KSP2 EA Grand Discussion Thread.

[Alexoff]

2 hours ago, Periple said:

It's possible that the publisher did indeed feel that the studio was spinning their wheels and needed a hard deadline to focus their minds. If so then that was clearly a bad call, or rather they should have paid proper attention to managing expectations.

Hard deadline? The deadline was very flexible, it moved from spring 2020 to February 2023. Just like the rockets in KSP2!

[Meecrob]

On 10/11/2023 at 4:09 PM, regex said:

No, I expected a game in active development. Big difference. And I won't make my judgement over whether it's a "turd" until they claim it's been released.

Look, I totally agree with you on like 95% of EA games. This one, however, seems to be in trouble. I've bought a couple others that ran into problems. The symptoms are uncannily similar with KSP2. It would be different if KSP2 was literally only KSP1 and we were complaining there are no colonies or multiplayer. Remember, we are currently arguing about a game about orbital mechanics that cannot even get orbital mechanics correct. A game about rockets, that cannot make them rigid. A game where the first one encouraged exploration at the launch complex, and this one doesn't even have colliders for the stairs. A game that basically put all its eggs in the basket of attracting new players with slick tutorials, but forgot the game. Debate what you want to call it all you want. Personally, I think its a turd in its current state. I know I'm not some outlier with my opinion.

 

"Active development" is very generous. Let me ask you a question; when do you think 1.0 will drop?

Edited October 13, 2023 by Meecrob

[Infinite Aerospace]

15 minutes ago, Meecrob said:

Debate what you want to call it all you want. Personally, I think its a turd in its current state. I know I'm not some outlier with my opinion.

 

"Active development" is very generous. Let me ask you a question; when do you think 1.0 will drop?

You're not in the minority with that opinion. You're in the overwhelming majority! I'm honestly starting to think / fear we'll never see KSP2 reach version 1.0 and you know what, that would suck.

 

That said though, I can't think of a single person here, or elsewhere who actually wants to see the game fail. It's just an expectation for many at this point and that's the sad reality as far as I see it. 

[Meecrob]

1 hour ago, Infinite Aerospace said:

I can't think of a single person here, or elsewhere who actually wants to see the game fail.

Exactly. We are upset because we want to see this game be amazing and there does not seem to be a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Edit: I think need to remind people that KSP1 had a messed up road to 1.0 including obvious shortcuts taken to make a date. This is eerily similar to KSP2, only this time its a proper video game studio, not a media company that had a game land in their lap with no prior experience in games.

I only say it so someone doesn't reply with "but KSP1 was this and that"

Edited October 13, 2023 by Meecrob

[airless2112]

I don't want KSP2 to fail.  I really wanted it to be good.   I love KSP and there are really no other comparable games in the genre.  KSP2 was ambitious so I really rooted for it.  

Wasn't there supposed to be a "brief window" where re-entry heat and aero is "disabled?"  It wasn't disabled.  It was clearly never implemented.  That's just dishonest.  We've seen some visual effects in-edtor, that's it.

Being lied to is worse than slow progress.  We can deal with slow progress.   I can accept slow progress, as long as they get it right in the end.   The heat stuff just seems like deceit, and really kills my faith in this project anymore.

So far, we've got aerobrake parts and maybe an extendable engine nozzle?  And hopefully fixes for fundamental Newtonian orbital mechanics.  The game depends on those.

Hey, I'd really like to be proven wrong.   I mean we're almost nine months past early access launch.  A human child could have been born.   

I'm new.  Let's see if this comment gets approved.  

 

 

[Meecrob]

2 hours ago, airless2112 said:

Let's see if this comment gets approved.

I approve it...but I'm clearly on the detractors side. Your comment is very valuable...its your first (Welcome!) and you decided to state you are kinda not pleased. I also had higher expectations. Lots of us did. Like its almost even not the price, even though it stings, it that this is a cheap facsimile of KSP. I just want the franchise done justice.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Meecrob

[Periple]

5 hours ago, Meecrob said:

"Active development" is very generous. Let me ask you a question; when do you think 1.0 will drop?

I’m guessing 1-2 years. It’s really rare for games to be in EA longer than that!

