[1.12.5] Gradual Progression Tech Tree - A mod-focused, slower early game tech tree (0.3.1)

[loki130]

5 hours ago, Pxtseryu said:

 

Out of curiosity, what settings do you run for your careers? I typically run at reduced science (30-50%), and am running at 40% in my save, so it'd be neat to know what the baseline is for your testing so I'm not shooting myself in the foot 

also; no idea if this'll jibe but the placement of the ranger rough lander behind a 350 science node feels weird, might fit better in the surface probes node for the sake of progression though i completely understand if it's based around how overpowered seismic science can be point wise

I've been testing at regular 100% return but I'm also not terribly meticulous about picking up all the available science around kerbin and whatnot, and my main test run was on Efil in 2.5x Kcalbeloh so isn't a perfect match for something more stock.

And yeah a lot of BDB probes are placed based on their science parts, one of these days I might see how hard it would be to patch in extra upgrades for these multi-function parts so the base parts can unlock earlier.

[loki130]

Version 0.3.1

github

Changelog:

- Added mod support:
    - Apoapsis Motors: a few more early kick motors
    - B9 Aerospace: distributed mostly in airframes even if they have LFO, not the easiest fit but they're in there
    - Commonwealth Rockets: some decent midgame engines
    - Commonwealth Aeronautics: mostly in supersonic flight
    - Coriolis Space Systems: centrifuges go in robotics, bit early but it's fine given they don't seem to have any life support function.
    - Eisenhower Aeronautics: nice to have some more methalox
    - Interkosmos: finally another exooceanography part
    - KARE: good to fill out the nuke jet techs some more
    - KODS: more methane
    - Moldavite: seem to fit well enough, all the algae and bioreactors go in the last ag tech
    - ORANGES
    - Periapsis Motors
    - Remotetech: placed the extra antennas, will need to look into upgrades another time
    - Rocket Motor Menagerie: Mostly dumped in the end cryogenics techs, but some nice variety I suppose.
    - Stockalike Mining Extension: Not certain if they work right, but added them all in and made an extra tech for mass drivers
    - Tea Kettle RCS: go in advanced solid NTRs
    - USI collection: all the ones I could find:
        - ART: also uses the new mass driver tech
        - Core: already in main MKS pack
        - Exploration: a nice use of the ocean exploration tech
        - FTT
        - Konstruction: I think it's included in main MKS now but double-checked anyway
        - Nuclear Rockets: includes another option for Nuclear Pulse Propulsion
        - Survivability: might be redundant with exploration? idk
        - Warp Drive: another option for the endgame FTL tech
- Balance/tweaks:
    - Moved 10m heat shield to Expanded Inflatable Habitats
    - Shifted around a lot of node placement on the left side of the tree to make clearer branches (purely cosmetic)

 

Figured I'd mop up as many of these as I could because I'll probably be busy with other stuff a while, but I'll tackle kerbalism eventually, and maybe even KSP-IE (dunno if I'll ever do pathfinder, it looks like a lot, but it's on the list).

[DareMightyThingsJPL]

5 hours ago, loki130 said:

Version 0.3.1

github

Changelog:

- Added mod support:
    - Apoapsis Motors: a few more early kick motors
    - B9 Aerospace: distributed mostly in airframes even if they have LFO, not the easiest fit but they're in there
    - Commonwealth Rockets: some decent midgame engines
    - Commonwealth Aeronautics: mostly in supersonic flight
    - Coriolis Space Systems: centrifuges go in robotics, bit early but it's fine given they don't seem to have any life support function.
    - Eisenhower Aeronautics: nice to have some more methalox
    - Interkosmos: finally another exooceanography part
    - KARE: good to fill out the nuke jet techs some more
    - KODS: more methane
    - Moldavite: seem to fit well enough, all the algae and bioreactors go in the last ag tech
    - ORANGES
    - Periapsis Motors
    - Remotetech: placed the extra antennas, will need to look into upgrades another time
    - Rocket Motor Menagerie: Mostly dumped in the end cryogenics techs, but some nice variety I suppose.
    - Stockalike Mining Extension: Not certain if they work right, but added them all in and made an extra tech for mass drivers
    - Tea Kettle RCS: go in advanced solid NTRs
    - USI collection: all the ones I could find:
        - ART: also uses the new mass driver tech
        - Core: already in main MKS pack
        - Exploration: a nice use of the ocean exploration tech
        - FTT
        - Konstruction: I think it's included in main MKS now but double-checked anyway
        - Nuclear Rockets: includes another option for Nuclear Pulse Propulsion
        - Survivability: might be redundant with exploration? idk
        - Warp Drive: another option for the endgame FTL tech
- Balance/tweaks:
    - Moved 10m heat shield to Expanded Inflatable Habitats
    - Shifted around a lot of node placement on the left side of the tree to make clearer branches (purely cosmetic)

 

Figured I'd mop up as many of these as I could because I'll probably be busy with other stuff a while, but I'll tackle kerbalism eventually, and maybe even KSP-IE (dunno if I'll ever do pathfinder, it looks like a lot, but it's on the list).

