingly positive.

However, I'm being asked to believe that in 1.5 million people, there's a single guy "sticking it back to them", and not 3 to 10 angry people online right when he posts. As someone else said in another thread: Puhleeeeeeeeze

[Alexoff]

Oh, this is a bad community! Why don't the good players compensate with their pluses for a few minuses from bots? And did the developers of KSP1 have such a problem before?

[Socraticat]

So check this, Dakota never mentioned 100% certainty. Even mentions the proof is a 30 second window. That kind of behavior feels like botting.

Personally I don't really post to reddit anymore because it doesn't matter if I'm pro or against something KSP2, if it's a KSP2 post it always starts off negative. OK. So I get what Dakota is feeling.

After that every thing just gets blown out of proportion. All of the comments are "How dare you call me a bot!" Or some variation of "game garbage, devs trying to trick me, etc". 

The important thing to me here is 30 seconds. That initial upload time. If you weren't there for that moment, the comment isn't about you! It's so not about you!

This is a comment about how difficult it is to communicate- like, actually have productive discourse- in Reddit's M.O.

[Socraticat]

I'm going to emphasize the words "Feels like", which to me is the same as saying "I'm 95% certain".

The alternative, as has been mentioned, is that there are 10 people just waiting to downvote in the KSP2 subreddit as it auto-refreshes in "new".

Sort of an Occams Razor argument. Of "1.5 million people" is exactly the kind of hyperbole I'mtalking about. Less than 200 are playing the game and the KSP subreddit currently has less than 1500 people online as of this moment.

It's easier for me to imagine 1 botter handing out auto downvotes. It's so much harder for me to believe a few dozen peeps have nothing better to do than wait patiently all day just to downvote KSP2 content in new within THIRTY SECONDS.

I'm outta here for now. See ya'll tomorrow in the K.E.R.B.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Socraticat
Redundancy and spacing (heh)

[Audaylon]

I believe there is a campaign on the KSP 1 reddit against anything positive about KSP 2.   It's wild because some reddit users act like they are being tortured because KSP 2 is being developed.  The negative posts get voted up, but if you dig into the comment section, the majority of the comments are sick of the campaign.  And the positive comments are voted down there too.  KSP 2 reddit is nicer. lol

[Socraticat]

3 minutes ago, Audaylon said:

I believe there is a campaign on the KSP 1 reddit against anything positive about KSP 2

I've wondered this too. It could be organic dissatisfaction, but it sometimes feels pushed, if not coordinated. Reminds me of the "agent provocateur".

Imagine dedicating your day to making someone else's miserable. What a sorry way to live.

[Alexoff]

And in Steam there should also be bots every day giving negative reviews for the game?

[regex]

4 minutes ago, Socraticat said:

I've wondered this too. It could be organic dissatisfaction, but it sometimes feels pushed, if not coordinated. Reminds me of the "agent provocateur".

I used to be part of a sub with a similarly large subscriber count and every single post made was downvoted within a few minutes. All it takes is one person scrolling through and hitting the downvote during their normal reading, it was an expected thing there but thankfully only seemed to be one or two people at most just having a laugh. I don't know what's going on in the KSP sub but out of 1.5 million subs there could easily be like, fifty completely uncoordinated people who are ready to smash that downvote button during their normal reading day.

[MechBFP]

1 hour ago, PDCWolf said:

I'm saying the KSP subreddit has 1.5 million members. He's saying that there's a single guy, with 3 to 10 bot accounts, that automatically downvotes his every post. Further on, there's evidence that the community reception to update posts is not overwhelmingly positive, which you can easily check on this flair-filtered query: dev posts receive very little positive feedback, much less overwhelmingly positive.

However, I'm being asked to believe that in 1.5 million people, there's a single guy "sticking it back to them", and not 3 to 10 angry people online right when he posts. As someone else said in another thread: Puhleeeeeeeeze

I mean either way people are downvoting indiscriminately for childish reasons given that they clearly aren’t reading it before hand.  Doesn’t really matter if it is bots or people. 

