KSP2 Roadmap Suggestion, Resource Gathering Before Interstellar? (Please Read And Give Opinions!)

[Presto200]

I wanted to put this out into the community about the next major roadmap updates to see if anyone agrees. Obviously the team has a plan for what features should come when but they have also said they will be flexible based on what the community wants. Perhaps this can be a thread to show what the community wants first.

I am extremely excited for the colonies update and can't wait to see KSP2 finally achieve features that will separate itself from it's predecessor. It is my understanding from interviews and KSP2 development posts that the colonies update really only brings building colonies into the game. The only real purpose they will bring to the game is looking cool and launching vessels from whatever planet/moon you want in the Kerbolar system. That is all fun and good, honestly I would probably have hours of fun with that anyways if development stays on track with the current roadmap; However, this would also mean that the colonies wouldn't get any "True" functionality until after the interstellar update.

Once the colonies update comes we will likely see a large gap between that and the interstellar update sense there is such a large amount of new mechanics and development that will need to go into new solar systems and how to get there. There was a 10 month wait for the first big update of KSP2 "For Science!", I understand that was to fix a lot of bugs on launch so I don't expect Colonies to take as long but I wouldn't expect it in the next 3-4 months. If we estimated an average of 6 months between each update that would mean we could get colonies around June or July, then interstellar around December or January of 2025, and then go back to resource gathering by Jun or July of 2025. Having a whole year between being able to build colonies and being able to utilize colonies in the way that I believe the devs want them to be used seems out of place to me. While I and many others are extremely excited for interstellar, I think we would also appreciate the colonies and their functionality being completely fledged out before going into the next "BIG NEW THING" for KSP2. To me it does not make sense to add construction of colonies, have a gap and add interstellar, then go back and add functionality to colonies.

Another point to make, sadly, is bug fixes. The colonies update will likely have some things to it that the community will have notes on what could be done better, of course these things can be addressed in smaller updates in between colonies and interstellar, but I think it would also be good to have the next big roadmap goal also be connected to colonies, making the focus of the development team "locked in" on getting these parts of the game perfect before moving on. If resource gathering is next on the list from colonies it would also allow them to add big "second thought"/"lesser priority" things to colonies seamlessly in addition to the exploration roadmap goal (similar to how For Science! added reentry heating).

Lastly I would like to talk about integration of the resource gathering and transportation system from interplanetary to interstellar. Resource distribution on this large of a scale seems to me like a hard case to crack, I think there will be some errors in the first version that the becomes publicly available. I would personally rather have those struggles on interplanetary missions rather than interstellar ones in the first implementation of resource gathering. If we switched interstellar and exploration on the roadmap hopefully it would mean that the resource distribution systems can be perfected and easily ported to interstellar. I would rather have headache and be able to look at it as just a problem with the one feature of resource distribution rather than feel like its frustration with interstellar and resource distribution.

Overall I love that the development team has been more open with communication and taking advice from their audience (Thank you for fixing wobbly rockets   ). I do wonder what the rest of the community thinks about this, and if the developers would consider changing such a big decision. Anyways much love to the devs and the community, I'm sure that we will be happy with whatever way development goes but I think it is something to consider. 

 P.S. this could also mean that you could push the second new star system addition to come in the multiplayer update which could be fun to have the first looks of new territory to be with friends. Just a thought!

Edited March 3 by sumghai
Unbolded text, fixed formatting, and reverted to default font

[Skorj]

I don't understand how colonies can have any sort of interesting gameplay without resource gathering.  Already the game suffers from lack of resource constraints (much like KSP1 science mode).  Without resource gathering and resource constraints, how are colonies and interstellar travel going to be anything beyond a bag of parts for sandbox play?

I really hope I'm misunderstanding what that "resource gathering" point is, since it looks like there won't be an actual game until Exploration, just a sandbox and some missions.