2 hours ago, airless2112 said:

Wasn't there supposed to be a "brief window" where re-entry heat and aero is "disabled?"  It wasn't disabled.  It was clearly never implemented.  That's just dishonest.  We've seen some visual effects in-edtor, that's it.

Being lied to is worse than slow progress.  We can deal with slow progress.   I can accept slow progress, as long as they get it right in the end.   The heat stuff just seems like deceit, and really kills my faith in this project anymore.

I don’t think so.

I think it’s much more likely that they had a solution in place and it was “almost working.” They kept trying to make it completely work but kept running into issues. Finally a more experienced engineer stepped in and determined that there was a fundamental design flaw and all the attempts to fix it had turned the code into spaghetti and they need to start over.

It’s really common for developers to spin their wheels like that, and it’s surprisingly hard to create a culture where somebody steps in relatively early to end the “just a few more days” thing which can otherwise stretch into weeks, then months. 

It’s clear that KSP2’s development has been troubled and if that’s the case, it manifests precisely as troubles like that — things staying in the “almost finished” state way too long!

[Meecrob]

1 minute ago, Periple said:

I’m guessing 1-2 years. It’s really rare for games to be in EA longer than that!

Yeah, I said two years. And i think you are painting yourself into a corner here. Like if this game isn't good in two years, you are wrong, I was just guessing, lol.

[Periple]

1 minute ago, Meecrob said:

Yeah, I said two years. And i think you are painting yourself into a corner here. Like if this game isn't good in two years, you are wrong, I was just guessing, lol.

We’re all guessing and I don’t mind being wrong, especially about stuff where it really doesn’t matter!

[Meecrob]

I was about to edit my comment to say I was joking, same as you. I'm still trying to find reasons to believe this game will turn out well anymore.

[Periple]

1 minute ago, Meecrob said:

I was about to edit my comment to say I was joking, same as you. I'm still trying to find reasons to believe this game will turn out well anymore.

Why do you feel you have to? Your optimism or pessimism has no impact on the outcome. It will be what it will be and we’ll either enjoy it or move on to something else. Investing a lot of emotional energy into it either way strikes me as a waste.

[Meecrob]

Yeah, logically you are correct. But game companies like Take 2 spend hundreds of millions of dollars emotionally hyping people up to buy their games.

Call me an idiot for buying into their hype, but please do not call me out for calling them out for a sub-par product.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Meecrob

[The Aziz]

56 minutes ago, Periple said:

I’m guessing 1-2 years. It’s really rare for games to be in EA longer than that!

Uhhh.... I'd say quite the opposite.

Unless we talking about some generic first person view survival slapped together in UE4/Unity, then maybe yes.

Edited October 13, 2023 by The Aziz

[Periple]

2 hours ago, Meecrob said:

Call me an idiot for buying into their hype, but please do not call me out for calling them out for a sub-par product.

Calling someone out for a sub-par product is one thing. Continuously complaining about it for the better part of a year is another. I don't think that's particularly healthy, nor is it likely to change anything for the better. 

(On the other hand, continuously complaining about people continuously complaining about the state of the game isn't particularly productive either so maybe I ought to take my own advice on that point! )

[Kerbart]

3 hours ago, Periple said:

Calling someone out for a sub-par product is one thing. Continuously complaining about it for the better part of a year is another. I don't think that's particularly healthy, nor is it likely to change anything for the better. 

 

I’m sure most, if not all of us, would rather play the game. But we can’t because it’s unplayable. So we rant.

It’s not productive but neither is boasting about grid fins when the game needs serious fixing.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Kerbart

[Meecrob]

4 hours ago, Periple said:

Continuously complaining about it

Give me $50 worth of entertainment and I wont. Simple. This EA is not on track...or what did they say? Velocity is good? To a turtle maybe. Don't rip me off and I won't complain. Why is this a "me" problem when the game objectively is not even at pre-release KSP1 levels of features and playability? If they charged like $15 or something, you wouldn't hear a peep out of me.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Meecrob

[The Aziz]

3 hours ago, Kerbart said:

But we can’t because it’s unplayable.

well...

2 hours ago, Meecrob said:

Why is this a "me" problem when the game objectively is not even at pre-release KSP1 levels of features and playability?

