ShotgunNinja

[1.3.0] Kerbalism v1.2.9

4542 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, ShotgunNinja said:

@aniron Every Shielding unit weight 2T. The player is supposed to compromise between mass and life expectancy due to radiation. You can tweak it like any resources, so you can have a pod with 0.2 Shielding amount for example. To give you an idea: under cosmic-level of radiation a Kerbal can survive 250d with a ShieldingFactor of 0.0 (eg: no shielding at all), and 5y 370d with a ShieldingFactor of 1.0 (eg: max amount of shielding). So to simplify, it cost 2T per-Kerbal to give a vessel the max amount of shielding possible.

In the case of a surface colony, if the body has a magnetosphere then there is no need for shielding at all. Magnetospheres act as safe heavens for life.

 

EDIT: during design i considered evaluating shielding for each individual container (that would be required for a proper 'storm cellar' implementation), but then I discarded it because I through the micromanaging could have become boring. Also, there is no incentive to keep kerbals outside of a 'storm cellar' and into normal pods when there is no radiation, so one would simply keep them in the storm cellar all the time.

Not in stock, no.

In UKS, for instance, some modules need to contain a Kerbal of the appropriate specialization to operate, and other give a hefty bonus for doing so.

Don't get me wrong, your mod looks to be really awesome, but if it requires giving up most other mods to be playable it won't get very popular.

Question: If I were to replicate the Apollo landing and have a shielded command module (3 seats, 3 kerbals) docked to an unshielded empty lander (2 seats, no kerbals), I would only have the benefit of 3/5 of the shielding the kerbals would have once the lander was ditched, no?

Edited by aniron

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Unlike most people here I've actually been waiting for a good all-in-one mod that instead of working next to the game it works alongside it and integrates everything into one big dynamic system.

This is the first mod of this kind I'm actually going to use because all the components are fine tuned to work with each other instead of being a bunch of completely unrelated mods made compatible but not taking full advantage of that compatibility.

Please don't get demotivated by all the requests of modular systems, I for one rather have a big and well designed system fine tuned to have all components interact with each other in a meaningful way than a bunch of modular systems tied together loosely.

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Is this compatible with Remote Tech? I tested it. When i build an unmanned launcher with only RT it has a connection but I can`t control the launcher. I must use your Antenna too.

And can i remove the Antenna-Part?

Edited by Cheesecake
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56 minutes ago, Cheesecake said:

Is this compatible with Remote Tech? I tested it. When i build an unmanned launcher with only RT it has a connection but I can`t control the launcher. I must use your Antenna too.

And can i remove the Antenna-Part?

Why not just use what he has painstakingly put together?  Running both,  you are asking for issues.  What you are basically asking is what others are asking for and that's to make it modular so you can continue to utilize remote tech.  What he has done is integrate all of these mods so they work seamlessly together. No more running to 12 different modders to fix an issue. It's awesome. And note,  it's still in beta and will likely only get better with time and feedback,  not asking him to break his mod down brick by brick so you can throw out the ones you don't use.  

Edited by Berlin
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Very nice indeed. :wink:

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@ShotgunNinja

I have not tried the mod, but missing at first glance the most important recource: WATER!

Heavier than all the food it is expensive to transport and recycle at considerable expense.

And waste which, apart from separation and recycling is an essential part of all mission plans.


I hope that these things keep still enter in the Mod and i wait on good/better/perfect mods, the death and other important things :wink:

Edited by hraban
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This is probably one of the most brilliant mod I've ever seen and I can't see the moment to use it in 1.1 64 bit. I'm curious how compatible this is with other mods that cover different aspect, like FAR, Interstellar Extended, B9 Aerospace.

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1 hour ago, Berlin said:

Why not just use what he has painstakingly put together?  Running both,  you are asking for issues.  What you are basically asking is what others are asking for and that's to make it modular so you can continue to utilize remote tech.  What he has done is integrate all of these mods so they work seamlessly together. No more running to 12 different modders to fix an issue. It's awesome. And note,  it's still in beta and will likely only get better with time and feedback,  not asking him to break his mod down brick by brick so you can throw out the ones you don't use.  