Thanks for the patches. When i saw this mod, I knew that it was just what I needed - Slower tech tree progression, whilst having a more rational approach to research. 

Also an addendum to my earlier request for the 'Cherenkov' NTR added by Restock+ - Turns out i was wrong, it was another NTR duplicate added by the Rational Resources: Nuclear Family patch that used the oxidating agents. The normal Cherenkov is perfectly fine.

(BTW, in RR, each NTR gets duplicated to have an oxidating, and reducing counterpart. The Reducing one is just the original, but the oxidating agent NTR is a new part. Thought this may help in future patches.)

[Pxtseryu]

14 hours ago, loki130 said:

and my main test run was on Efil in 2.5x Kcalbeloh so isn't a perfect match for something more stock.

Yeah fair, having a different experience with KSRSS which basically amounts to running out of science to do very quickly, but in my case I'm basically just using that as a reason to be as incredibly thorough as possible. Also makes using labs much more appealing.

 

I would suggest when you get the chance and want to run another balance pass to give KSRSS/JNSQ a shot as both are closer to what most people would use - only a couple (or just the one) moons in range and not necessarily the means to go farther. 

 

That being said, a few days into my own career save and this is fun as hell. I've been going out of my way to run contracts just to get that little bit of science - feels like a real struggle up the ladder which I'm enjoying a lot.

[Canis_fiddles]

Hey! Really enjoying this tech tree. Been waiting for one like this for a while. 

With the release you put out yesterday I noticed suddenly autostruts aren't working even if you unlock and purchase the struts themselves, this persists even in new saves. They come back in sandbox or if I cheat all technology... but that defeats the purpose of your mod. lol. 

Can't tell at the moment but there might also be a conflict with GAP. It worked before but I cant get the contracts to show after starting a save with this tree, but maybe there are other conflicts. (My save is very mod heavy) 

[DareMightyThingsJPL]

On 1/3/2025 at 3:12 PM, Canis_fiddles said:

With the release you put out yesterday I noticed suddenly autostruts aren't working even if you unlock and purchase the struts themselves, this persists even in new saves. They come back in sandbox or if I cheat all technology... but that defeats the purpose of your mod. lol. 

I can concur, I'm also having this issue.

[Pxtseryu]

Suggestion: A modular launch pads patch. Currently it's all being dumped into lost and found - maybe a blanket patch where it's all put into general construction or its own seperate node might be ideal? Doesn't need to be split up across the tree

[Pxtseryu]

18 hours ago, DareMightyThingsJPL said:

I can concur, I'm also having this issue.

+1, same thing's happening to me. Not as bad with KJR installed but noticable.

First lunar impactor in my save! Been very fun so far. A battery-spam ranger was fun as I haven't unlocked solar panels yet.

[Mitokandria]

Decided to give this a try with only it's hard dependencies, but it isn't possible to progress. Though the game runs there are no parts available to gather the initial science requirements that unlock pods, probes, or cockpits.

Maybe adding instruction to give 5 - 10 starting Science if USI Sounding Rockets is not installed? That should be enough to at least unlock probes or cockpits and allow for collecting of science doing grounded EVA walks.

[Pappystein]

20 hours ago, Mitokandria said:

Decided to give this a try with only it's hard dependencies, but it isn't possible to progress. Though the game runs there are no parts available to gather the initial science requirements that unlock pods, probes, or cockpits.

Maybe adding instruction to give 5 - 10 starting Science if USI Sounding Rockets is not installed? That should be enough to at least unlock probes or cockpits and allow for collecting of science doing grounded EVA walks.

First I love the organization and goal of this tree.  Something I have long wished for!

Even with USI Sounding rockets installed... if you are doing a purly science Career the tree won't work... I had to cheat 10 Science to get things started (the USI Sounding Rockets first science unlocks are after having 1 science already.)

Also a small suggestion beyond moving at least one USI sounding rocket science to start.   Could you please Put some of the "I only have one use with this other group of parts" parts all in the same node.   Specifically the Gambit/Samos return bucket.   You are mid-career before you unlock the heat-shield or return SRM they are well behind the Parachute and actual Return Bucket in terms of science Unlocks.

