Could we sue Take2?

[Lisias]

5 minutes ago, Observe said:

Be that as it may. I don't know about you, but when I read "early access", I understand that IF the game ever releases, it may not resemble the full extent of early plans or visions. KSP2 was arguably still in the Alpha stage of development. As such, it was subject to cancellation. I'm not talking legalities. The whole business of unpaid testers (early access) should a violation of employment laws. Now that's something I might get behind.

I understand your point, but your argument is intrinsically flawed when you say "I'm not talking legalities".

Heck, lawsuits are all about legalities.

Even on Common Law judicial systems there's the concept of higher laws overruling lower ones. The FTC overrules all commercial contracts they find abusive, point. It's the very reason the FTC exists.

[Observe]

6 minutes ago, Lisias said:

I understand your point, but your argument is intrinsically flawed when you say "I'm not talking legalities".

It happens that I deleted that particular sentence mere seconds before you posted. Point taken in advance.

Edited June 16 by Observe

[mcdjfp]

The biggest issue I see are the images labeled Beta Capture, implying that the game was in a certain state when it clearly was not.

[Lisias]

2 hours ago, mcdjfp said:

The biggest issue I see are the images labeled Beta Capture, implying that the game was in a certain state when it clearly was not.

IMHO that labels are effectively preventing them from get into yet hotter waters. I think they may walk on a FTC lawsuit (may, not will - there's a chance they may lose, besides IMHO is not that encouraging) exactly because besides implicitly telling people to buy KSP2 because it was going to have a lot of things they are not going to get anymore, all footage at that time made clear everything was in pretty early stages of development - caveat emptor.

IMHO they had drawn themselves into a corner after the launching. From that point, they were effectively delivering a bad service (check the EULA, KSP2 is not a product), and so they may be held responsible on that terms by the FTC - on USA and Common Law countries, where Contracts are "Law between the parts".

On Roman Law countries, I think they are pretty screwed because Contracts there are "civil agreements" 100% subject to regulatory laws. And the Contract says the magic word "service", so they are automatically subject to the Services legislation, and that's it. I think this is the reason the Europeans are getting refunds more easily, by the way.

Edited June 16 by Lisias
Entertaining grammars made slightely less entertaining...

[GGG-GoodGuyGreg]

I also took the liberty of contacting a lawyer, he says we have a case and he’s willing to negotiate the retainer.

[Fizzlebop Smith]

59 minutes ago, GGG-GoodGuyGreg said:

I also took the liberty of contacting a lawyer, he says we have a case and he’s willing to negotiate the retainer.

I once had a situation where the lawyer had called to inform me that my retainer was used and that more funded were needed... this was before I had returned home from delivering more funds. (Had to sign some things as well)

I lost my excrements... it was a mistake where someone had transposed a number on the billables & everybody was *terribly* sorry.  It made me view future interactions in a different light & made me question validity of accounts. My perceptions may have been in err.. but I kept picturing this scene.

I used a different firm for future civil matters

 

--- Unintended Merge Magic ---

It would all boil down to internal communications. Whether they planned to shelve the studio BEFORE pushing to release into EA.

That would be a case for fraud. Unless a whistleblower provides those documents .. there will be no case.

Little people cannot afford to battle it out while this stretched interminably..

Big people would not want to risk possible retaliatory defamation counter suits. Should a judgement fund in favor of Take Two. they could point to stock fluctuations as being casual to the "meritless" case.

I could care less about TT getting sued... but would LOVE to see any of those documents. Merely so I could know if my biases opinion of Nate is warranted.

I'm usually a decent judge of people character and would just like to KNOW If I'm on point or just a dick.

Edited June 16 by Fizzlebop Smith

[dprostock]

2021 :

It was said that this smelled like a scam.

And the moderators came out to defend the business tooth and nail, suspending and silencing those of us who realized what was happening.

Now, three years later, are they all looking at how to recover the $50 they gave up after refusing to see where it ended?

In 2023 they knew that everything was over and sold something to recover part of the investment, knowing that the "believers" and moderators would defend them by allowing them to recover part of the investment. 

I don't want to imagine if they had surpassed the line of 100000 buyers they had in mind on the first day, what they would still be selling!

A DLC without having corrected the previous problems and with Colonies?  

