Anyone else not really care for the career stuff?

[Jeff Bird]

I don't think thread is meant to be taken as "WAH! I'm not having enough fun with career, stop working on it and advance other parts of the game. Parts I will more directly enjoy."

Ditto.

I'm liking the heck out of career mode. It's fun

[Nathair]

I for my part haven´t started a non career mode game since career mode was implemented.

However, I am not into unmodded gaming anymore.

FAR + Procedural Fairings, DRE, a mod that lets you recover stages (with enough chutes) even if they leave the 2.5 km range before landing, as well as a Lifesupport mod (predominately TAC LS) are a must for my gameplay (which is why I haven´t done all too much in 0.25 yet .... still waiting for some mods to update)

You pretty much took the words out of my mouth.

[mitsukaikira]

Have to agree, it's just too simple for people who've played the game for anything more than a couple months.

A lot of people think funds, missions etc make the game 'hard', others see it as annoyance of launching another simple mission. Either way, people are entitled to their own opinion. :-)

Just like saying people who have played this for a couple of months think career is too simple. Total opinion as I enjoy career FAR more than sandbox.

[Geneborg]

I will wait till 1.0 to play career (except for short tests to see what an update brings). Right now its just not balanced.

[Superfluous J]

i play sandbox exclusively, i just dont see the point in grinding out progressively less crappy rockets so i can invent a ladder or a battery

That's a totally valid way to play. I personally play career exclusively because I just don't see the point in launching rockets all over the Sunar system, standing on the surface, nodding, and coming home.

That's one of the great things about this sandboxy game, it caters to all play styles.

[AmpsterMan]

I take this approach. I like building my crafts and testing them in sandbox mode; often times doing challenges or crazy/fun things and then i go to career mode to try and continue toward exploring the Solar System.

Also, I like having a lot of money. More money makes me feel like I'm accomplishing something in the world and I like that feeling of agency

[StrandedonEarth]

I like it. I finally lost a game in hard mode after a few mistakes (staging, not watching the TWR for higher stages, attempting to demolish the VAB, etc). Never even made it to the Mun, but the effort bankrupted me. I used to have no trouble building low-tech Munrockets, but I seem to have gotten overconfident.

[Kuloth]

I like career mode, at least the idea of it. But I have to confess I was a little disappointed with the missions and money implementation.

I was hoping for stuff like... build a communications, weather, spy, and GPS satellite network (not missions, you can just build these kinds of satellites and get them into the right kinds of orbits and run these kinds of networks). Things like space tourism... but not missions, build a space station and just start selling tickets. Discover a new, valuable kind of ore on Ike or something and have to set up a mining base.

This kind of thing would be more in line with Kerbal's sandboxy play. I think going down the path of linear missions makes for a jarring clash of play styles between quite an open sandbox and, well, missions.

I also think there's a lot more sandboxy fun to be had from space craft recovery, if they can fix the implementation. Reusable stages should be a thing.

I think if some of this stuff would be implemented, the constant questions of "what is the point of space planes" and "what are ion drives used for" could be quickly answered. (e.g. Shuttling tourists to your space stations, and positioning satellites")

That's the KSP career mode I was hoping we would get. Space Tycoon really.

[PTNLemay]

If you're looking for a refined and challenging career mode, look at Better Than Starting Manned.

Oh... that does look rather nice.

[sedativechunk]

Hey people,

Well I'm surprised at the feedback my little forum post as got! As Lemay's comment pointed out, I'm not here to really "complain" so much, I was just curious who else was really that enthusiastic about the career mode edits in the 0.25 update. I see I'm not alone in my feelings. I just don't care about the career path for the game. One of you mentioned getting bored with the game after exploring/building stations and etc. KSP doesn't get boring to me, it never will. The career mode for me dictates too much of what I want to do and sometimes forces me to play the game in ways I don't want. Personally I have played KSP almost 500 hours now. I started playing a very long time ago just on the demo when there was still just the old launch pad, and then I actually bought the game around 0.22 I think earlier this year.

Not to re-iterate things or go against the forum rules of posting "features that will never be implemented", but I wish there was more grander features added rather than the whole career bit. As my original post mentioned, I would die for an official "Saturn" like planet. Maybe not just Saturn, but a complete solar system because right now we are missing a few obvious gas giants! Saturn is the most beautiful planet in our solar system and most mysterious with it's ring system. It would have complimented KSP so well if we could have Saturn as part of the game as an explorable planet IMO. They always talk about making more difficulties with this game, Saturn is the place they could do that. Add the rings and make them treacherous to fly a ship through. And Titan, Saturn's moon, in real life they say the atmosphere is so dense that you could literally swing your arms around to fly in it's thick atmosphere! That would be a very interesting element to have in KSP, trying to land a ship through an atmosphere like that an avoiding it's acidic lake systems. What about a molten world as well like the real life Io? We have "Pol", but it's just another boring rock where Io is a stunning moon that is constantly geologically active. I also heard about an asteroid belt, would it be nice if there was an actual one in the game and you had to carefully maneuver around it in a harder difficulty?

