[1.12] Extraplanetary Launchpads v6.99.3

[taniwha]

@Angel-125: Productivity is universal (ie, there's just the one "pseudo-resource"*), so yes, an unmanned workshop can provide productivity to the micropad.

* ie, not a KSP resource, but something tracked by EL's workshop network. Vessel productivity is just the sum of the individual part productivities, and there's no discrimination on the source of the productivity. The vessel's total productivity is then evenly distributed amongst all active builder parts. Also, productivity is ephemeral, so theire's no storage or accumulation of unused productivity.

BTW, you may have noticed it elsewhere, but just in case: I have accepted a PR that adds a drone construction unit part (and some scrap metal containers).

[Angelo Kerman]

1 hour ago, taniwha said:

@Angel-125: Productivity is universal (ie, there's just the one "pseudo-resource"*), so yes, an unmanned workshop can provide productivity to the micropad.

* ie, not a KSP resource, but something tracked by EL's workshop network. Vessel productivity is just the sum of the individual part productivities, and there's no discrimination on the source of the productivity. The vessel's total productivity is then evenly distributed amongst all active builder parts. Also, productivity is ephemeral, so theire's no storage or accumulation of unused productivity.

BTW, you may have noticed it elsewhere, but just in case: I have accepted a PR that adds a drone construction unit part (and some scrap metal containers).

What if the part that is generating productivity is not part of the vessel that has the micropad? Also, many Pathfinder parts are inflatable, and change mass depending upon whether or not they are inflated. How does EL handle that situation? If it doesn’t, can I blacklist parts from the Launchpads?

[Superfluous J]

Disclaimer: I am not taniwah and didn't write EL, but have used it a lot.

31 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

What if the part that is generating productivity is not part of the vessel that has the micropad?

It isn't counted, as it's not on the ship (base, vessel, craft, whatever).

31 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

Also, many Pathfinder parts are inflatable, and change mass depending upon whether or not they are inflated. How does EL handle that situation? If it doesn’t, can I blacklist parts from the Launchpads?

EL will use what you built in the VAB. If parts magically gain mass after being built, then so be it. If they take mass (say oxidizer) out of a tank to increase their mass, then that should work as well.

In short, if you designed the craft with the parts deflated, they'll build deflated and the mass will be what they are deflated. If you designed it with them inflated, then they'll build inflated with that mass.

[taniwha]

1 hour ago, Angel-125 said:

What if the part that is generating productivity is not part of the vessel that has the micropad?

I'm sorry, but I am uncertain of just what you mean by this, so I'll tackle this from two angles.

• Two vessels docked together (via docking ports or KAS connectors (or similar)) are actually one single vessel in KSP and thus EL sees the two vessels as one (thus the productivity source and the micropad are connected).
• Two unconnected vessels and EL (currently*) has no method of transferring productivity from one vessel to another (the survey system might seam like it does, but it is the survey station that receives the productivity, not the survey stakes: they merely mark where and how the survey station is to place the built vessel).

* I have some rather vague thoughts on some sort of "coordination office" type part that could transfer productivity between vessels in a very local area, but I haven't put much into it yet.

1 hour ago, Angel-125 said:

Also, many Pathfinder parts are inflatable, and change mass depending upon whether or not they are inflated. How does EL handle that situation? If it doesn’t, can I blacklist parts from the Launchpads?

EL tries to get the correct mass of the part: if the mass of the part has been correctly set by the OnStart method of the part's modules (directly, not via coroutine), then EL will get the correct mass. This means that mods that directly adjust part.mass (discouraged) or return the correct value from  GetModuleMass when OnStart() itself completes should be correctly handled. Special effort is made for B9 procedural wings and FAR to get the correct masses of wing parts (I need to check if this is still necessary).

EL has no direct means of blacklisting parts (nor do I particularly want to add one), but there there is a hack that can emulate it: create a unobtainable resource and then add an EL_RecipeNode to the part that lists the unobtainable resource as a requirement. As an alternative, create an EL_ModuleRecipe that lists the resource as a requirement for the part module you wish to blacklist: this will blacklist any part that uses the module. This won't prevent the vessel from being selected, but it will prevent it from being built as there will be no way to complete the build requirement of the unobtainable resource.

If EL does not get the correct mass, then something needs to be done to correct the situation. I would much rather fix EL (or work with you  to adjust your mods) to get the correct mass than block parts from being built as the latter goes against the primary goal of EL: build anything anywhere.

[Angelo Kerman]

56 minutes ago, taniwha said:

I'm sorry, but I am uncertain of just what you mean by this, so I'll tackle this from two angles.

