[WIP] Nert's Dev Thread - Current: various updates

[Plutron]

Did some testing, and found some interesting stuff with the Impulse and Hammertong Engines.
When throttling down to zero at the right moment, the (super awesome) animation will "pause" in the moment of ignition.

Videos on imgur:
https://imgur.com/a/xpReQYw

I was unable to reproduce this with the other pulsed engines, and I didn't have a chance to try this out on the new versions.
Other than that, I haven't been able to discover any bugs, although I mostly fiddle around with the engines.

[Nertea]

14 minutes ago, Plutron said:

Did some testing, and found some interesting stuff with the Impulse and Hammertong Engines.
When throttling down to zero at the right moment, the (super awesome) animation will "pause" in the moment of ignition.

Videos on imgur:
https://imgur.com/a/xpReQYw

I was unable to reproduce this with the other pulsed engines, and I didn't have a chance to try this out on the new versions.
Other than that, I haven't been able to discover any bugs, although I mostly fiddle around with the engines.

This seems to be linked to the fact that they're both multimodal, which is always a pain.

[toric5]

4 hours ago, Nertea said:

FFT 0.9.4: slowly having less bugs to fix every version

• Clarke FFRE can no longer pull fuel from Uranium containers elsewhere on the ship

Should the clark be 'refurbishable' with radioactivestoragecontainer? Im thinking, instead of having to completely replace it when spent, maybye a level 4-5 engineer should be able to refuel it? (for those of us crazy enough to actually run it out of fuel, that is.)

[ssd21345]

ksp 2 delay again, to late 2022 to early 2023, you have  plenty of time to dev fft lol

[Cochies]

Good afternoon.
Can you tell me what logic you use when setting values in the @MODULE[ModuleActiveRadiator]?
I have a couple of radiators not from your mods and they are unlikely to ever get support for SystemHeat. I would like to write patches for them myself in the same style.
(By the way, you probably forgot to write patches for the radiator-surface-25-375 and Heat Exchanger from HeatControl)

And I would also like to ask you: do you plan to use the SystemHeat for reactors from the NearFutureElectrical?

Edited November 6, 2020 by Cochies

[lemon cup]

5 hours ago, ssd21345 said:

ksp 2 delay again, to late 2022 to early 2023, you have  plenty of time to dev fft lol

By the time KSP 2 comes out, KSP 1 will already be on nearly the same level with mods like FFT and Parallax right around the corner, and all of the other awesome mods and planet packs available!

[ra4nd0m]

1 hour ago, Cochies said:

SystemHeat for reactors from the NearFutureElectrical

That is already done.  Make sure to download SystemHeat from the link published in the systemheat thread. In that zip will be an extras folder in  which there are patches that  enables support.

[Cochies]

13 hours ago, ssd21345 said:

ksp 2 delay again, to late 2022 to early 2023, you have  plenty of time to dev fft lol

Here are not those who silently wait for KSP2, but makes KSP 2 here and now.

Edited November 6, 2020 by Cochies

[SpaceFace545]

H

2 hours ago, Cochies said:

Here are not those who silently wait for KSP2, but makes KSP 2 here and now.

Honestly the best option would to get some of the modders, who are honestly a lot better than some devs and then poach a few devs and just make a whole new game.

[Nertea]

14 hours ago, Cochies said:

Good afternoon.
Can you tell me what logic you use when setting values in the @MODULE[ModuleActiveRadiator]?
I have a couple of radiators not from your mods and they are unlikely to ever get support for SystemHeat. I would like to write patches for them myself in the same style.
(By the way, you probably forgot to write patches for the radiator-surface-25-375 and Heat Exchanger from HeatControl)

I think there's actually a "write me" section in that readme for the curved ones...

Configuring radiators is not too hard. You need to figure out surface area and temperature. You should pick surface area by looking at your radiator and seeing how large it is (compare it one of the SH ones, and scale from there). Then you pick maximum temperature, which is determined by the type of radiator you are using. 

• 350K: basic ammonia loop (life support) radiators like on the ISS
• 1000K: The 'high temperature' radiators in Heat Control, which are based more or less on high temp radiators we could feasibly build today.
• 1300K: The 'microchannel' higher tech carbon filament tube radiators that can handle more heat

You can pick whatever you want, of course, but those are the categories I've been running with. Fancier radiators might be higher.