This game at it's core was a "NASA sim" and part of it's magic was being able to leave the planet and explore space. I feel that the career mode stuff, although it adds more of a "purpose" to the game, takes the focus off of make this game have a grander universe. I am also an indie developer/programmer myself, I get that this game is huge and takes a while to add things. I'm glad they followed through with the career mode as it feels like something they always wanted in the game. But now that it's here, I want the focus to go back to new worlds, exploration, and new ships/parts. I also heard they (Squad) were religiously against adding other stars/solar systems but to be honest, I don't see why not. NASA discovers new exo planets almost on a weekly basis. Assuming we had a dedicated space program with 100+ years of experience in traveling in space, reaching these other solar systems and worlds isn't really that impractical.

I'm just an explorer at heart. I've studied astronomy and "the big bang universe" in college, I'm also a hobbyist astronomer with a dobsonian telescope. Part of the magic in KSP for me is the exploring aspect. I like the "science" system in the game because it gives me a purpose to go to these places, but the currency and contracts are piling on features I don't really want and kind of diverts what I want to do in the game. There's also tons of mods that I feel should be part of the "official" game as well but that's a different argument for another day. I'm just stating my dislike for the focus on the career mod.

[Fengist]

I had high hopes for career mode. Found it utterly boring.

As I see it, here's the BIG problem with KSP. You spend hours, days... or in the case of the guy who circumnavigated Kerbin by ground... months creating, designing, planning and then... you launch. The day has arrived. You make it to the far reaches of the solar system, land your craft, EVA your Kerbal, plant a flag and then.... abandon the craft right there because once you've gotten there, there's nothing to do.

Oh sure, there's Kethane so you can make more fuel to go more place and do nothing when you get there...

What this game needs, more than career mode and a DAMN sight more than destructible buildings... is for the planets and moons to have a purpose. A reason, other than 'fake' science, to go there and stay.

Until that happens, I'll just tinker in my sandbox.

[Godot]

... The day has arrived. You make it to the far reaches of the solar system, land your craft, EVA your Kerbal, plant a flag and then.... abandon the craft right there because once you've gotten there, there's nothing to do.

....

You don´t even care about a safe return of your Kerbals to Kerbin?

I definitely wouldn´t want to be a Kerbonaut in your space agency

[Tw1]

My problem with career is so far, is a lot of it hasn't done much to make it feel like running a space program. Unlocking parts from a list, doing odd jobs for money, doesn't make it seem like you're running a NASA, or an ESA.

I would've liked to see funding based on your program's level of success- kill ten Kerbals, you loose funding for your next launches. Landing on a body that hasn't been visited much, or returning good science measurements would lead to can increase of funding. This system would follow what you do, rather than give you a list. Maybe something contracts like could bring in funds on the side.

Though maybe there's still hope. They could add more budgeting tools, mission planning systems, flesh out science to give you things to do while on a planet, adding simple life support, crew wages, and having reputation very slowly trickle away would add a time management aspect.

Now, that would feel like running a space program.

Personally, I think making science a currency was an odd idea. It has no point appart from the tech tree, as experiments could have been tied to reputation. I hope they've got something very clever planned for it.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Tw1

[Boomerang]

I used to be a bit more grumbly about science/career modes, but recently I've found that if nothing else, it makes for a nice change of pace. I naturally prefer sandbox and setting my own goals and having the freedom of design, but when my enthusiasm over that flags, I can hop onto my career save. Heavily nerfing all the rewards makes it a lot more fun/challenging as well.

Once I can be bothering to set up a separate game file, I might try out BTSM for it as well, which sounds interesting.

[Hyomoto]

What a bore. Career mode isn't about nerfing or making the game difficult, it's about giving it structure. Going to Minmus IS the point, it IS the goal. So is returning. So is dealing with a mishap. Career simply provides structure around how you go about doing these things. It provides a sense of progression and funnels your activity. If you find there is nothing to do when you get somewhere, that's a lack of vision and imagination on your part.

Let me give you an example. Shadow of Mordor just came out. It has a minimap in the lower left hand corner of the screen that tells you EVERYTHING about the world around you. As a result, you will eventually spend more time looking at the minimap then you do the world around you. Once you lose focus of the larger world and start focusing on those tiny little blips, the game quickly becomes mundane. Distances become a chore. It's no longer about sneaking around and killing orcs, it's about moving from one dot on the map to the next. Kerbal Space Program isn't much different. People use mechjeb to launch craft because 'launch has become mundane and boring' and 'they just want to get to the good part'.

Well I love telling you this: you no longer have perspective of the game as a whole, and that being the case, everything you say is from a tiny, compartmentalized viewpoint. I'm not making a case against creative by the way, I'm pointing out that when you arbitrarily decide that parts of the game aren't for you and you skip them, whether literally or just mentally, it will shallow the experience. Period. In this case it isn't the game that has become uninteresting, it's you who have become uninvested. That's fine of course, just don't pretend like your apathy is the game's fault.

When building rockets and flying across the solar system is mundane for you, it's clear you've either lost some sense of perspective or you need to take a break.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Hyomoto

[Francois424]

I love the science mode, and almost exclusively play that. I have a game that has been running since science came up and is always auto-updated with the new features... But plain science is enough for me. When the new biomes comes around, I might have an even greater time doing it.