• Two vessels docked together (via docking ports or KAS connectors (or similar)) are actually one single vessel in KSP and thus EL sees the two vessels as one (thus the productivity source and the micropad are connected).
• Two unconnected vessels and EL (currently*) has no method of transferring productivity from one vessel to another (the survey system might seam like it does, but it is the survey station that receives the productivity, not the survey stakes: they merely mark where and how the survey station is to place the built vessel).

* I have some rather vague thoughts on some sort of "coordination office" type part that could transfer productivity between vessels in a very local area, but I haven't put much into it yet.

EL tries to get the correct mass of the part: if the mass of the part has been correctly set by the OnStart method of the part's modules (directly, not via coroutine), then EL will get the correct mass. This means that mods that directly adjust part.mass (discouraged) or return the correct value from  GetModuleMass when OnStart() itself completes should be correctly handled. Special effort is made for B9 procedural wings and FAR to get the correct masses of wing parts (I need to check if this is still necessary).

EL has no direct means of blacklisting parts (nor do I particularly want to add one), but there there is a hack that can emulate it: create a unobtainable resource and then add an EL_RecipeNode to the part that lists the unobtainable resource as a requirement. As an alternative, create an EL_ModuleRecipe that lists the resource as a requirement for the part module you wish to blacklist: this will blacklist any part that uses the module. This won't prevent the vessel from being selected, but it will prevent it from being built as there will be no way to complete the build requirement of the unobtainable resource.

If EL does not get the correct mass, then something needs to be done to correct the situation. I would much rather fix EL (or work with you  to adjust your mods) to get the correct mass than block parts from being built as the latter goes against the primary goal of EL: build anything anywhere.

Fair enough! Thank you for the clarification, that helps me plan out the direction of Sandcastle.

[Angelo Kerman]

I just checked, my mods implement IPartMassModifier so they should be set up properly for EL. Having some sort of coordinator would be helpful; then the 3D printer I'm thinking of could contribute productivity to a base that's being expanded with micropads.

[theJesuit]

I have a questionor anyone who mat have tried it... using some MM fu, is it possible to add docking to a micro-pad, dock two craft together and then combine them the same as the konstruction mod? 

[taniwha]

@theJesuit: such is not possible (by design, actually, as I figured it would be redundant). However, there is nothing stopping you from using a micropad to build a konstruction port, docking to that, then joining the ships. The main inconvenience is EL does not yet support building parts: you have to create a single-part vessel (though you might need to make it several parts to ensure the correct node of the docking port is used).

[NoahArnold]

On 6/23/2018 at 4:58 PM, Immashift said:

 Even after 6.1 I'm still getting the stuck craft selection window. Indeed with the console open trying to close the stuck window just throws errors. Can't select a craft, can't close window, have to exit the game and relaunch to fix. I deleted the EL folder and redownloaded, got rid of any mod that might mess with EL (looking at you, MKS), and still no changes.

EDIT: On a brand new save in sandbox, I can get the vessel selection window to display crafts from the stock game, but the window still gets stuck and can't load or cancel.

i am also having this problem, but i am running 6.1.0 and 1.4.99. any suggestions? 

[taniwha]

8 hours ago, NoahArnold said:

i am also having this problem, but i am running 6.1.0 and 1.4.99. any suggestions? 

Use 1.4.4 instead.

[ClassyPug]

I select a pad to build from then click select craft. It oprns a window with the VAB and SPH tabs with the stock ships. I select a ship and click load and nothing happens...I click cancel and nothing happens. The window is stuck in the middle of my screen everywhere until I restart the game. It is even stuck in the middle of my main menu screen.

 

I am using KSP 1.4.2

Edited July 5, 2018 by ClassyPug

[theJesuit]

4 hours ago, ClassyPug said:

I select a pad to build from then click select craft. It oprns a window with the VAB and SPH tabs with the stock ships. I select a ship and click load and nothing happens...I click cancel and nothing happens. The window is stuck in the middle of my screen everywhere until I restart the game. It is even stuck in the middle of my main menu screen.

 

I am using KSP 1.4.2

Are you using the latest EPL? Because it says it is in the OP title the latest is for KSP 1.4.4.  

Peace.

[taniwha]

5 hours ago, ClassyPug said:

I am using KSP 1.4.2

Then you need EL 6.0.0 (just edit the version number in the download url).

[M8668gr8b8m8]

I am using the 6.1.0 version of the mod with KSP 1.4.4 with the historical parts expansion,  it seems that whenever i turn on the metals smelter, it drains both oxidizer and liquid fuel from my fuel tanks,  i am unsure if this is a feature or not because i have not found this talked about in the forums. I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling the mod, along with removing any other mods that might be conflicting with it, but nothing seems to fix it.

