bigpapabearxx Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I got to nuke engines in 3 flights. NOTE: These points are not exact and they include crew reports ect. 1: Gather surface sample on/around pad 20 science. 2: Minmus Landing 500 science 3: Duna Flyby 1000 science. I think the prices should be higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfluous J Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I agree. Prices should be higher or science gained should be toned down, however if you're flying to Duna in one of your first 3 flights, you may not exactly be a standard player.I'm personally restricting myself to one tech tree upgrade per mission, and possibly more missions before I advance. I'm going to revel in each step intentionally. I also am not gong super crazy with my reports and whatnot (I forgot to put goo on the first ship after getting it), and I still have more science than I need to get the next advancement, by far.I don't think they should cut it crazily, but you shouldn't be able to unlock a new node every single mission indefinitely.That said, for a first implementation I'm very impressed with the whole system. What stuff costs is a tweak. The core concept is a home run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpapabearxx Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 because of the R&D system, i have been doing estimations in my head and on my way back from Duna and Minmus i had about 5-10 units of fuel left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regex Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 You can edit the values per experiment in ScienceDefs.cfg to tone down the science you receive. The values can be decimals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNerdyOne_ Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Obviously anyone who is getting a Duna flyby or Minmus landing in their first 3 flights is an experienced player. The tech tree also needs to account for newer players, who might not even get into orbit in their first 3 flights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FITorion Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 The skill needed is not designed for experienced players. It is designed for new players. Try to remember back when you started this game. Could you have built those rockets and done those flights right off the bat? My bet is no... you couldn't have. Now try to remember that the game isn't finished and soon money will be added. Imagine that the rockets you used to do those flights cost 3 to 4 times more money then you'll have at the time.The difficulty level is just about right to me. It could of course be tweaked here and there but it is certainly not too easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evenger14 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I'm actually struggling to get science, I haven't even been able to leave Kerbin Orbit. Not everyone is a pro-player like you, and making it even harder will simply turn people away from career mode, including me. Why grind and grind and not have any fun when you can do sandbox and have everything at your disposal? A difficulty level (i.e. Easy, Medium, Hard) may be in order though.EDIT: I am enjoying career mode, I just don't think it should be made harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkipSpikowski Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 It might be easy right now, but that is because there is no economy to balance it against and missions to guide it. I'm sure once money plays a major role, it will make it much harder, you know, like in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevoidLight Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 If you think of the early levels of the tech tree as a tutorial, it fixes itself. If you can breeze through the tutorial, you didn't need the tutorial in the first place.It might be easy right now, but that is because there is no economy to balance it against and missions to guide it. I'm sure once money plays a major role, it will make it much harder, you know, like in real life.Also this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtyotJOTJIPAEFVJ Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I really like the new system. Since mechjeb doesn't work in the career mode yet, I've had a nice learning curve to go with the tech levels. It's still pretty quick, but not too much so. I did manage a mun landing and return in the first ten flights, so I wouldn't say that's how a new player is going to do things, but it feels just right to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavens Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) Yeah I think reducing base values, increasing diminishing returns and decreasing the value of sent information compared to retrieved one.I think just implementing a max range on the communications dishes/antennas might also help. Once you get enough power you can just get into orbit/land and spam science, if you had to research better antennas before sending data from mun and farther.What helped me to artificially extend it further is too not overthink things too much, just like actual kerbal science I did all of my flights by trial and error while making at least sure I can return the craft back home.It's definetly a great feature and allows for so much more gameplay to be added besides the sandbox.Edit: As they guy above me mentioned, you've also have to keep in mind the people who are absolutely new to the game and might not even know the other planets/moons exist or how to actually get there.Just an idea that popped into my head, but maybe they could add modified tech trees with increased costs and less/different parts which you can choose from (eg. easy/normal/hard mode with the corresponding tech tree) Edited October 17, 2013 by Heavens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfluous J Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I am pretty experienced (No Duna flyby here but before .22 came out I did for fun fly to Minmus and back - including a landing - with Teir-1 parts). However, all I did on my first flight was slap some SRBs on the side of the regular rocket and fire everything at once. I didn't reach orbit, but I did make it to space. I took a couple crew reports and an EVA report and had enough science for Tier 1. In fact, I had enough to unlock something from tier 2 as well. I didn't min/max. I didn't run all over. I flew straight up and did the typical science stuff they expect you to do.I don't like to shamelessly plug (but I will ) but in my signature is a link to my new KSP Let's Play series. The first vid (the only one up so far) has the mission so you can see what I did.That said, if new players are having troubles I'm totally good with the tree as-is. Maybe some day they'll have easy/normal/hard modes for people like me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigpapabearxx Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 I agree they should add difficulty levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
togfox Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Modders will have different trees with different difficulties and levels of realism soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frizzank Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 A difficulty setting may be in order for more experienced players. I vote for an insane difficulty level where your rocket has a 10% chance of exploding on the pad, and no revert to save function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
togfox Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Modders will have different trees with different difficulties and levels of realism soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derbal Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I was just coming here to say the first few levels of the tech tree should be way easier, but I guess every other player in the world is far more elite than me. HehParticularly, I think the Stayputnik should come earlier, like level 1 or 2. That way I don't have to resign myself to killing the first few Kerbals as a matter of course. I should probably also be able to build some kind of basic rover right from the beginning. It would be nice to drive out to a landed capsule that didn't quite make it to KSC, to retrieve those precious science points early on.Oh, and maybe a boat to get floaters. That should be safe, considering boat technology pre-dates spaceships by several thousand years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonar Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 indeed. With the exception of the boat parts I would half to agree with Derbal. The stock parts that you start out with are actually quite limited, especially without a decoupler in their ranks. I couldn't quite build a craft that could get close to orbit with it so I did some mucking around at KSP until I got enough science to level up and then I started real missions. One of which included a Munar flyby which got me decent points, the next will be a Munar landing and a Minmus return mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaydeeDem Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I guessing once currency is implemented gaining science points is going to be much harder. Now you can just slap a rocket together, no limit on parts. Once we have money that will be harder. I think the devs planned for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moustachauve Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 (edited) I agree that the difficulty setting would be a good idea; new players would not have too much difficulty and advance players wont have it too easy. It could maybe influence cost of parts and science needed to unlock things Edited October 17, 2013 by Moustachauve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umlüx Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 i think the costs are good as they are now. i dont think the majority of KSP players will pull of a duna flyby on their 3rd launch.i had 3 launches yesterday and i only got into a mun orbit and back.i am really missing MJ... i think i am too dependent on the dV display when building rockets.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moustachauve Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I sent a craft with goo things and a jr lab in outer space (easy thing : fly straight up) in my firsts flights and I was able to do more than 600 science points, so this might need revision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linear Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Nearly everyone here is an advanced, experienced player - a career mode was never ever going to challenge us. The only way it could would be with limited part counts +/ money, but even then it's easy to do anything now.The career is perfect for players starting. If you find Harvesters interview with scott manley on youtube, he opens up about the details of the theory behind the system; his justification is sound. The experienced players have had updates throughout the entire dev cycle, new players have only had a couple updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Person012345 Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Stop exploiting the game mechanics, problem solved. I managed not to land on minmus in 3 flights and so can you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmmndrme Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Good on you if you can crank through it that quickly. I had fun just playing around with sub orbitals and the flavor text. Different people will take it at different rates, I agree the difficulty settings will be good but I don't think anyone was expecting this to challenge any experienced players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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