[PDCWolf]

2 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

I mean either way people are downvoting indiscriminately for childish reasons given that they clearly aren’t reading it before hand.  Doesn’t really matter if it is bots or people. 

You're assuming the downvotes are "to stick it back" or some other reason instead of organic. I urge you to just try Occam's razor once.

[MechBFP]

22 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

You're assuming the downvotes are "to stick it back" or some other reason instead of organic. I urge you to just try Occam's razor once.

What is simpler than clicking the downvote button without taking time to think?

[Alexoff]

Just now, MechBFP said:

What is simpler than clicking the downvote button without taking time to think?

And if someone upvotes without thinking, is that also bad?

[PDCWolf]

Just now, MechBFP said:

What is simpler than clicking the downvote button without taking time to think?

Well, the simple thing to do is go there and look for yourself, people are angry, and they even bother to leave replies about it. You'll actually find some threads with much more replies than up/downvotes

[MechBFP]

2 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

And if someone upvotes without thinking, is that also bad?

I didn’t say it was bad, I said it was childish. 

[K33N]

3 hours ago, PDCWolf said:

Seeing this post and then this is a trip:

Dakota accuses Reddit (or some of its users) of botting to downvote his posts, because the posts on release notes are "overwhelmingly positive". And when things are not overwhelmingly positive, it's because the negative sentiment "snowballs" after being "swayed" by bot downvotes.

The discord is... SO toxic. I just got muted for pushing back on the crazy insults and flaming. The Intercept moderation and managers are curating an insanely hostile environment on purpose, probably so they can vent like this and only receive positive feedback. 

Really makes you appreciate the subreddit and this forum. Thanks to the mods here for caring about the community.

Edited August 10, 2023 by K33N

[PDCWolf]

Just now, K33N said:

The discord is... SO toxic. I just got muted for pushing back on the crazy insults and flaming. The Intercept moderation and managers are curating an insanely hostile environment on purpose, probably so they can vent like this and only receive positive feedback. 

Really makes you appreciate the subreddit and this forum. Thanks to the mods here for caring about the community.

The forum is not free of sin, allowing certain people to post clearly inflammatory content, but corporate discords... yeah, no salvation on those, they're straight up a cultivated pandering echo chamber and when something isn't liked, just slowmode the normal users and let the praisers speak.

[K33N]

1 minute ago, PDCWolf said:

The forum is not free of sin, allowing certain people to post clearly inflammatory content, but corporate discords... yeah, no salvation on those, they're straight up a cultivated pandering echo chamber and when something isn't liked, just slowmode the normal users and let the praisers speak.

It's way, way beyond anything allowed here.

[VlonaldKerman]

Not to beat a dead horse, but…

2019: Game due in one year!

2020-2022: Game being delayed for maximum quality, because we like the game too!

10/2022: Actually, the game will have an EA! It’s next year.

2023: KSP 2 released in alpha (generously) state, for $50.

 

Yeah, you’re going to have some negativity.

I wish that 100% of the negativity came from well-thought-out, well-intentioned places, but remember, Dakota is being PAID to deal with it on behalf of the team!

In the past few days there have actually been some great and productive discussions about certain game systems, especially resources. For me, though, those discussions have really hammered home how long the game has to go. We don’t have reentry heat yet (for example) and on this forum we’re discussing serious, fundamental issues with how to weave together systems which don’t even exist yet, as far as we know. This project is YEARS away from being done. For many people, myself included, who first started getting hyped four years ago, that is very frustrating. It gets expressed different ways on different platforms, by different people.

[Bej Kerman]

5 hours ago, Royalswissarmyknife said:

if I had to argue Ksp-1 with mods looks way better

Spoiler

 

 

[TwoCalories]

12 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Completely agree with Keen here. The hyperfixation on realism makes them look like a sore thumb. You can give me a good reason not to think this, or you can just mock us since that seems to be the dayjob of many here.