The thing is OP hasn't incorporated RT; they've incorporated a quasi-RT system that requires that you be in antenna range and have EC in order to control a vessel.  This means no more setting up complicated constellations to ensure that multiple vessels can be connected at once, no more signal delay complicating probe landings, and all sorts of other things.  The same goes for other things; their life support mod is good (only because of the lack of depth in existing mods), but their part breakdowns are no better than DangIt, Entropy, or TestFlight and the living space feature is limited in comparison to using a collection of other mods.  Radiation, depending on how realistic the implementation is, could be a good replacement for kappa ray, and the GUI is admittedly nice.  The background processing is important, but I'm worried about what could happen if I've got a large number of active vessels; OP's already said that they have no idea how it would behave with 200 ships (which isn't that low for a lategame vessel count). 

 

The issue people are having is that the author has made it clear that there isn't going to be a high level of customization options whereby we can a specific feature on or off, and it will not play nice with other mods.  In cases where their mod is deficient, we don't have the option of swapping in someone else's mod to fix that, whereas we would if it were multiple authors writing independent mods.  

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22 minutes ago, Charlie_Zulu said:

The issue people are having is that the author has made it clear that there isn't going to be a high level of customization options whereby we can a specific feature on or off, and it will not play nice with other mods.  In cases where their mod is deficient, we don't have the option of swapping in someone else's mod to fix that, whereas we would if it were multiple authors writing independent mods.  

the author made the mod the way he intended.  He isnt forcing anyone to download this.  If you want those particular mods then nothing is stopping you from getting them and dealing with potential integration issues. More power to you. Again this is in beta. Who knows what's in store for this mod. And just because he isn't going to make this mod exactly how some want it,  doesn't mean it won't be great for many other people. What I'm seeing is people crying because they want the integration of this mod but only if its THEIR set of preferred mods. If the author said no then that's that.  No point in continuous requests. 

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I absolutely love the idea of rolling the funtionality of multiple mods into one. 

However, I was planning on starting 1.1 with a fresh save with more mods than I currently have; probably RP-0 and the community tech tree. I've only played basic-ish KSP up to now with very little part additions (or none, other than Procedural Fairings) and gameplay enhancements (KER, MechJeb, KAC, etc.).

So... I'm not sure if I'd rather go for your mod (which is not modularized) or do the multiple mod installs with a much more set and established base and flexibility with other mods  

I REALLY like the functionalities in your mod though. 

So in this case, can you maybe put up a list of incompatible mods? Just so I know how open my options are with this mod. 

Edited by Box of Stardust

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14 hours ago, VenomousRequiem said:

Should be required for RO.

No.  There are some good mechanics here that we might want to ape but otherwise it's pretty much a "Kerbalism", insofar as I can see from the outside.

Nothing wrong with that at all, BTW, it's just that it's a tightly integrated package (probably game-balanced for KSP) and RO would want to yank some parts out in favor of others.

OP, good luck, looks pretty good from the descriptions.

Edited by regex

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Wow... this mod is good... WAY better than I expected. The only thing I would change are the parts, they don't really fit stock. I really like the menu though, and how it doesn't add to the toolbar chain every modded KSP game is doomed to.

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49 minutes ago, regex said:

No.  There are some good mechanics here that we might want to ape but otherwise it's pretty much a "Kerbalism", insofar as I can see from the outside.

Nothing wrong with that at all, BTW, it's just that it's a tightly integrated package (probably game-balanced for KSP) and RO would want to yank some parts out in favor of others.

OP, good luck, looks pretty good from the descriptions.

Also it does not seem to be at all customizable or modifiable for any Kopernicus pack

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Hi,

I spent the last couple of hours trying this mod out, and I got to say, It's brilliant.

The way that everything integrates is amazing, the the UI is beautiful, something that unfortunately can not be said about many KSP mods.

I've seen many people mention the Community Tech Tree. This mod is mostly compatible from what I can see, apart from the shuffling about of the science modules. I actually like the way it's in this mod better, but when using other science mods it doesn't quite make sense any more. This is easily changed to your own preference though.

