Cadet Orientation???

[The Aziz]

22 minutes ago, Just Jim said:

OK, I can make no promises. This was a group decision, and changing it will also have to be a group decision.
It is already way too late to change anything for 0.2 (a new name would have to be re-localized and all that)
But if this is going to be an issue for some players, then I will bring it up to the team after the Christmas break and see what they think.

Much appreciated.
also isn't this part of why the game landed in EA? To get feedback from users? Well here it is.

19 minutes ago, Spicat said:

For the acronym I think it's just because every other language use an acronym (Maybe Asian languages are different but I don't know the characters):

  Reveal hidden contents

I don't know why exactly, seems a bit weird that only English has this privilege.

Polish ain't an acronym either. What's there now translates literally to "first time". I see now why they want to get rid of the acronyms (although, I'm still not sure why they're there in the first place. Because the full sentence didn't fit in a single line? Well, the answer to that is making the interface more flexible when it comes to adding more text.) But if the workaround to a nonexistent problem means changing the text, then fine, but once more "Cadet training" is much easier to get on first sight, and should translate well.

19 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

*community nitpicks every little thing*
*game never gets finished*
*surprised pikachu face*

Those are your words. You want the game to be good, or fast? I see your only reason to stay in this thread is to attempt to deny our right to give feedback.

 

[Bej Kerman]

2 minutes ago, Spicat said:

An intuition is not really good enough.

Intuition is literally the point, the idea is that you read the label and immediately know what the label is referring to in a general sense, then the explanatory box is there for details.

3 minutes ago, Spicat said:

Also why did you ignore my sentence where I literally say that I would replace "Cadet" by "Beginner"? Isn't it a good proposition? 

Then you might as well also replace "orientation" with "experience".

4 minutes ago, Spicat said:

The message I'm replying to only talk about the "orientation" part.

And to answer you, in my language you won't use first time in there, it would be a bit weird. That's why they translated it to something a bit different. Also cadet is a french word (my language), so I have maybe learned "cadet" before "first time" in english lol (I was pretty bad at it when I was young). 

That's fair but since the English speaking part of the community is the biggest and also the native language of most of the developers, that's how I, and presumably a lot of people, are gonna judge it.

[Spicat]

1 minute ago, Bej Kerman said:

Then you might as well also replace "orientation" with "experience".

"Experience" doesn't really give you what it is (What is the experience of a beginner??). Orientation means that it's orienting you which is what the option does exactly.

"Beginner orientation" or "Beginner guidance" is perfect to me.

[MechBFP]

5 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

Much appreciated.
also isn't this part of why the game landed in EA? To get feedback from users? Well here it is.

Polish ain't an acronym either. What's there now translates literally to "first time". I see now why they want to get rid of the acronyms (although, I'm still not sure why they're there in the first place. Because the full sentence didn't fit in a single line? Well, the answer to that is making the interface more flexible when it comes to adding more text.) But if the workaround to a nonexistent problem means changing the text, then fine, but once more "Cadet training" is much easier to get on first sight, and should translate well.

Those are your words. You want the game to be good, or fast? I see your only reason to stay in this thread is to attempt to deny our right to give feedback.

 

You can give feedback all you want, just be conscientious as to its real impacts. 

[The Aziz]

Just now, MechBFP said:

You can give feedback all you want, just be conscientious as to its real impacts. 

You said earlier the game has bigger fish to fry. Which I of course agree on, but.. for the writing/loc department?

[Bej Kerman]

Just now, Spicat said:

"Experience" doesn't really give you what it is (What is the experience of a beginner??)

Exactly what it says on the tin.

1 minute ago, Spicat said:

Orientation means that it's orienting you

Eh. An option that calls itself "for beginners experiencing the game for the first time" is probably gonna make more sense than an option that says "this setting is gonna orient you". Also, in a space game, orientation has a lot less to do with learning than it does the literal meaning.

[Periple]

38 minutes ago, Spicat said:

Do you think that "Cadet guidance" would be better then? Or "Beginner guidance" like my proposition.

What’s wrong with “tutorials?” That’s what they’re usually called!

[kdaviper]

40 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

"First Time" is a phrase most of the audience learns in primary school, and the sentence immediately following this ("It can also be confused by an easy mode for beginner or something else") demonstrates that the wording did give you an intuition for who the option is aimed at. "Cadet Orientation" is the complete opposite and is composed of words a lot more people might be compelled to google before hazarding any guesses on why it's called that.

I'm curious then, were you learning what words like "cadet" meant before you got round to learning words like "first" and "time"?

Worrying about what non English speaking or esl customers will interpret kinda defeats the whole purpose of localization though doesn't it?

[Spicat]

6 minutes ago, Periple said:

What’s wrong with “tutorials?” That’s what they’re usually called!

Those are two separate entities. You have still access to tutorials without this option.

13 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

Eh. An option that calls itself "for beginners experiencing the game for the first time" is probably gonna make more sense than an option that says "this setting is gonna orient you". Also, in a space game, orientation has a lot less to do with learning than it does the literal meaning.

"for beginners experiencing the game for the first time" doesnt explain what's the option at all, it just say what's the target audience.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Spicat

[Bej Kerman]

1 minute ago, kdaviper said:

Worrying about what non English speaking or esl customers will interpret kinda defeats the whole purpose of localization though doesn't it?