Then you use the stefann-boltzmann law to get the approximate ideal radiation power. That's F = A*sigma* T^4, where

• sigma is the setefann-boltzmann constant, 5.67*10^-8 
• T is the temperature you chose, in K
• A is the area you calculated, in square metres

You then round the answer to a nicer number, and plug the temperature and the flux into the TemperatureCurve:

@MODULE[ModuleActiveRadiator]
  {
    @name = ModuleSystemHeatRadiator
    moduleID = radiator
    // ModuleSystemHeat instance to link to
    systemHeatModuleID = default

    // option: use deterministic temperatures
    // Power radiated per temperature
    temperatureCurve
    {
      key = 0 0
      key = 1000 50
    }
  }
}

An alternate, possibly lower effort, way to do it is to look at a radiator I configured with the same temperature properties and figure out how much bigger or smaller yours is, and copy/scale the values appropriately.

 

So I know yall are sad that KSP2 is delayed so let me provide a small present. A new challenger for the crown of 'biggest, baddest engine'

 

 

 

[NHunter]

@Cochies,  assuming you want the updated radiators (ModuleSystemHeatRadiator) to have same rejection as they used to with ModuleActiveRadiator, you'll need to give them the following curve

// option: use deterministic temperatures
// Power radiated per temperature
temperatureCurve
{
	key = 0 0
	key = TEMP REJECTION
}

with TEMP being max temperature of the radiator and REJECTION being calculated as  maxEnergyTransfer of vanilla ModuleActiveRadiator divided by 50.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like temperature curve will accept variables, so making universal patch doesn't look possible.

----------------------------------------

LOOK AT THE SIZE OF THAT THING!!!

Edited November 6, 2020 by NHunter

[panarchist]

On 11/1/2020 at 9:38 AM, Nertea said:

I know it's shocking that content creators have lives and don't just live to create free stuff.

I think part of the amazement isn't that you HAVE kids, but that you have kids and still have time to DEVELOP things. :-)  I have 2 boys, 5 and 2-1/2, and I barely have time to do anything KSP-related. Or any other game, for that matter. Kudos to you, sir.

Also, these are all amazing, and I'm really enjoying it. Haven't found anything yet that hasn't already been reported, but I'll submit bugs if I run into them before someone else does. Incredible work, thanks for continuing to push this stuff out.

[WarriorSabe]

2 hours ago, Nertea said:

is that one on top a highly-enriched NSWR / LSWR? And is that a VISTA behind it?

[toric5]

7 hours ago, Nertea said:

I think there's actually a "write me" section in that readme for the curved ones...

Configuring radiators is not too hard. You need to figure out surface area and temperature. You should pick surface area by looking at your radiator and seeing how large it is (compare it one of the SH ones, and scale from there). Then you pick maximum temperature, which is determined by the type of radiator you are using. 

• 350K: basic ammonia loop (life support) radiators like on the ISS
• 1000K: The 'high temperature' radiators in Heat Control, which are based more or less on high temp radiators we could feasibly build today.
• 1300K: The 'microchannel' higher tech carbon filament tube radiators that can handle more heat

You can pick whatever you want, of course, but those are the categories I've been running with. Fancier radiators might be higher.

Then you use the stefann-boltzmann law to get the approximate ideal radiation power. That's F = A*sigma* T^4, where

• sigma is the setefann-boltzmann constant, 5.67*10^-8 
• T is the temperature you chose, in K
• A is the area you calculated, in square metres

You then round the answer to a nicer number, and plug the temperature and the flux into the TemperatureCurve:

@MODULE[ModuleActiveRadiator]
  {
    @name = ModuleSystemHeatRadiator
    moduleID = radiator
    // ModuleSystemHeat instance to link to
    systemHeatModuleID = default

    // option: use deterministic temperatures
    // Power radiated per temperature
    temperatureCurve
    {
      key = 0 0
      key = 1000 50
    }
  }
}

An alternate, possibly lower effort, way to do it is to look at a radiator I configured with the same temperature properties and figure out how much bigger or smaller yours is, and copy/scale the values appropriately.