Edited January 17 by Pappystein

[The Dressian Exploder]

If it's at all possible to launch a craft without any techs then it might be possible without cheating. You do get a very small amount of science for recovering a craft that's flown somewhere.

Edited January 17 by The Dressian Exploder

[Mitokandria]

8 hours ago, The Dressian Exploder said:

If it's at all possible to launch a craft without any techs then it might be possible without cheating. You do get a very small amount of science for recovering a craft that's flown somewhere.

Without USI Sounding Rockets there are no starting rockets, pods, or probes. This means you can't launch a rocket (no rocket parts) and can't EVA to gather KSC science (no pods to put a kerbal at launchpad).
 

It's doable with USI Sounding Rockets on career mode w/ starter contract "Launch a rocket from launch pad". I hadn't thought about science career mode or otherwise not playing with contracts.

Hm...I guess maybe you could get science using a sounding rocket by putting barely any fuel into it and just enough thrust to lift. Then recover it for the tiny amount of science? That might be enough to unlock a parachute for it.

Edited January 17 by Mitokandria

[Fizzlebop Smith]

8 hours ago, The Dressian Exploder said:

If it's at all possible to launch a craft without any techs then it might be possible without cheating. You do get a very small amount of science for recovering a craft that's flown somewhere.

Sonewhere... or somewhere new?

I play career only and have played science in forever or looked at sliders in a bit... but I get 0 science returns even with many missions that don't introduce me to any new biomes.

 

I cried because my PBC probe lost all the instruments on reentry.. I kicked my self in the but bc I chose to go with something other than heat shield right before.

[Pappystein]

On 1/17/2025 at 5:21 PM, Mitokandria said:

Hm...I guess maybe you could get science using a sounding rocket by putting barely any fuel into it and just enough thrust to lift. Then recover it for the tiny amount of science? That might be enough to unlock a parachute for it.

You know, I have been playing is Version 0.18 of KSP.  You would think I would know that!   Just tested, for your first launch that way IF THE ROCKET survives   5 science

[Mitokandria]

On 1/18/2025 at 10:25 PM, Pappystein said:

You know, I have been playing is Version 0.18 of KSP.  You would think I would know that!   Just tested, for your first launch that way IF THE ROCKET survives   5 science

It's a really handy trick when you don't have a parachute unlocked yet.

 

Edit:

Now that I've put about 10 hours into this tech tree I really really like it. Genuinely like it. I can focus on the areas that I need or want based on my gameplay as opposed to focusing on the unimportant stuff for my gameplay or mission just to get to the items I do need.

Edited January 20 by Mitokandria
Edited to try not to double-post

[Pxtseryu]

On 1/20/2025 at 11:21 AM, Mitokandria said:

Now that I've put about 10 hours into this tech tree I really really like it. Genuinely like it. I can focus on the areas that I need or want based on my gameplay as opposed to focusing on the unimportant stuff for my gameplay or mission just to get to the items I do need.

Exactly what I like about it too. I've made some personal balance patches to the tree for my own preference but even with that it's taken me until 1965 in KSRSS to get MOL, and I need it to get science for further missions and lifters beyond the 3.125 lifter class.

In previous saves MOL was a fun distraction I did once. Here it's a necessary part of progression.

Love this tree so much. Looking forward to updates.

[Iapetus7342]

40 minutes ago, Pxtseryu said:

Exactly what I like about it too. I've made some personal balance patches to the tree for my own preference but even with that it's taken me until 1965 in KSRSS to get MOL, and I need it to get science for further missions and lifters beyond the 3.125 lifter class.

In previous saves MOL was a fun distraction I did once. Here it's a necessary part of progression.

Love this tree so much. Looking forward to updates.

That's a pretty cool MOL recreat- WAIT, THE PXTSERYU MADE THIS?

[Pxtseryu]

58 minutes ago, Iapetus7342 said:

THE PXTSERYU MADE THIS?

whar

[Iapetus7342]

1 hour ago, Pxtseryu said:

whar

I got some intense whiplash when i realised that you had an account on the forums! (also i like your works)

Edited Friday at 10:21 PM by Iapetus7342
why can't i type

[Grenartia]

On 1/17/2025 at 4:21 PM, Mitokandria said:

Without USI Sounding Rockets there are no starting rockets, pods, or probes. This means you can't launch a rocket (no rocket parts) and can't EVA to gather KSC science (no pods to put a kerbal at launchpad).
 

It's doable with USI Sounding Rockets on career mode w/ starter contract "Launch a rocket from launch pad". I hadn't thought about science career mode or otherwise not playing with contracts.