[steveman0]

I previously speculated that they were planning to include resources in the colonies update, just not resource gathering. From the recent interview with Nate, it is clear we aren't getting automated resupply missions which makes it very likely that we aren't getting any new resources.

It really isn't clear then what is the purpose of colonies until resource gather is added. You could still launch fuel and deliver it to the colony manually, but this is something Nate expressed they didn't want players to have to grind out. So will colonies just have infinite fuel? If so, this would be quite lame and a pointless feature for another year as estimated.

That said, he also indicated they have some ideas in mind to make them interesting, but I just don't see any solutions that don't involve resources or automated resupply that aren't the grindy repetitive launch missions that he expressed they want to avoid. So my takeaway is that they still aren't 100% clear themselves what the plan is. I hope they'll come around to the idea of adding resources and automated resupply from Kerbin before interstellar if what they had in mind doesn't hold up to internal testing.

[magnemoe]

4 hours ago, Skorj said:

I don't understand how colonies can have any sort of interesting gameplay without resource gathering.  Already the game suffers from lack of resource constraints (much like KSP1 science mode).  Without resource gathering and resource constraints, how are colonies and interstellar travel going to be anything beyond a bag of parts for sandbox play?

I really hope I'm misunderstanding what that "resource gathering" point is, since it looks like there won't be an actual game until Exploration, just a sandbox and some missions.

I agree with you. At least basic ISRU, that is gatering raw materials like ice and co2 and create simpler fuel should come before interstelar. 
This also keep the more low tech chemical and nuclear thermal engines relevant as they are pretty easy to refuel. 

[Presto200]

Maybe if this is something that lots of people agree with then the team can somehow make a wide-scale vote for the audience to choose what comes first. Of course assuming they can make the change without it being a huge problem.

[Apogee-23]

I remember hearing thst colonies will have a lot of systems apart from resource gathering. My guess is that they have do do will Kerbal populations, launching from colonies, and electrical magagement.

[stephensmat]

4 hours ago, magnemoe said:

At least basic ISRU, that is gatering raw materials like ice and co2 and create simpler fuel should come before interstelar. 
This also keep the more low tech chemical and nuclear thermal engines relevant as they are pretty easy to refuel. 

I know I'd settle for the same System we had in KSP1, at least until we get to the point of a whole other 'Chapter' in the Release Schedule. All my plans involved getting to other planets/moons and refueling for the return trip there. The one thing I haven't mastered in KSP2 yet is a two-way mission from any further than Duna.

[Vanamonde]

This discussion of the game's development has been moved to Development Discussions. 

[Lowi_Sace]

The colonies aspect will indeed be very incomplete without resource gathering. I think that the DEVs chose this approach because the resource gathering system is very complex and far from done. The colony part is probably  way further in development then resource gathering. With resource gathering they need to define resources to a certain place for every planet and moon in the game. They also need to get the transport routes working from just surface to orbit to an interstellar scale. I also think de developers just want to get the core colonies and interstellar gameplay working well before expending it.

I am curios how players will be able to build colonies (and launch from them) without resources. Unlimited resources on colonies (like on Kerbin)? Processing raw resources from Kerbin and making parts out of it on location? or maybe with colonies we will get some simple version for gathering resources (like fuel production plants). We will see, it is a lot of speculating now, because we have little information about how colonies will work

[magnemoe]

16 hours ago, stephensmat said:

I know I'd settle for the same System we had in KSP1, at least until we get to the point of a whole other 'Chapter' in the Release Schedule. All my plans involved getting to other planets/moons and refueling for the return trip there. The one thing I haven't mastered in KSP2 yet is a two-way mission from any further than Duna.

I agree, fuel production makes lots of sense at Jool at least and an high ordrer of magnitude more at other stars. But don't make it as easy as in KSP 1, easiest out at Jool and it eat power hard, nuclear reactor drill and water spliter plant would be 20 ton for an low capacity one. 