 

So I know yall are sad that KSP2 is delayed so let me provide a small present. A new challenger for the crown of 'biggest, baddest engine'

 

 

 

Is this from the results of the poll? (If I remember correctly it was beam core antimatter...)

[coyotesfrontier]

Some thoughts on balance:

The Ouroboros just sucks, it only has 500 more ISP then its fission counterpart, the Deliverance, while being twice as expensive, producing less thrust, and being unlocked at the very end of the tech tree.

I'm less certain about the following thoughts, but I figured I'd mention them:

Fresnel is outclassed by the Hammertong (which is unlocked earlier), though its thrust in LH2 mode is better then the Hammertong so it does have one advantage

Verne is unlocked in the same node as the Liberator and Emancipator, yet is just so much better than them. It does cost a ton more though.

FFREs have a bit too much ISP, imo.

 

[Starhelperdude]

11 hours ago, Nertea said:

I think there's actually a "write me" section in that readme for the curved ones...

Configuring radiators is not too hard. You need to figure out surface area and temperature. You should pick surface area by looking at your radiator and seeing how large it is (compare it one of the SH ones, and scale from there). Then you pick maximum temperature, which is determined by the type of radiator you are using. 

• 350K: basic ammonia loop (life support) radiators like on the ISS
• 1000K: The 'high temperature' radiators in Heat Control, which are based more or less on high temp radiators we could feasibly build today.
• 1300K: The 'microchannel' higher tech carbon filament tube radiators that can handle more heat

You can pick whatever you want, of course, but those are the categories I've been running with. Fancier radiators might be higher.

Then you use the stefann-boltzmann law to get the approximate ideal radiation power. That's F = A*sigma* T^4, where

• sigma is the setefann-boltzmann constant, 5.67*10^-8 
• T is the temperature you chose, in K
• A is the area you calculated, in square metres

You then round the answer to a nicer number, and plug the temperature and the flux into the TemperatureCurve:

@MODULE[ModuleActiveRadiator]
  {
    @name = ModuleSystemHeatRadiator
    moduleID = radiator
    // ModuleSystemHeat instance to link to
    systemHeatModuleID = default

    // option: use deterministic temperatures
    // Power radiated per temperature
    temperatureCurve
    {
      key = 0 0
      key = 1000 50
    }
  }
}

An alternate, possibly lower effort, way to do it is to look at a radiator I configured with the same temperature properties and figure out how much bigger or smaller yours is, and copy/scale the values appropriately.

 

So I know yall are sad that KSP2 is delayed so let me provide a small present. A new challenger for the crown of 'biggest, baddest engine'

 

 

 

that's a big boi

[WarriorSabe]

3 hours ago, coyotesfrontier said:

FFREs have a bit too much ISP, imo

Or perhaps too much thrust. When talking real physics, FFREs are extremely efficient, beating out most fusion engines, but have a thrust so low it ends up being the limiting factor even on interstellar journeys.

[Cyne]

16 hours ago, Nertea said:

So I know yall are sad that KSP2 is delayed so let me provide a small present. A new challenger for the crown of 'biggest, baddest engine'

I don't know what else to say apart from
Yikes

[JadeOfMaar]

16 hours ago, NHunter said:

with TEMP being max temperature of the radiator and REJECTION being calculated as  maxEnergyTransfer of vanilla ModuleActiveRadiator divided by 50.

It's interesting that you choose to divide by 50 to produce the SystemHeat value you want. According to Nertea's handling of the stock folding radiators, you want to divide by 5 again (or 250 in total). The gray numbers are config values. (Yes I know the medium folding divides by a different amount but it's still really close.) I've followed this trend for OPT parts.

I just learned that Heat Control's radiators may use different scaling. I'll have to update this image and see.

Edited November 7, 2020 by JadeOfMaar

[JadeOfMaar]

Alright, I see where this has been going. Pardon me. My handling of OPT parts (still very WIP) should change appropriately.

Edited November 7, 2020 by JadeOfMaar

[RedParadize]

When Nertea decided to redo FFT because he trough it wasn't looking good enough I was thinking that it was completely unnecessary, it was looking great. But now that I seen and played with the new stuff I think it was worth it. The new exhaust FX look amazing and the heat system is really cool. Make me wish we had a life support system that work the same way.