Hm...I guess maybe you could get science using a sounding rocket by putting barely any fuel into it and just enough thrust to lift. Then recover it for the tiny amount of science? That might be enough to unlock a parachute for it.

I mean, you can always just use KEI to automatically do KSC science. 

Anyways, does anyone know how well Snacks is handled by this tree?

[loki130]

I'm too busy with other stuff (and seasonally depressed) to work on this much now, but to answer some questions:

• I'm not sure how to change where autostrut unlocks, but I might try to see if there's any way to get the game to read all stock nodes as unlocked despite being hidden and see if that helps
• Rational resources will need another pass at some point but it's low priority
• Probably will do modular launchpads eventually, can't decide if I want to try to preserve the separate techs approach for that or just stick them in existing structural nodes (because I think the main point of the separate techs is to avoid cluttering nodes, but you get plenty of that from bdb alone already so you kinda just have to live with it regardless).
• USI sounding rockets gives you a starting probe core, parachute, and rocket, so should be enough for a couple early launches, and then recovery science return should let you do at least the first science tech, or powered flight and then you can get crew reports. I haven't seen any other mods that can fill the same starting niche of sounding rockets without shifting the balance in a way that then obviates the need for sounding rockets, aside from maybe kerballoons, which also gives you a starting parachute (though I don't remember if it has a starting probe core). So yeah you essentially either need to have sounding rockets or cheat yourself to a couple early starting techs. Flexibility in mod set is not really a major goal for this tech tree.
• Snacks is not yet supported, and I'm not sure it would work too well anyway, I don't think it has broad mod support. Kerbalism support is my next major objective, but we'll have to see how well that works and it may be a while before I can get to that.

[Grenartia]

29 minutes ago, loki130 said:

I'm too busy with other stuff (and seasonally depressed) to work on this much now, but to answer some questions:

• I'm not sure how to change where autostrut unlocks, but I might try to see if there's any way to get the game to read all stock nodes as unlocked despite being hidden and see if that helps
• Rational resources will need another pass at some point but it's low priority
• Probably will do modular launchpads eventually, can't decide if I want to try to preserve the separate techs approach for that or just stick them in existing structural nodes (because I think the main point of the separate techs is to avoid cluttering nodes, but you get plenty of that from bdb alone already so you kinda just have to live with it regardless).
• USI sounding rockets gives you a starting probe core, parachute, and rocket, so should be enough for a couple early launches, and then recovery science return should let you do at least the first science tech, or powered flight and then you can get crew reports. I haven't seen any other mods that can fill the same starting niche of sounding rockets without shifting the balance in a way that then obviates the need for sounding rockets, aside from maybe kerballoons, which also gives you a starting parachute (though I don't remember if it has a starting probe core). So yeah you essentially either need to have sounding rockets or cheat yourself to a couple early starting techs. Flexibility in mod set is not really a major goal for this tech tree.
• Snacks is not yet supported, and I'm not sure it would work too well anyway, I don't think it has broad mod support. Kerbalism support is my next major objective, but we'll have to see how well that works and it may be a while before I can get to that.

Thank you for at least answering anyways (mood on that depression, too). 

Though, I will point out, I've yet to see a popular mod that doesn't support Snacks unless it doesn't interact with life support at all. If anything, it tends to have the broadest support (followed by TAC and USI, with Kerbalism seeming to be the least supported, but I've never used any of them, personally). So most of the mods already supported here also support Snacks (including the Near Future suite, Airplanes Plus, etc). 

[Pxtseryu]

9 hours ago, Grenartia said:

Anyways, does anyone know how well Snacks is handled by this tree?

Snacks is not currently compatible, and GPTT is designed around USI-LS. I strongly reccommend USI-LS as it's widely supported and just as simple as SNACKS (MKS is not included in this and is its own horrific beast)

[bigyihsuan]

On 1/26/2025 at 8:19 AM, loki130 said:

Probably will do modular launchpads eventually, can't decide if I want to try to preserve the separate techs approach for that or just stick them in existing structural nodes (because I think the main point of the separate techs is to avoid cluttering nodes, but you get plenty of that from bdb alone already so you kinda just have to live with it regardless).

I think a new node off of the starting node with a really cheap cost would work. Modular Launch Pads is very much an eyecandy mod, and I think there's no real reason to split all the parts up if it's all eye candy.

[manbearpig44]

As far as I can see the upgrade system as a whole isn't working? Mechjeb is still level 1, no autostruts, but I have all engine types with BDB? 

Does anybody know where to look to see if there is a patch I/we can make for this? The Github is a maze to me.