Refund

[NexusHelium]

On 5/30/2024 at 9:36 AM, Scarecrow71 said:

Heck, I may just keep the game regardless, if only as a warning to myself to not get involved in EA games ever again.  It's a $50 lesson I shouldn't have had to deal with, but if I learned my lesson then that $50 was well-spent.

Oh come on. You can admit you enjoyed the game to some degree. And/or some optimism has been rubbed off on you  

More seriously though. For me it’s basically the same at this point. I have no idea where the game is going and I have no idea where I lie on the optimism vs. pessimism scale. Just gonna wait for the worst and reeeaaalllyyy hope for the best I suppose. My hope has never been blinded from “reality” in my opinion but I guess my thoughts on the matter could be described as closer to said reality. 

Even in the most silent of times, NexusHopium prevails to some degree, even if it is more to remain patient and less to hope for something good.

Edited May 31 by NexusHelium

[Vanamonde]

Seek a refund or don't, but either way please don't attack each other over it. 

 

Cranky comments removed. 

[GigFiz]

11 hours ago, Uuky said:

No it doesn't depend on the context. You'll never know if you can spend the cash.  

 

While it's true that 100% sure bets are not common, that is simply incorrect: you can absolutely gauge the riskiness of a EA purchase. I've only bought 3 EA games that I can think of, and KSP2 was the only dud (It was also the only one I bought on hope, which says something about risky ways to judge whether to buy something EA, too). Satisfactory spent a long time in EA, but it's hitting 1.0 this year, and I bought it at a point where I was already happy with what was there, so I got my value out of it regardless. Hades 2 I bought the day it hit EA, sight unseen, as I always planned, and I am completely glad I did, and would willingly do it again with anything Supergiant makes, given their track record. If there is a paragon of doing EA right (it launched with more content than all of Hades 1, and was almost as polished already, and the first patch took 10 days), and a sure bet any time, it's them.

[Fizzlebop Smith]

17 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

And getting a refund stops it from being a reminder? That's a really weird principle.

Do you fail to see how having a constant visual reminder could reinforce the lesson?

No one principle was established..

No from this point forward i will always keep excrementsty games as a testament

It wasn't stated the title was being kept on principle.

Were you purposefully being obtuse?

I am keeping the title as well.. as a reminder of how a AAA company can wreck excrements. A reminder tp look for developer communication chains before leaping into EA. 

I cannot even tell you the last 5 games I refunded and uninstalled.. "out of sight out of mind" is an idom wher I am from.

This alone would be enough to explain the situation to the library children i read to. I would probably refrain from trying to articulate to them, intangible element like emotional attatchment.

I sensed Scarecrow was engaging with the community and seeking to commiserate an experience. Still wondering what engagement you are seeking.

 

 

[Bej Kerman]

Just now, Fizzlebop Smith said:

Do you fail to see how having a constant visual reminder could reinforce the lesson?

No one principle was established..

No from this point forward i will always keep excrementsty games as a testament

It wasn't stated the title was being kept on principle.

Were you purposefully being obtuse?

I am keeping the title as well.. as a reminder of how a AAA company can wreck excrements. A reminder tp look for developer communication chains before leaping into EA. 

I cannot even tell you the last 5 games I refunded and uninstalled.. "out of sight out of mind" is an idom wher I am from.

This alone would be enough to explain the situation to the library children i read to. I would probably refrain from trying to articulate to them, intangible element like emotional attatchment.

I sensed Scarecrow was engaging with the community and seeking to commiserate an experience. Still wondering what engagement you are seeking.

If you don't like a game and have no *real* reason to keep it *and* you require a constant visual reminder else you completely forget your stance on AAA early access,  then maybe just use a post-it note?

[Fizzlebop Smith]

Just now, Bej Kerman said:

If you don't like a game and have no *real* reason to keep it *and* you require a constant visual reminder else you completely forget your stance on AAA early access,  then maybe just use a post-it note?

No meaningful exchanges with the community, got it.

[Uuky]

22 hours ago, PDCWolf said:

As I told someone else, that's the wrong lesson to learn. First off, it is a good lesson to stay away from big publishers engaging in EA, I'm pretty sure when I say there hasn't been a single successful AAA early access project.

On the other hand, most indie EAs are successful or at least reach a "maybe worth the money" point. However, you are required to be attentive, and not be positive. Positivity adds nothing. The people making a good job know they're doing it and don't need it, and the people lying to your face will feed off of it to lie more, and use it as a basis to ask for more money and more time.

I respectfully disagree. You're doing survivorship biais. 

Some games end really well their EA Experience. Some.  80% EAs are never leaving the EA status. Even if the developer has the best intentions at hearts (and the very vast majority have) EA games will be abandonned when the developper estimates it isn't worth it. Free of charge.

So if you want to spent your bucks on 1/5 probability of success, you're free.

 

[PDCWolf]

1 minute ago, Uuky said:

80% EAs are never leaving the EA status.

Source?

I'm definitely only talking about EA projects I've participated in... which is why I highlight the need to be attentive and objective, and not just huff hopium.