 

6 hours ago, Royalswissarmyknife said:

They are very different styles.

if I had to argue Ksp-1 with mods looks way better but they are both very different for what they are trying to accomplish.

mostly a matter of opinion of what style you like but I would say Ksp-2 looks to childish to me personally not too different from the game as a whole right now.

I think most of us can agree Ksp-1 without mods looks WAY worse the Ksp-2.

  Reveal hidden contents

I have actually played both Ksp-2 Stock and Ksp-1 with all the newest visual mods unlike some people who like to compare them.

 

@Bej Kerman is right on how KSP1 with graphics mods looks a little off, when you have the cartoony Kerbals and spacecrafts and then the super-realistic oceans and clouds and rocks, etc. But @Royalswissarmyknife is also right that it's two different styles.

I think, personally, KSP2 looks the best because of the consistent art style, but it's just not what we're used to from the original. And don't get me wrong: KSP1 with graphics mods is big step up from stock. I'm just saying that the game was never built to have volumetric clouds and ground scatter as far as the eye can see.

[TwoCalories]

On 8/5/2023 at 9:44 PM, Xtra said:

Honestly... How can anyone be Hyped about this game anymore when basic functions aren't working.  I don't give a damn about new engines, other planet visuals, Heat dynamics or science missions.  I want to be able to build a ship that doesn't just fall apart on the launchpad like it's been put together with masking tape and spit.  I'm not building highly complex rockets...

Why not take all the bugs you've found and put it into a bug report where the information can be used and the bugs can be fixed, instead of that huge wall of text with no details about the bugs whatsoever?

On 8/5/2023 at 9:44 PM, Xtra said:

Blame went to the Pandemic... You all are Computer Techies... Zoom Meetings have been out for Years... working from home has been going on for Years before the pandemic...

Actually, it wasn't just the pandemic, it was the fact that Take-Two poached most of the staff from Star Theory (the main development team) and closed the studio. That would probably affect the project, wouldn't it?

On 8/5/2023 at 9:44 PM, Xtra said:

I'm currently playing several EA games that have no where near the basic problems/issues this game has.  They even added Bug reporting within their games that capture the data needed for review.

Uh... the KSP2 team has added bug reporting in the launcher and on the forums.

On 8/5/2023 at 9:44 PM, Xtra said:

But I keep hearing about adding new and more without the fixes for things like the Kracken or the fact that parts don't stay connected as they should.

...which brings us back to bug reporting and the bug fix status updates that happen on the forums.

On 8/5/2023 at 9:44 PM, Xtra said:

The UI is Horrible when you compare it to KSP 1, The VAB UI is junk compared to KSP 1,  The parts manager is a terrible.

The part manager is a questionable feature, but the stuff about the UI sounds more like personal preference than bad game design.

On 8/5/2023 at 9:44 PM, Xtra said:

The ability to remove symetry parts isn't there, so if you use it to install and find you need to remove one... You start all over.

Usually if you need to remove a symmetry part, you take it off, change it to the symmetry count you want, and put it back on...?

On 8/5/2023 at 9:44 PM, Xtra said:

Adding multiple struts doesn't always work and if you delete one, the part still shows up.

...once again brings us back to bug reporting.

On 8/5/2023 at 9:44 PM, Xtra said:

my computer was especially built to handle the latest MS Flight Sim with Live weather and Air Traffic, complete with all the external control systems

I've just checked and MSFS has lower CPU and GPU recommended specs than KSP2.

On 8/5/2023 at 9:44 PM, Xtra said:

To the Dev's stop dinking around with the New and Next greatest... Fix what's Broken and get a Playable game that works beyond your stock rockets because after 36hrs of Trying to make it work and hours of designing my ships only to have them explode on the pad before the Launch button is ever pressed is not a playable game.

...which they are doing, if you read the dev posts and bug fix status updates which, judging your post, it seems you haven't.