I mean, that's kind of what I was thinking. Why does it matter to the localization department if English sticks with First Time User Experience?

6 minutes ago, Spicat said:

"for beginners experiencing the game for the first time" doesnt explain what's the option at all, it just say what's the target audience.

That's the point. You see the option and then you immediately know who it's aimed at and what you want the explainer box to elaborate on.

[Spicat]

7 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

That's the point. You see the option and then you immediately know who it's aimed at and what you want the explainer box to elaborate on.

The same as "Beginner orientation" then, and with this you also know what it is even without the lateral box.

[Bej Kerman]

Just now, Spicat said:

The same as "Beginner orientation" then, and with this you also know what it is even without the lateral box.

Well you don't because "orientation" is not an intuitive word for a lot of primary English speakers and it's especially more likely to be taken in its most literal meaning of rotating towards something in the context of a game about rockets.

[Spicat]

10 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

Well you don't because "orientation" is not an intuitive word for a lot of primary English speakers and it's especially more likely to be taken in its most literal meaning of rotating towards something in the context of a game about rockets.

You see "beginner orientation" and think that means "rotating a beginner toward something"? That's a big stretch.

Besides I suggested "beginner guidance" as well (I also saw "Beginner helps" that is good enough) which remove your problem but keeping the meaning.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Spicat

[Bej Kerman]

Just now, Spicat said:

You see "beginner orientation" and think that means "rotating a beginner toward something"? That's a big stretch.

No, it leads to "Orientation means rotating towards something, that's a stretch. What the Frack is this option trying to communicate to me?"

On the other hand, I think it's a stretch to think people were confused by "first time user experience". It means literally that. An option if you're experiencing the game now as a first time user.

[Spicat]

Just now, Bej Kerman said:

I think it's a stretch to think people were confused by "first time user experience". It means literally that. An option if you're experiencing the game now as a first time user.

I was

[Bej Kerman]

1 minute ago, Spicat said:

I was

In that case, what exactly was confusing? It told what it was in plain words who it was aiming itself at.

[AtomicTech]

On 11/15/2023 at 10:42 AM, TechieV said:

Hi!

I was doing a "deep-scan" of the For Science! announcement photos (link below), when I found THIS in one of them! (Circled in blue)

Cadet Orientation?

 

What is this supposed to mean? Can you share your thoughts on this? I don't know what this could be, and I would love to hear what everyone thinks!

 

Thanks!
TechieV

 

 

Are we really having a heated discussion about one word?

Damn.

[Spicat]

6 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

In that case, what exactly was confusing? It told what it was in plain words who it was aiming itself at.

I'm beginning to repeat myself: it only says for who it is and not what it does. (Experience seems like there is modification to the game. Like is it a difficulty settings? Have I locked part? ...) There is the lateral box at least, so it's fine. (Well not for other languages sadly)

My proposition give the target audience (like the "FTUS") but also say that's it's an option to guide you.

3 minutes ago, AtomicTech said:

Are we really having a heated discussion about one word?

Damn.

Where is the heat? (Apart from the FS! update lol)

Edited November 17, 2023 by Spicat

[Bej Kerman]

2 minutes ago, Spicat said:

7 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

In that case, what exactly was confusing? It told what it was in plain words who it was aiming itself at.

I'm beginning to repeat myself: it only says for who it is and not what it does.

The word "first time user experience" being next to a toggle implies it's something that enhances the experience for first time users. The word "beginner orientation" being next to a toggle could imply the same, but not without the reader having to iterate through more logical steps thanks to the word "orientation".

3 minutes ago, Spicat said:

My proposition give the target audience (like the "FTUS") but also say that's it's an option to guide you.

I'm saying again that "guide" isn't an immediate synonym of "orientation" so for a lot of readers this is not going to hold true.

KSP 2 is also aiming itself at all audiences (and I recall Nate trialling the tutorial motion graphics with his child(s) to help rate their effectiveness) so it's also probably not too late to note that it's worth thinking about what children are gonna make of "cadet orientation" or "beginner orientation".

[Spicat]

2 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

I'm saying again that "guide" isn't an immediate synonym of "orientation" so for a lot of readers this is not going to hold true.

I was talking about my proposition of "Beginner guidance".

But anyway, most beginner just skip reading options altogether anyway.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Spicat

[Bej Kerman]

13 minutes ago, Spicat said:

(Experience seems like there is modification to the game. Like is it a difficulty settings? Have I locked part? ...)

No clue how "experience" ties into changing the game.

1 minute ago, Spicat said:

I was talking about my proposition of "Beginner guidance".

You know what, that's absolutely good enough.

[MechBFP]

1 hour ago, The Aziz said:

You said earlier the game has bigger fish to fry. Which I of course agree on, but.. for the writing/loc department?

Aren’t lots of parts in the game still missing descriptions in various places? You tell me. 

[Just Jim]

26 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

Aren’t lots of parts in the game still missing descriptions in various places? You tell me. 

Shouldn't be. If there are, can you submit a bug report, please?

[Bej Kerman]

31 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

You tell me. 

Actually, they aren't.

[MechBFP]

22 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

Actually, they aren't.

That is good, I’ll double check as I thought I saw something but I am more than likely pulling outdated memories. In that case assuming all the science stuff is done and rest is on schedule then they can go nuts with this I guess.