If you take out the science part, it's even more than KSP1 was prior to 1.0.

[cocoscacao]

One of the things I am curious about is CPU/GPU utilization. It should be plausible that devs can answer this at least. 

Test came from @ShadowZone

Not that I don't have beefy enough PC to run this thing smoothly, but still... That ain't the point. 

[regex]

15 hours ago, Meecrob said:

This one, however, seems to be in trouble.

From my POV  this perception is largely due to the community actually buying in to hype and also KSP1's novelty, which hid a ton of its flaws (it was a pretty good sandbox and a pretty bad game).

15 hours ago, Meecrob said:

Let me ask you a question; when do you think 1.0 will drop?

Couple of years at least. Hopefully. I'd hate to see them rush it and end up with the utter mess that KSP1 was.

[Alexoff]

16 minutes ago, regex said:

Hopefully. I'd hate to see them rush it and end up with the utter mess that KSP1 was.

And now the creators of KSP2 haven’t made the same mistakes that was made in KSP1? As I noticed, we managed to see something that was not in KSP1 - broken anti-aliasing, spam to the registry, calculation of all parts in the universe. Without any rush

[NH4Cl Enthusiast]

37 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

If you take out the science part, it's even more than KSP1 was prior to 1.0.

Wow, would you care to elaborate a little?

Let's go and compare. I'll start from version 0.21 which I think is pretty close feature wise. I will ignore the parts as 90% of KSP2 parts are just copy-pasted from KSP1 anyway. 0.21 had IVA's btw. Oh, and re-entry effects. But let's not get too picky, I'll just call it even since I can't see 0.20 as similar in features. Let's also compare the update timeline while we're at it. 0.21 was released July 24th 2013.

Then comes 0.22 in October, 3 months later. Adding career mode (missing from ksp2), though it was just science and you did exclude it so I'll give you that.

0.23 come two months later, adding some features that we do have in ksp2, like tweakables and adding science features etc but again it's hard to compare parity head to head.

0.23.5 takes a whopping 3.5 months and comes in April 2014, including asteroid redirect, which btw is also not in ksp2.

0.24 came on July, so three months and adds contracts, funds and reputation. I will yield a little on this as these are features that won't be in ksp2 anyway, but still there was now a functioning career mode, as hacky as it was... There is no cost of any kind to ksp2 rockets.

0.25 in October adds strategies, again not my favorite feature but missing from ksp2. Still, giving a function to admin facility.

We jump to 0.90 with Kerbal experience as one big feature, and this update took 2 months, released in December.

Then we arrive at 1.0 in April 2015, which added among other things resources, again still missing but coming any day now to ksp2.

I'm struggling to find any other features that ksp2 has over ksp 0.21 except tutorials and thrust under time warp which admittedly is a huge one.  But being an open-minded person I'm willing to change my mind in the face of evidence, please do list which features you find in KSP2 that you consider lifting it on-par and beyond 1.0? 

As addendum it's worth to keep in mind that Squad also had nothing to compare to and still managed to push out major feature updates every few months while KSP2 team has taken over 8 months to almost add heating.

I wouldn't compare the development speed even to a turtle. Not even glacial either, those things move more in 8 months than this game. We're somewhere in continental drift territory.

 

[regex]

29 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

And now the creators of KSP2 haven’t made the same mistakes that was made in KSP1?

Science mode will make or break this game for me. That's when I can see whether their design efforts are paying off or whether we're just going to have some half-baked things thrown together to create a semblance of "game".

Everything else is just waiting on bug fixes or "nice to have" features. I'm quite patient when it comes to those things.

[Superfluous J]

5 hours ago, Meecrob said:

Give me $50 worth of entertainment and I wont.

Here's a burger and a single movie ticket.

[The Aziz]

38 minutes ago, NH4Cl Enthusiast said:

Wow, would you care to elaborate a little?

[...]

I have, back in February. Now some things may have taken longer than expected, I admit that "soon" is an extremely vague term. But since the list hasn't changed much aside from a couple of new parts so far, it's still very much up to date.

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by The Aziz

[Bej Kerman]

38 minutes ago, NH4Cl Enthusiast said:

Squad also had nothing to compare to and still managed to push out major feature updates every few months

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