[Terensky]

4 hours ago, M8668gr8b8m8 said:

I am using the 6.1.0 version of the mod with KSP 1.4.4 with the historical parts expansion,  it seems that whenever i turn on the metals smelter, it drains both oxidizer and liquid fuel from my fuel tanks,  i am unsure if this is a feature or not because i have not found this talked about in the forums. I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling the mod, along with removing any other mods that might be conflicting with it, but nothing seems to fix it.

It's a feature introduced in 6.0.0 :

6.0.0 release notes

[Critter79606]

I'm having an issue with the EL construction window not opening from the icon, and the button is not showing up in the right click window of the big workshop either.  I did a clean install of 1.4.4 and just put in EL and it's requirements from CKAN.  If I right click the EL button, a transfer window shows up.  If I left click it, nothing happens.

Here is my ksp log

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1SFGP8FZ4Tj0QZuyISCQd_SYtCiZe1W69

Thanks!

 

[taniwha]

@Critter79606: The workshop does not give the build dialog: one of the "pads" does (orbital dock, launchpad2, micropad, survey station, etc). I guess it's a popular misconception, but the workshop does not do any actual building, it only collects the work done by the kerbals and passes that work onto the pads.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

Just wanted to ask if I'm the only one having trouble with fuel transfers before release? I've been using the new transfer window but even though it says the fuel has transferred over, when I perform the release, it is empty.. *headscratch*.

[taniwha]

@Maelstrom Vortex: That's not what the new window is for: it is for transferring between vessels docked in the usual fashion (or via KAS). Instead, use the sliders in the build window presented just before release (not before building).

If that doesn't work, then what sort of tank switcher are you using?

[Critter79606]

On 7/15/2018 at 7:46 PM, taniwha said:

@Critter79606: The workshop does not give the build dialog: one of the "pads" does (orbital dock, launchpad2, micropad, survey station, etc). I guess it's a popular misconception, but the workshop does not do any actual building, it only collects the work done by the kerbals and passes that work onto the pads.

@taniwha Thanks for clearing that up.  I've not use EL in a while.  What do I need as part of my base to build on a survey stake then?  I'm trying to build a decent sized rocket and I know better than to try to build something that big on a launchpad on the Mun without the kraken blowing things up

[taniwha]

For a survey build, you need the survey station (a cloned hitchhiker can) a supply of survey stakes (you will have to put them in a KIS container) and a mallet (put in a KIS container). Since you probably want to fuel your rockets, you will also need KAS connectors as survey builds "arrive" empty. KIS is required to place the stakes (and the survey related parts are unavailable without KIS anyway), and most people who use KIS use KAS as well, so KAS being required shouldn't be an issue (when I designed the survey system, KAS had not yet been split in two).

[Critter79606]

1 minute ago, taniwha said:

For a survey build, you need the survey station (a cloned hitchhiker can) a supply of survey stakes (you will have to put them in a KIS container) and a mallet (put in a KIS container). Since you probably want to fuel your rockets, you will also need KAS connectors as survey builds "arrive" empty. KIS is required to place the stakes (and the survey related parts are unavailable without KIS anyway), and most people who use KIS use KAS as well, so KAS being required shouldn't be an issue (when I designed the survey system, KAS had not yet been split in two).

Thanks for the quick response.  I have kis/kas/kas1.0beta all installed, and a base I've been using mostly ground construction to build smaller parts with (it's a bit easier to move the DIY kits around).  To build the big stuff though I still use EL.  I just couldn't remember what part I was missing on my new base to build on the stake.

Thanks again!

[taniwha]

@Critter79606: I forgot to add: you can safely use launch clamps, even on rough terrain (so long as you take care to ensure the bottom of the vessel is above ground).

[Critter79606]

13 hours ago, taniwha said:

@Critter79606: I forgot to add: you can safely use launch clamps, even on rough terrain (so long as you take care to ensure the bottom of the vessel is above ground).

Thanks, I actually remembered that.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

On 7/17/2018 at 6:50 AM, taniwha said:

@Maelstrom Vortex: That's not what the new window is for: it is for transferring between vessels docked in the usual fashion (or via KAS). Instead, use the sliders in the build window presented just before release (not before building).

If that doesn't work, then what sort of tank switcher are you using?

@taniwhaI think it's b9, but some of these are default tanks. It'll load up monoprop just fine, but even with lox sliders at full on both liquid and oxidizer, it doesn't transfer at finalization. I'll have a stream clip tonight for you. Happens with all launchpad versions, orbital or ground.

Here ya go: 

Looks like it is Interstellar Fuel Switch for the fuel transfer/tank management.

 

Edited July 20, 2018 by Maelstrom Vortex