[Fizzlebop Smith]

I feel that even if this were to gain traction, the developers are going to focus on their vision over community desires. 

I agree whole heartedly with the idea and spirit of this thread.  The game lacks the ability to keep me interested. I want a foundational approach where missions teach you progressive steps.

Where you build mining facilities and orbital transfer/ refuel stations before trying to build a colony on another planet.

 

How am I going to consistently send stuff there without tugs and refuel options?

I am going to be forced to engage with colonies by building obscene lifters each time? Super tiny payloads? That's without interstellar. 

You'll have to launch all refuel from kerbin which will be tedious.

Resources Only make sense to be one step before interstellar. IMO it would be a precursor to any successful *colony* emdeavor.

[stephensmat]

1 hour ago, Fizzlebop Smith said:

How am I going to consistently send stuff there without tugs and refuel options?

 

Nobody says we'll have to. Not yet.

The Orbital VAB is slated for the 'Colonies' expansion. In the full game, with Resources, it would make sense if we had to run supply flights to the Orbiting VAB Station. If we've got the OVAB, without the Resources patch, then it stands to reason it would still serve some function.

What if the Colonies Expansion gives you refueling capacity? A Fuel Station on your colony. The parts will be included. There's only so little functionality you can expect from them.

Remember: The Colonies are intended as ways to get materials. Specific materials. For the long-game. Something we need to fuel up an interstellar ship, or build an interstellar engine. The ultimate Goal was to Colonize the whole system, with the goal of building Interstellar Craft. If was just a matter of getting fuel, you could do that from one colony.

In KSP1, the fuel ore was available anywhere, just a question of how much where you landed. Refuel Time was dependent on that.

I'm HOPING  that in the Colonies update, they'll let us have Fuel Stations and Launch/Landing Pads. Other materials and other resources come later, for later missions/expansions.

They didn't give us a Tech Tree until we had science points. I'm hoping it'll be the same way with the next chapter.

[Fizzlebop Smith]

 

As long as it isn't slapping some more paint on the giant sandbox I'll chalk it up as a win.

Best predictor for the future is often the past. 

Although a sandbox game does technically qualify as a game, it still lacks thebunder pinings of structure that make it fun for me. 

I want to *manage* my agency and so far there is absolutely 0 agency in thag regard. 

If there are aspects of the colonies that are required to progress. I forsee another railroading of the fame material.

You better go here and set this facility up first. Now thag you have set up a solar panel on duna.. it's time for that underwater habitat on Eve!

 

I miss the game thag everyone could play. Thay had a little something for all. No wrong way to play.. take as long or little as needed to unlock the tree.

 

As it stands now you are forced to cherry pick science to complete the missions.

The relationship to science  that truly made it a game is gone. Without resources. I feel interstellar will be the same way.

I want it to have an associated cost. I want to balance things. I want to have endless mission I can "pick and choose" which I wanna do.

It will be there eventually. My honest expectation is 3-5 years fornthe game I really want.

I mean all we got for a one year anniversary was a few videos. I thought surely to God we'd get a mission pack.

[Skorj]

On 3/3/2024 at 10:07 PM, Fizzlebop Smith said:

As long as it isn't slapping some more paint on the giant sandbox I'll chalk it up as a win.

Best predictor for the future is often the past.

Couldn't agree more.  What I expect for colonies, when it comes to ship building, is just a VAB in orbit or a VAB on any surface you like, with still no resource cost to launch rockets, making the game still more sandboxy.  Sure, there may be some additional colony mechanics unrelated to launching rockets, and maybe those will be interesting, but that would take KSP2 ever farther from the challenging orbital mechanics game that I want so badly.

Sure would like to see colony-based resource gathering needed to build rockets off-Kerbin, and a reason to engage with that rather than just building a 300T-payload-to-orbit booster once, and using it mindlessly for every launch.

