[1.8+] Real Fuels

[AceButtcheeks]

@NathanKell I named the file RFS.cfg and put it in KerbalSpaceProgram/GameData. Should I save the file type as text document or all files? It's contents look like this : 

@PART[*]:FINAL
{
    @MODULE[ModuleEnginesRF],*
    {
        %minThrust = 0
        %ignitions = -1
        %ullage = False
    }
    @MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs],*
    {
        @CONFIG,*
        {
            %minThrust = 0
            %ignitions = -1
            %ullage = False
        }
    }
}

 

[NathanKell]

If you right-click on the file and choose properties, what extension is shown in the 'Type of file' line? It sounds likely that it's still getting kept as a .txt file. Instead, try opening the RealSettings file and go to the end, hit enter a bunch of times, and then paste that code in, and save the file. That way you'll be sure it's in a cfg.

If that still doesn't work, please zip and then upload your ModuleManager.ConfigCache file (it's in GameData) as well as your KSP_Data\output_log.txt file.

[Wallygator]

11 hours ago, NathanKell said:

@Wallygator Welcome to the world of RF! I'll do a pass over the OP to clear up any install issues. RF comes with two prerequisite mods, SovlerEngines and CRP. Both need to be present for RF to work. In addition, as the OP does specify, you need an engine config pack. Without that no engines will actually be configured for use. The second post in this thread details your two options. It's possible that the engine pack you're using doesn't configure fuel cells yet; if so, post on the pack's thread. Or if you don't have any engine pack, that's your problem.

Once you have placed an engine, you can right-click on any tanks that feed the engine and choose to autoconifgure that tank for the engine. Or you can open the tank GUI and do it there (right-click, Show GUI; or action group editor mode->click on tank).

To change what propellant mixture an RCS block uses, open its GUI (same was as for a tank) and select the mixture. RCS are treated just like engines.

If you still have problems, post your log please and we can try to figure out. I can certainly guarantee that it works for a proper RO install.

 

@AceButtcheeks Open RealFuels/RealSettings.cfg and scroll down to the end, the Ullage section. You can set ullage to false, and also IIRC disable limiting ignitions. If not, this simple patch will handle it. Place it in a new .cfg file somewhere in GameData.

 

@PART[*]:FINAL
{
	@MODULE[ModuleEnginesRF],*
	{
		%minThrust = 0
		%ignitions = -1
		%ullage = False
	}
	@MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs],*
	{
		@CONFIG,*
		{
			%minThrust = 0
			%ignitions = -1
			%ullage = False
		}
	}
}

Thanks for the clarification Nathan, I've taken in all the original post bits and pieces in my original install - which ended up problematic.  My intention as stated is to conduct a complete reinstall (I'll note my steps and any issues as they occur) and post the results good or bad.  Sadly work interferes with such endeavours at the moment - perhaps the weekend (one lives in hope).

[Shadowmage]

@NathanKell

I'm working on cleaning up the engine-cluster stuff for SSTU, moving towards a system where a single part can be used for all engine clusters for a particular engine geometry (rather than one part-per cluster), and would like to ensure that I can maintain compatibility with RO/RF and ModuleEngineConfigs.

So far I have this working using standard ModuleEngines/FX or derived classes by forcing the engine to reload its config whenever I change the number of engines (so that it re-initializes effects and thrust-transforms).  I grab the parts config-node data from the prefab/available part, modify the min/max thrust for the updated number of engines, feed it back to each engine module (there may be multiples) with module.Load(node) to load the propellants and thrust values, and then call module.Start(...) to re-initialize the effects and thrust transforms.  This is all working well so far during initial testing, and the implementation is generic enough that this end of it should work fine for any ModuleEngines-derived class (not hard-coded for any specific class).

Now, what I'm curious on / will be investigating soon, is how to not conflict with ModuleEngineConfigs -- from a brief look at the source, it appears to do much as I am doing -- feeding the engine-module an updated config node with altered values.  This appears like it is going to cause problems.. specifically with thrust values (min/max).  From your experience and knowledge, what would be the best way to interface with ModuleEngineConfigs to update its values whenever the number of engines changes (e.g. multiply the thrust values)?  I'm okay with building in a bit of special support for that module if need be, but would prefer a generic solution if available.

Thanks,

Shadowmage

 

[NathanKell]

@Shadowmage you can use the stuff I created for tweakscale interaction, I think, just set ModuleEngineConfigs.scale to the number of engines.

[Shadowmage]

25 minutes ago, NathanKell said:

@Shadowmage you can use the stuff I created for tweakscale interaction, I think, just set ModuleEngineConfigs.scale to the number of engines.

Ahh, very nice.  Will attempt to set this up and play around with it in the near future.  Thanks for the info.

[NathanKell]

@Shadowmage sure! Note you may have to call SetConfiguration for it to update after you change scale.