There is still one obstacle in the way, low trust engine is... unplayable. Who want to accelerate for 18 days right? There was a "on rail" acceleration mod long ago, if I recall correctly it was not working with the engine charge thing. Is there a mod that allow time warp acceleration that work with FFT?

[panarchist]

1 hour ago, RedParadize said:

When Nertea decided to redo FFT because he trough it wasn't looking good enough I was thinking that it was completely unnecessary, it was looking great. But now that I seen and played with the new stuff I think it was worth it. The new exhaust FX look amazing and the heat system is really cool. Make me wish we had a life support system that work the same way.

There is still one obstacle in the way, low trust engine is... unplayable. Who want to accelerate for 18 days right? There was a "on rail" acceleration mod long ago, if I recall correctly it was not working with the engine charge thing. Is there a mod that allow time warp acceleration that work with FFT?

Persistent Thrust.

If Nertea made a LS mod and a parts failure mod, I'd never need to install anyone else's stuff. :-)

[RedParadize]

There is a couple of part failure mod. On my current gameplay I am using Kerbalism. So far I like what it does. Few annoying thing, like part not having this or that feature, I can handle that, but need to restart every time. 

What I was thinking about is having habitat management using Nertea system. Would be really cool is to also have heat, atmosphere and electric management as well (air filter battery accumulator etc...). Building station and long range spacecraft would become much more fun.

[panarchist]

17 minutes ago, RedParadize said:

There is a couple of part failure mod. On my current gameplay I am using Kerbalism. So far I like what it does. Few annoying thing, like part not having this or that feature, I can handle that, but need to restart every time. 

What I was thinking about is having habitat management using Nertea system. Would be really cool is to also have heat, atmosphere and electric management as well (air filter battery accumulator etc...). Building station and long range spacecraft would become much more fun.

Yes, there are at least 6: Kerbalism, BARIS, Dang It!, Oh Scrap!, Kerbal Mechanics, Kerbal Launch Failure, and at least one other that I can't remember. Personally, I use BARIS - but my point is that Nertea's mods end up being prettier, more functional, and less demanding on system resources than most of the alternatives. If Nertea had a reason to create a parts failure mod, I would use it in a heartbeat. Ditto for ECLS.

Electric management is already being done in NFT. System Heat lays all the groundwork necessary to do thermal management for crew spaces - someone will need to build the config files for the parts, but the mechanics are already there, except for the consequences to the crew. No one is currently doing proper atmosphere management, not even Kerbalism. To do proper atmo management you need humidity control, partial pressure of each atmospheric constituent, and a model that treats the air in the compartments separate from the resource containers feeding it. I've thought about it for a LONG time, and have the knowledge to build the logic for a mod like that, but none of the coding skills. Right now the mods that come closest are TAC-LS and Kerbalism - but neither has a particularly realistic simulation of it. I keep switching between TAC-LS and Snacks! - mostly because of Angel-125's recent improvements to Snacks!

Crew thermal management needs basically 2 things - System Heat's mechanics, and something to simulate the effects of background heat input and output. Nertea has stated repeatedly in the System Heat thread that he doesn't intend it to handle background thermal - which I respect, but I'm definitely in the camp that would like to see it simulated SOMEwhere - and maybe that will motivate me to learn how to code better - or to develop something that approximates it through existing converters and methods in KSP or other mods.

Anyway, that's somewhat OT for this thread. I plan on using Persistent Thrust to try out the low-thrust engines in FFT and see if I can send a probe to Cercani or Nova Kirbani or somewhere else far, far, FAR from Kerbin.

[RedParadize]

I would certainly love to have a LS done by Nertea. His stuff is high quality and easy to work with. Problem is, he is only one guy! If I had to define priority (I don't claim to have that prerogative, obviously!) I would say that a persistent trust would be at the top, Nertea almost have a monopoly on low trust electric engine, kind of make sense to have it handled by him. Below that would be a electric system that has separated loops, like his heat management. Then, a LS mod would use a similar loop system for air and else.

The heat management could get a tad more sophisticated, a low temperature loop (habitat) can't really use the same loop as a high (say nuclear) one. Not sure how to format that into something that is easily understood by player trough.

Gonna give a shot at persistent trust mod and see if I can make it work for me. Thanks btw