Why solve the issue of multiple cores that a current computer has if fans continue to buy the product as is?

 Worst of all, the people who participated in the disaster since 2019 will find a way to make money again at the expense of the fans of some new and mediocre product. 
 
 
 
 

[Superfluous J]

46 minutes ago, dprostock said:

And the moderators came out to defend the business tooth and nail

They. Did. Not.

They moderated people who were yelling and screaming and frothing at the mouth.

You've always been able to talk bad about the game and the developers. The problem comes when anybody disagrees with you and you freak out.

[AstroWolfie]

Take2 watching us:

 

[RedRacer]

My question is who is going to continue to pay for hosting the forums? 

[Lisias]

On 6/29/2024 at 3:13 PM, RedRacer said:

My question is who is going to continue to pay for hosting the forums? 

Excellent question.

Right now, this is going to be our major concern - there's a whole ecosystem (not only Forum) that needs money to keep ongoing, and we don't know where this money will come from.

You know, who foots the bill is the one that will call the shots. This is not necessarily evil, but it's not necessarily good neither - uncertainty is a Sun in our Beach.

p.s.: I'm afraid that, perhaps, Curseforge would be the only reliable source of mods in a couple years...

[PDCWolf]

6 hours ago, Lisias said:

Excellent question.

Right now, this is going to be our major concern - there's a whole ecosystem (not only Forum) that needs money to keep ongoing, and we don't know where this money will come from.

You know, who foots the bill is the one that will call the shots. This is not necessarily evil, but it's not necessarily good neither - uncertainty is a Sun in our Beach.

p.s.: I'm afraid that, perhaps, Curseforge would be the only reliable source of mods in a couple years...

The problem is a bit bigger than money, Dakota was doing a good job of shaping the moderation and discourse around the game... now there's no one on top. We have a beautiful poll expressing how 75% of active people want the KSP2 section gone... and since Dakota's firing got effective, it got completely ignored.

[Lisias]

6 hours ago, PDCWolf said:

The problem is a bit bigger than money, Dakota was doing a good job of shaping the moderation and discourse around the game... now there's no one on top. We have a beautiful poll expressing how 75% of active people want the KSP2 section gone... and since Dakota's firing got effective, it got completely ignored.

IMHO they are intimately related.

If there's no one on top, there's a really high probability of having no one paying bills around here, and so we are flying on fumes.

Who pays the bill call the shots. If there's no one calling the shots...

[Hi_123]

13 hours ago, Lisias said:

I'm afraid that, perhaps, Curseforge would be the only reliable source of mods in a couple years...

Please no 

[Lisias]

10 minutes ago, Hi_123 said:

14 hours ago, Lisias said:

I'm afraid that, perhaps, Curseforge would be the only reliable source of mods in a couple years...

Please no 

Capitalism sucks, but the alternatives suck more. They have a successful business plan (at least, successful enough to had survived all the Studios that were ever involved in KSP development, I suggest to respect at least that).

They inspect the packages for known malwares before publishing the zips also, they have a proactive curation of the library - something that we are lacking right now on the current alternatives. And this is really worrying me given the current International Relations in this Pale Blue Dot.

I understand their business model distastes some people (advertising is not my favorite entertainment media, to be honest), but - and again - someone needs to pay for this party.

There's no free lunch.

 

 

Edited July 2 by Lisias
Danm! Tyops erevytime!!

[AVaughan]

17 hours ago, Lisias said:

I'm afraid that, perhaps, Curseforge would be the only reliable source of mods in a couple years...

 

3 hours ago, Hi_123 said:

Please no 

I imagine ckan will still exist.  It will likely still get updates if mods get updated.

 

[Lisias]

52 minutes ago, AVaughan said:

I imagine ckan will still exist.  It will likely still get updates if mods get updated.

You see, they are part of the ecosystem I mentioned above, and they have expenses too.

I remember someone on their github mentioning they had paid for one more year of a license for a software the project uses before leaving. Someone has to pay for this party.

[Jacke]

As I've mentioned before, there's also the many KSP-oriented Discords many of us are members of.

If these forums go away--with or without warning--then go check those Discords to find out what's being discussed.  Lacking these forums would mean that the Community could create a replacement.