[Flush Foot]

On 3/2/2024 at 7:58 PM, steveman0 said:

That said, he also indicated they have some ideas in mind to make them interesting, but I just don't see any solutions that don't involve resources or automated resupply that aren't the grindy repetitive launch missions that he expressed they want to avoid. So my takeaway is that they still aren't 100% clear themselves what the plan is. I hope they'll come around to the idea of adding resources and automated resupply from Kerbin before interstellar if what they had in mind doesn't hold up to internal testing.

If I had to guess what they’ll do before Exploration/Resources, I’d say ‘certain parts generate resources over time’, so having more of / bigger ‘things’ on your colony allow you to launch / fuel things more frequently (though I do also know this can be ‘bypassed’ via TimeWarp, but doing so could also affect ideal transfer-windows, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[stephensmat]

8 minutes ago, Flush Foot said:

If I had to guess what they’ll do before Exploration/Resources, I’d say ‘certain parts generate resources over time’, so having more of / bigger ‘things’ on your colony allow you to launch / fuel things more frequently.

That's what I'm hoping for as well.

It would justify Colonies before Resources, if your Colonies could produce fuel/parts in the 0.3 update, and then 'overhaul' the system so that it suddenly has productivity bonuses/demerits when you set up in 'Resource Rich/Poor' areas later on.

[Lowi_Sace]

This interview with Nate at 31:40 gives everything we know about this topic sofar. They say they have a solution to make the colonies experience interesting before the arriving of the recource system. But no automated routes at colonies.  

 

[magnemoe]

One very interesting thing about orbital stations is that it looks like an excellent way to edit ships. Dock to station and go to edit, now add the RCS, batteries and antenna you forgot  

I assume we will get an resource like extraplanetary launchpad's rocket parts who is used to build stations and colonies. This will need to be transported from Kerbin until we get resources and can produce this. You will have to either ship this or raw materials to an orbital station anyway. 
 

[Flush Foot]

6 hours ago, magnemoe said:

One very interesting thing about orbital stations is that it looks like an excellent way to edit ships. Dock to station and go to edit, now add the RCS, batteries and antenna you forgot  

I assume we will get a resource like extraplanetary launchpad's rocket parts who is used to build stations and colonies. This will need to be transported from Kerbin until we get resources and can produce this. You will have to either ship this or raw materials to an orbital station anyway. 
 

Huh… I hadn’t even considered a “repair yard” functionality! Would it actually be ‘dock and edit’ or ‘recover and relaunch’ though?

[Presto200]

9 hours ago, Lowi_Sace said:

This interview with Nate at 31:40 gives everything we know about this topic sofar. They say they have a solution to make the colonies experience interesting before the arriving of the recource system. But no automated routes at colonies. 

I think this is great, I am hoping that colonies will be fun when it happens. I'm sure I'll have fun with them even if it is just build them and launch from them like a sandbox. I am suggesting that they bring resources and automated resource deliveries in the next major update rather than going to interstellar beforehand.

[Presto200]

9 hours ago, magnemoe said:

One very interesting thing about orbital stations is that it looks like an excellent way to edit ships. Dock to station and go to edit, now add the RCS, batteries and antenna you forgot  

This is a great idea! I also have not thought about mid-flight editing using this feature, I hope that is a feature of the orbital shipyards in the colonies update.

[magnemoe]

18 minutes ago, Presto200 said:

This is a great idea! I also have not thought about mid-flight editing using this feature, I hope that is a feature of the orbital shipyards in the colonies update.

Agree, now I expect the station core, thing who differentiate it from an ship is heavy, say 100 ton but its definitely something I would send to Jool asap. 
I expect the orbital stuff is easier than the ground bases actually as its the VAB but in space, think entering build mode in other games. 
Make me wonder if we can break stuff down into resources again? 

Played a lot with extraplanetary launchpads and OSE Workshop in KSP 1. 
And I agree that simple ISRU should come before interstellar. But some might make an resource mod like we had that resource mod from early in KSP 1. 