[Fizzlebop Smith]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317570653_An_Empirical_Study_of_Early_Access_Games_on_the_Steam_Platform/link/5943f5ae0f7e9b6910ee26af/download

 

34-50% depending on the year. 

Though the evaluations are not mined to determine percent leaving EA.. plus the time various titles utilize the program may vary.. it does touch on it..

( I could have misunderstood this kind of analysis isn't my forte)

I also have had a way better success rate than that prediction would suggest. 

Edited June 1 by Fizzlebop Smith

[Bej Kerman]

4 hours ago, Fizzlebop Smith said:

No meaningful exchanges with the community, got it.

Your point being...?

[Fizzlebop Smith]

Did you hear the joke about a broken pencil? 
Oh well, it didn't have a point.

[Stephensan]

drink water moment truly caught someone lacking drinking water.

[Bej Kerman]

2 hours ago, Fizzlebop Smith said:

Did you hear the joke about a broken pencil? 
Oh well, it didn't have a point.

You don't have a point? Lol okay

[NexusHelium]

7 hours ago, Stephensan said:

drink water moment truly caught someone lacking drinking water.

Uh... hold on I gotta do something not at all related to consuming a certain bond between hydrogen and oxygen real quick

[lrd.Helmet]

On 5/30/2024 at 11:08 PM, Fizzlebop Smith said:

You should check out KSP2 EA store page.. the read more section where each developers tells potential consumers more specifically what can be expected during EA.

Things like dedication to communication where they look forward to interacting with community and exploring feedback?

Some people are more upset about the misrepresentation and damage to commun trust than a failed launch.

Lies are bad mmmkay

 

Where do they say that? I can't find it anywhere on the store page.

Irregardless, they can still make the case that they did have enough communication and interaction, whatever we might feel about it.

[Fizzlebop Smith]

On 6/3/2024 at 2:04 AM, lrd.Helmet said:

Where do they say that? I can't find it anywhere on the store page.

Irregardless, they can still make the case that they did have enough communication and interaction, whatever we might feel about it.

 

Spoiler

Why Early Access?
[Snip]
We believe that going through early access for KSP2 will ultimately allow us to build a better game through a supportive dialogue with our community.”

Approximately how long will this game be in Early Access?
[Snip]

How is the full version planned to differ from the Early Access version?

[Snip]

How are you planning on involving the Community in your development process?

“Your feedback will be crucial in helping to make KSP 2 the best it can be, and we want to hear about everything that is important to you. Are the tutorials effective and are there enough of them? Have the user interface changes made a meaningful impact? Is the localization accurate?

Most importantly, we want players to play for thousands of hours. What will keep you playing? During Early Access there will be a form on the KSP website to submit detailed feedback. It can also be accessed from the game’s launcher and the Steam page.

You can follow the development progress through our various social channels: the KSP subreddit, the official KSP forums, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok and Facebook.

Every Developer fills out an Early Access Q&A

Look for "Why Early Access" on Store Page

A portion of EA policy requires that  communications are supposed to align across all media platforms & are also considered official commitments to the community.

It allows for a really great argument for refund. Take a couple screen shots of release schedule of KERB report, CM making repeat commitments geared toward increase general communications & actual release schedule of communication

Couple Screenshots of comments from CM like "sorry" or "we know we are letting you down"

I know of at least one refund with 20-30 hours of play time.

They made the simple argument that the developers failed to honor commitments set forth in their various answer to that EA Q&A. Also provided a series of screenshot with highlighting.

By getting a human to "review the ticket"

Seems like PCDwolfs advice was sound. However, I also have talked to at least a dozen on social platforms claiming to have had repeat failure.

 

[Madeline]

Yall ain't getting refunds. Take2 doesn't care, and steam doesn't refund past 2 weeks and 2 hours of play time.

[Tony Tony Chopper]

3 hours ago, Madeline said:

Yall ain't getting refunds. Take2 doesn't care, and steam doesn't refund past 2 weeks and 2 hours of play time.

Probably right, but you're wrong with your latter statement. Steam does refund despite the standard rules if certain circumstances are allowing it. Albeit It may depend on your initiative it's only a matter of the legal situation whether you get your refund or not. Steam will have to follow the laws. Willingly or not.

[Uuky]

 

14 hours ago, Tony Tony Chopper said:

Probably right, but you're wrong with your latter statement. Steam does refund despite the standard rules if certain circumstances are allowing it. Albeit It may depend on your initiative it's only a matter of the legal situation whether you get your refund or not. Steam will have to follow the laws. Willingly or not.

 Yep, Steam can refund if there isn't "too much" play time.  Problem being games like KSP are time consuming, especially when buggy. Support is however completely useless when it comes to legal arguments.

Steam midly care about laws. It took 'em 5 years to be more or less compliant with EU refund obligations.  More or less because there is a few things they breach and they voluntarily makes false statements but price of games do not justify to file complaint.  I think a bit of regulation and enforcement wouldn't hurt.  

 

[aceman67]

I attempted to get a refund today and was denied due to it not being in the two-week window, despite only having 55min playtime.
I did put in the reasoning that I did not get what I paid for and wasn't going to get what I paid for now that the studio had been closed.