All in all, for me there's really just one feature missing, and that is Signal Delay as exist in Remote Tech. To me that is the key feature of Remote Tech, as it makes probes much more difficult to use in far distances. Without this, probes tend to feel a bit OP compared to Kerbals, whom are both heavier, and take allot of work to keep alive. Any chance this might be implemented in the future? Maybe as an optional setting?

Apart from this, I actually prefer your Signals system. It's a bit more basic, but to be completely honest, i'm more then done with setting up advanced relay networks anyway. That was only fun the first few times :)

 

Brilliant work with this mod, and I'm sure it will have lots of success!

Edited by nosscire

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@hraban Water would overlap too much with Food gameplay-wise. You could consider food as representing both. Waste is there, produced by Kerbals when eating and used by the Greenhouse. The player don't see it, as I'm use an hidden pseudo-resource (for balance and other reasons).

@Nansuchao, @Box of Stardust Every part packs should just work out of the box: pods get food/oxygen, the scrubber and shielding; and parts with modules supported by the Malfunction mechanics will fail. The only thing that may require some love is the antennas (because there isn't really anything one can do to discern the range of an antenna automatically) and to some extent solar panels and other EC generators (that may need to be balanced, possibly). Also parts that somehow could work toward improving quality of life of the crew can get the Entertainment module and a rate assigned by a MM patch (not required by any means, just an extra).

Any other mod that add new mechanics or somehow change the gameplay will not interfere with this as long as the two do not overlap conceptually (example: FAR doesn't overlap at all with this, so there is no compatibility issue).

 

At this point I think its appropriate to explain the series of events that lead to me developing this mod.

Spoiler

I saw 1.0.5 was released and jumped on it. This time I really wanted to have life support in my game, including the consumption of ElectricCharge the background.

So I proceded to download and try all existing life support mods, one after the other. Some of them, to some degree, claim to require EC and consume it in background. Well, that isn't really the case, and the reason why it is this way is simple: they can't possibly consume EC in background without producing it too (or the player's Kerbals will just die...).

So I started to develop my own life support mod, out of desperation. I also come to discover BackgroundProcessing, that looked like the perfect solution until I actually tried it: occlusion from celestial bodies was broken, and there were many more problems. I attempted some kind of collaboration with the author to improve on that, but he probably is busy with other matters. It wasn't his fault either for the broken things, hell there are families and genera of things you have to get around in KSP to make stuff work in background coherently. So I ended up rewriting the background processing from scratch.

Then the ISRU. I never really played with it, but I wanted to see how it behaves with my background simulation as I've read somewhere it was somehow already simulated in background by squad. Well, it was utterly broken. The squad simulation just isn't mean to deal with complex setups, and for complex i mean a drill, an ore container and a converter. So I just went ahead, drink all the caffeine my body could take, and rewrote that thing from scratch. Yes, now IRSU work in background for arbitrary setups. Alleluyah!

All well. I dediced it was enough modding and I went to playing. I remembered from my 1.0.4 days that DangIt added a lot of spice to the game. Well, I could't manage to get to orbit without the engine or the fuel tank near to the engine failing. WTF? Why was that happening, what has changed? I tell you, the temperature model has changed from 1.0.4 to 1.0.5 and probably the carefully balanced DangIt juts had its balance thrown out of the window. I tried to tweak that in DangIt source for my own perusal but then I said to me 'Buddy its just faster to rewrite this thing from scratch'. At that point I looked in the forums for ideas about a malfunction mod and I found a lot of people complaining about random failures. I could sympatize with them. The fact is planning for failure is fun, but no plan survive contact with reality so it all result in unusable vessels in a way or another. I wanted to provide an alternative to that, and specs getting reduced logarithmically just looked perfect. And also now I can get failures on unloaded vessels.

Now (this is the last point i promise), I had AntennaRange installed. I did some kind of Sputnik replica mission in the early game, then the batteries run out in a few hours and it was just there orbiting for eternity, monument to my space program. And I forgot about it... until, during a tense moon mission the damn thing start relaying data! Yes, dead vessels can relay data in AntennaRange. That was not really acceptable to me, gameplay-wise, and at that point I knew very well what to do: I put down 10 espresso in rapid succession and start writing the whole signal shebang from scratch. Like with malfunctions, I just explored the forums to see if somebody had some good idea and I found out about SQUAD wanting to add antenna ranges and relaying to the stock game, that was delayed. So I through it would be good to implement something similar to it.