IMHO, contacts needs to be more RL inspired, and prolly will be as they get polished. But stuff like : Orbit around Saturn(yeah just using RL analogues here), drop a lander on Titan, do atmospheric science and surface science as the probe falls down. Or get a plane into orbit with 12 kerbals with a total vehicle cost (all stages) of < 100k.

Didn't get into checking the administration building, but from what I am reading it needs balance before it is ready.

Anyways, I'm more in it for the science gains than the other 2.

[Godot]

...

IMHO, contacts needs to be more RL inspired, and prolly will be as they get polished. But stuff like : Orbit around Saturn(yeah just using RL analogues here), drop a lander on Titan, do atmospheric science and surface science as the probe falls down. Or get a plane into orbit with 12 kerbals with a total vehicle cost (all stages) of < 100k.

...

I definitely agree about this. Some contracts thould be a little bit more detailed.

Instead of "Do science on Mun" (or in orbit around Mun etc. )

we could have "Measure temperature on Mun" (requiring the use of a Thermometer on your probe)

or even more specifically:

"Do a Mystery Goo test in Farside crater on Mun"

Similarly you could have science contracts for specific Biomes on Kerbin.

(and if/when separate Biomes get implemented in 0.26 for the other Moons/Planets in the Kerbol system)

(Same goes for contracts for manned/unmanned landings and flag planting, which also could better be aimed at specific Biomes rather than just with the planet / moon specified)

[Hannu]

I like mostly sandbox like gaming but there are good things in career too. It gives nice elements to rolegaming if you can collect science and have limited (however, very high) budget. I start a new career maybe every other update and play most of the time on sandbox like situation when I have unlocked every parts and have millions of money. However, I hope that career stuff will not take too much attention from essential, space and space flight. That SQUAD could finally decide that career is ready (maybe except some details and balancing issues) and go on with spaceflight things.

I tried 0.25 with hard settings, FAR and DRE but frustrated. It is not hard in technical sense, because I know properties of parts and physics of atmosphere (I am not supersonic aerodynamics expert but it seems that even FAR cause not any problems with small rockets, just decrease delta-v requirement) and orbital mechanics, but I just need to repeat simple basic tasks tens of times to proceed. Career mode would be great, if I was novice and could learn basics with it. But I have played since 0.18 and have visited on every planet before first career version. Therefore I know what to do and beginning is repetition of very simple things.

[Zylark]

I really like the Career mode - actually never played Sandbox. And now that it's gotten a bit tougher to progress (playing on moderate - I need my revert and quicksave/load) I find it even more engrossing. I also flavour the game with a ton of mods. For more interesting contracts for instance, the Fine Print mod is awesome. It does give those kinds of missions some here have requested, like say (and is a mission I just did) land on Minmus, collect Laser Surface Scan (from DMagic Orbital Science), Goo Sample and Temperature Sample from Minmus Flats. Combined that with a contract to plant a flag and another to do science in orbit around Minmus. Swatting three contracts in one go and receiving a great payout on Kerbin return.

Add to that contracts from Station Science and MKS/OKS, some of which are quite comprehensive - more long term projects than single missions - and there is plenty to keep one occupied whilst of course also doing all the other stuff. Such as setting up infrastructure for resource harvesting and planning the road ahead for going to faraway places.

The challenge is to have at least a skeleton of a plan on how you intend to move forward, so that doing the contracts isn't a deviation and distraction, but rather adds to your capabilities. Be that as mundane as science points and funds, to getting reusable assets into service.

[Dizzle]

I like the career mode, but I hate how it starts. It's just boring until solar panels and fuel lines are unlocked and I can start sending kerbals to the Mun.

[Zylark]

I like the career mode, but I hate how it starts. It's just boring until solar panels and fuel lines are unlocked and I can start sending kerbals to the Mun.

You just need the first single-cell solar panel. Fuel Lines is over-rated. I made it to Minmus with some very basic equiptment - as most my research had gone into unlocking science stuff.

No fuel lines required. Just a lifter that could kick 7.5 tons into Kerbin Orbit.

[mordin86]

I only play sandbox to be honest. I tried career some time ago and it was fin, but not kept me playing for long. So the best thing for me in 0.25 is the new space plane parts

[Linear]

Just use the 200 thrust smaller engine that generates elec, it'll give you enough elec on your decent burn to send some data, and give you enough elec for torque on return.

You don't need solar panels for kerbins satellites! Try it without and you'll surprise yourself. :-)

[Epthelyn]

I like the career mode, but I hate how it starts. It's just boring until solar panels and fuel lines are unlocked and I can start sending kerbals to the Mun.

You could just start with 200 or so Science and skip that part entirely.

[Sky_walker]

You don't need solar panels for kerbins satellites!

You don't need solar panels on a Mun landers either.

Just a set of batteries. With LV909 on your rocket upper stage it's what.... 10 small cheap batteries? Or something around that to safely reach Mun with a probe and transfer science back.

If you use one of the engines with alternators you only need as much batteries as it's required for Kerbin-Mun transfer, and you can easily make a round trip with Mun landing.