[Charlie the Kerbal]

After playing KSP for a month I naively thought I was ready to move to RSS/RO  Tried to build the rocket as described in "First RO Rocket", couldn't complete due to some missing parts. Decided to be lazy and launch one of the new stock rockets. Sabotaged repeatedly by MechJeb (he turns off the rockets that have only one ignition. Tried a manual launch (you can imagine how good I was after using MJ in stock), gave up after some bad evaporation in the pipes.

I decided to progress step by step, perhaps Real Fuels first, then RO, then RSS or perhaps the latter two swapped. 

Is there a way to install RO without having ignition limitation ?

EDIT: Hmm... Not one told me this one was addictive  Ok, not concerned about ignition limit anymore and can manage ullage. However, something strange is happening. This is a test rocket with a large 1st stage using Lq Hydrogen surrounded with 6 SRBs. Shortly before SRBs run out I switch on main engine and it starts to slow down although I theoretically read a TWR of 1.57. Is this simply MechJeb reporting TWR wrong (I don't think so) or I am doing something wrong ?

http://imgur.com/heGLC41

Edited February 20, 2016 by Charlie the Kerbal
Things changed !

[NathanKell]

Looks like your throttle is at half. Some engines (modern hydrolox engines in particular) do throttle, so that would probably be it. And welcome!

[Charlie the Kerbal]

2 hours ago, NathanKell said:

Looks like your throttle is at half. Some engines (modern hydrolox engines in particular) do throttle, so that would probably be it. And welcome!

Thanks Nathan, that was the issue indeed. Few observations;

1. Engines (stock alike) sometimes do not produce flame (but they get red and work just fine). Is this normal or am I doing something wrong ? ModuleManager 2.6.18 gives 20 errors within Real Fuels (zHeatAnim.cfg), could this be the issue ?

2. I've got a procedural fuel tank, filled with Aerozine+NTO feeding RE-L10 "Poodle" and the set of RCS Trusters. Because the fuel is hypergolic, I was expecting main engine to not to require ullage, but it does. RCSs however just fire fine each time with no issues. Is this normal behavior ?

Thanks for this amazing mod again

[Svm420]

3 minutes ago, Charlie the Kerbal said:

Thanks Nathan, that was the issue indeed. Few observations;

1. Engines (stock alike) sometimes do not produce flame (but they get red and work just fine). Is this normal or am I doing something wrong ? ModuleManager 2.6.18 gives 20 errors within Real Fuels (zHeatAnim.cfg), could this be the issue ?

Did you install RealPlume as suggested, though should stated is flat out required for effects, in the Stockalike RF Engine pack thread? If you did not then you need the RealPlume mod. DO NOT install the stock realplume configs. I say this as CKAN was last know to force it even with RealFuels. Please manually install RealPlume if you haven't don't use ckan unless you are going to remove the stock config it may come with. 

[NathanKell]

@Charlie the Kerbal You're welcome!

As to 2 ( Svm420 answered 1), all hypergolic means is "propellants ignite on contact". All pressure-fed means is "the engine does not have a pump and relies on tank pressure for propellant flow". Neither one has anything to do with "propellants are kept near the engine and pressurant gases are kept far away", which is what not needing ullage means. Note also that all tanks are pressurized, just to varying pressure levels (~2atm for normal and 20+atm for pressure-fed).

RCS are assumed to have bladder tanks or surface-tension tanks. Those types of tanks use either impermeable membranes or fancy meshes to keep propellant near the engine (and pressurant away), and so you don't need to settle the propellants via ullage thrust.

[Charlie the Kerbal]

48 minutes ago, Svm420 said:

Did you install RealPlume as suggested, though should stated is flat out required for effects, in the Stockalike RF Engine pack thread? If you did not then you need the RealPlume mod. DO NOT install the stock realplume configs. I say this as CKAN was last know to force it even with RealFuels. Please manually install RealPlume if you haven't don't use ckan unless you are going to remove the stock config it may come with. 

Thanks Svm420

Yes, it was installed (re-installed as you described). Looking into the log files, it is KW Rocketry engines generating these 20 errors. I must admit I made some manual changes in their .cfg files to make them work in 1.0.5. Thinking about it I am quite sure it was one or two of these engines where I was having no-flame issue.

Guess I need to go flame-free until they release 1.0.5 version on these engines ?

35 minutes ago, NathanKell said:

@Charlie the Kerbal You're welcome!

As to 2 ( Svm420 answered 1), all hypergolic means is "propellants ignite on contact". All pressure-fed means is "the engine does not have a pump and relies on tank pressure for propellant flow". Neither one has anything to do with "propellants are kept near the engine and pressurant gases are kept far away", which is what not needing ullage means. Note also that all tanks are pressurized, just to varying pressure levels (~2atm for normal and 20+atm for pressure-fed).