Then I through it was done. 500 man-hours later this was good enough to release to the public.

And so this is the story of how I came to make this mod.

 

 

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I'll certainly be checking this out soon! It combines a lot of my essential mods into one! :D

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@ShotgunNinja You certainly showed some serious modding skill, sadly I can +rep you more for now. What you did is incredible and many players will enjoy using this mod in the new release. I agree with all the things you told in your story. Good luck for these 500 hours of work to be seriously rewarded.

 

30 minutes ago, nosscire said:

All in all, for me there's really just one feature missing, and that is Signal Delay as exist in Remote Tech. To me that is the key feature of Remote Tech, as it makes probes much more difficult to use in far distances. Without this, probes tend to feel a bit OP compared to Kerbals, whom are both heavier, and take allot of work to keep alive. Any chance this might be implemented in the future? Maybe as an optional setting?

The Signal Delay is really controversial. Talking about realism, no one in real life will try to manually control a probe. Everything is deeply coded inside the IA before the ship is launched. In case of any issue, a program is fastly developed and uploaded to the probe, but that's never about maneuvers or burns. This RT feature for sure adds a lot to the game, but it's not realistic at all. It makes you work with the RT computer, but many players (me too) doesn't like to use automatic piloting on a vessel.

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@ShotgunNinja, I wouldn't get discouraged from some of the feedback. I think your mod is very interesting. Instead of asking for modularization, they should really be asking for some more features. I haven't had a chance to play with it, since as I said earlier I am already using 1.1, but one thing I can see as being missing for me is signal delay for probes and signal saturation. IE: getting it closer to what RemoteTech does. Also, talking to @RoverDude about having support in UKS would be interesting. Apart from that, I think your mod is really, really solid. Keep it up :)

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8 minutes ago, Nansuchao said:

Delay is really controversial. Talking about realism, no one in real life will try to manually control a probe. Everything is deeply coded inside the IA before the ship is launched. In case of any issue, a program is fastly developed and uploaded to the probe, but that's never about maneuvers or burns. This RT feature for sure adds a lot to the game, but it's not realistic at all. It makes you work with the RT computer, but many players (me too) doesn't like to use automatic piloting on a vessel.

Oh, I'm well aware of that. I do enjoy using the RT computer and other means of autopilot, but I understand that not everyone does. That is why I suggest it as an optional feature. I don't think that it would be good to force it on players. I can also understand ShotgunNinja does not wish to do this, if it would go against his intents of the mod as a whole.

If he wants to broaden the appeal to more players, options are necessary, but I fully accept if he don't think this belongs in his mod.

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This looks fantastic. What's the status on 1.1 support?

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4 minutes ago, makkz said:

This looks fantastic. What's the status on 1.1 support?

Read page one of the thread.  He doesn't have 1.1 yet 

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This mod is amazing!!!

If only some parts could be turned off, a prefer USI LS for Life support and RemoteTech for signals.

Its is completely unique when it comes to Life Support on EVA and radiation.

Good Job  @ShotgunNinja   :D

Small question...

Is it possible that you Don't run out of oxygen and EC when EVA'ing attached to the craft via a KAS pipe?

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@BT Industries It depends on how KAS pipes works. If they temporarely make the ship and the Kerbal part of the same vessel, then it should already work and the EVA kerbal will automatically take EC and Oxygen from the vessel.

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7 minutes ago, ShotgunNinja said:

@BT Industries It depends on how KAS pipes works. If they temporarely make the ship and the Kerbal part of the same vessel, then it should already work and the EVA kerbal will automatically take EC and Oxygen from the vessel.

Thanks for the speedy reply.

I sure hope it will work...

 

I just remembered an idea I had ages ago and I think it would work great with mod (If not done already). 

Kerbals use up Oxygen under water?

Edited by BT Industries

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@BT Industries From a preliminary look at KAS source code it seems like they are abusing the docking system to implement the pipe, so it should work as Kerbalism consider docked vessels as a single one. If you happen to test it please let me know the results.

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