2 hours ago, Flush Foot said:

Huh… I hadn’t even considered a “repair yard” functionality! Would it actually be ‘dock and edit’ or ‘recover and relaunch’ though?

I say it would be much much harder to lock it out than let us do it. Everything docked to an ship is part of it. 
And why, it makes sense and add lots to gameplay and is realistic. 

[Jaypeg]

Orbital surveys for recourses and etc will come with resources apparently.

[Presto200]

On 3/2/2024 at 2:23 PM, Presto200 said:

I wanted to put this out into the community about the next major roadmap updates to see if anyone agrees. Obviously the team has a plan for what features should come when but they have also said they will be flexible based on what the community wants. Perhaps this can be a thread to show what the community wants first.

I am extremely excited for the colonies update and can't wait to see KSP2 finally achieve features that will separate itself from it's predecessor. It is my understanding from interviews and KSP2 development posts that the colonies update really only brings building colonies into the game. The only real purpose they will bring to the game is looking cool and launching vessels from whatever planet/moon you want in the Kerbolar system. That is all fun and good, honestly I would probably have hours of fun with that anyways if development stays on track with the current roadmap; However, this would also mean that the colonies wouldn't get any "True" functionality until after the interstellar update.

Once the colonies update comes we will likely see a large gap between that and the interstellar update sense there is such a large amount of new mechanics and development that will need to go into new solar systems and how to get there. There was a 10 month wait for the first big update of KSP2 "For Science!", I understand that was to fix a lot of bugs on launch so I don't expect Colonies to take as long but I wouldn't expect it in the next 3-4 months. If we estimated an average of 6 months between each update that would mean we could get colonies around June or July, then interstellar around December or January of 2025, and then go back to resource gathering by Jun or July of 2025. Having a whole year between being able to build colonies and being able to utilize colonies in the way that I believe the devs want them to be used seems out of place to me. While I and many others are extremely excited for interstellar, I think we would also appreciate the colonies and their functionality being completely fledged out before going into the next "BIG NEW THING" for KSP2. To me it does not make sense to add construction of colonies, have a gap and add interstellar, then go back and add functionality to colonies.

Another point to make, sadly, is bug fixes. The colonies update will likely have some things to it that the community will have notes on what could be done better, of course these things can be addressed in smaller updates in between colonies and interstellar, but I think it would also be good to have the next big roadmap goal also be connected to colonies, making the focus of the development team "locked in" on getting these parts of the game perfect before moving on. If resource gathering is next on the list from colonies it would also allow them to add big "second thought"/"lesser priority" things to colonies seamlessly in addition to the exploration roadmap goal (similar to how For Science! added reentry heating).

Lastly I would like to talk about integration of the resource gathering and transportation system from interplanetary to interstellar. Resource distribution on this large of a scale seems to me like a hard case to crack, I think there will be some errors in the first version that the becomes publicly available. I would personally rather have those struggles on interplanetary missions rather than interstellar ones in the first implementation of resource gathering. If we switched interstellar and exploration on the roadmap hopefully it would mean that the resource distribution systems can be perfected and easily ported to interstellar. I would rather have headache and be able to look at it as just a problem with the one feature of resource distribution rather than feel like its frustration with interstellar and resource distribution.

Overall I love that the development team has been more open with communication and taking advice from their audience (Thank you for fixing wobbly rockets   ). I do wonder what the rest of the community thinks about this, and if the developers would consider changing such a big decision. Anyways much love to the devs and the community, I'm sure that we will be happy with whatever way development goes but I think it is something to consider. 

 P.S. this could also mean that you could push the second new star system addition to come in the multiplayer update which could be fun to have the first looks of new territory to be with friends. Just a thought!

Reviving this thread because talks about the colonies update brings this up again. Please interact if you agree or disagree to the original post so maybe the developers can respond if they would consider this or not

[Kalessin1]

I agree!