Understood  Cheers

[Svm420]

6 minutes ago, Charlie the Kerbal said:

Thanks Svm420

Yes, it was installed (re-installed as you described). Looking into the log files, it is KW Rocketry engines generating these 20 errors. I must admit I made some manual changes in their .cfg files to make them work in 1.0.5. Thinking about it I am quite sure it was one or two of these engines where I was having no-flame issue.

Guess I need to go flame-free until they release 1.0.5 version on these engines ?

They work for me. I may be able to diagnose the issue if you upload your module manager cache file. For the 20 errors I would need you log. Here if you don't know where to go.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Svm420

[Charlie the Kerbal]

19 hours ago, Svm420 said:

They work for me. I may be able to diagnose the issue if you upload your module manager cache file. For the 20 errors I would need you log. Here if you don't know where to go.

I am just getting 20 of these, one for each engine.

[LOG 21:26:35.954] [ModuleManager] Applying node RealFuels/zHeatAnim/@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleEnginesRF],@MODULE[FXModuleAnimateThrottle]]:FINAL to KWRocketry/Parts/Engines/1mVestaVR1/part/KW1mengineVestaVR1
[LOG 21:26:35.956] [ModuleManager] Cannot find key animationName in MODULE
[LOG 21:26:35.957] [ModuleManager] Error - Cannot parse variable search when inserting new key ThermalAnim = #$animationName$

Stock engines have a parameter such as

animationName = HeatEmissiveAnimation

while KW engines have following 

ThermalAnim = GriffonHeatAnim 

I just need to check if it was me messing it up to get it work.

EDIT: It seems like flame problem is not related to KW engines, just built few Procedural SRBs, they took off without any flame.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Charlie the Kerbal

[NathanKell]

Do you not have SmokeScreen installed?

[Charlie the Kerbal]

2 hours ago, NathanKell said:

Do you not have SmokeScreen installed?

No, only other flame related looking mod is ModuleAnimateEmissive which I think came with KW Rocketry.

These are the installed Mods : http://imgur.com/avKxvZe

Don't want to take too much of your time, I can remove everything and reinstall if you don't see anything obvious.

Thanks

[NathanKell]

@Charlie the Kerbal  RealPlume requires SmokeScreen. RealPlume is conifgs. SmokeScreen is the plugin. That would explain things.  

[Charlie the Kerbal]

 Charlie needs to read mod pages better !

[NecroBones]

@NathanKell, I think the parts that I've added to Real Scale Boosters so far are probably stable enough to start considering RF/RO patches. How much of that should go in on the RSB side? I started some very incomplete configs for tanks and the like, but thought I should check here first. As an example, I have some tank settings and a submitted SRB config for the Ariane V here, but it's all up in the air at the moment.

 

 

 

 

[NathanKell]

@NecroBones awesome! @Phineas Freak has already written PRs for a bunch of the parts, we're currently testing and merging them. If you look on the Pull Requests page of the RO repo (and the RealScaleBoosters folder for what's been merged) you can see what's already been done.

Looking at the config, the main thing to know about RF configs is that they clobber RESOURCE nodes. You need to set up those amounts inside TANK nodes in the MODULE[ModuleFuelTanks].

[NecroBones]

7 minutes ago, NathanKell said:

@NecroBones awesome! @Phineas Freak has already written PRs for a bunch of the parts, we're currently testing and merging them. If you look on the Pull Requests page of the RO repo (and the RealScaleBoosters folder for what's been merged) you can see what's already been done.

Looking at the config, the main thing to know about RF configs is that they clobber RESOURCE nodes. You need to set up those amounts inside TANK nodes in the MODULE[ModuleFuelTanks].

 

OK great, awesome! I'll look at the configs. That's good to know about the tanks too.

 

The one thing I'm a little unsure of how to handle, is that some of the decoupling parts (fairings, Centaur parts, etc) use a little SolidFuel to control the ejection. I wasn't sure what would be best, to either place a multiplier on the SolidFuel to bring it back up to the right propellant mass (example below) or otherwise switch it to one of the existing solid propellants, or possibly create an "EjectionCharge" propellant used just for that.

 

@PART[RSB*]:HAS[@RESOURCE[SolidFuel]]:NEEDS[RealFuels|RealismOverhaul]:BEFORE[RealScaleBoosters]
{
	@RESOURCE[SolidFuel]
	{
		@amount *= 4.213483
		@maxAmount *= 4.213483
	}
}

 

[NathanKell]

If you know what propellant is used that would of course be best, but just multiplying the volume (to preserve mass) is fine if you don't.

[NecroBones]

6 minutes ago, NathanKell said:

If you know what propellant is used that would of course be best, but just multiplying the volume (to preserve mass) is fine if you don't.

 

Yeah, I may just do that since these are mostly cases where no actual propellant is used in reality, but it worked better for these parts than a decoupler ejection charge.

[K3achas]

A CKAN install with only RealFuels (and everything it automatically installs) hangs on the first engine it finds on KSP 1.0.5 linux 64 bit.

KSP.log  ModuleManager.ConfigCache