CobaltWolf

[1.6.X] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.5.2 "Бруно" 8/Feb/2019)

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Posted (edited)
On 8/12/2019 at 7:20 PM, Dragon01 said:

@CobaltWolf Since you're fiddling with Atlas, any chance of experimenting with a smooth, reflective skin? Not in line with, but even if it's optional, I'd love to see a reflective Atlas balloon tank.

So, I have been doing some touch ups to the Atlas. They're stuff I've been meaning to do for a while but haven't gotten around to. Adding some more raceways to add more accurate details and break up the model a bit more, I'm probably going to do some touchups on the engine textures, I want to add a B9 switch for the booster skirt so that it can have 'caps' to look right with other tanks... but, yes, I'm experimenting with the metallic shader again. This is a picture of what I left off on last night - you can grab it from the Github if you want to see it yourself, a single picture really doesn't do reflections like this justice. I spent at least two hours adjusting the settings in the shader and the textures. I'm not happy with how it looks right now. I have some more ideas to try, I'll see if I can test them tonight. Remembering some lessons I learned in my rendering classes... There's at least two different ideas I have to make it look a lot better.

Basically, I want to give people a reason to remembers Atlas exists this update :P Improvements to the Atlas upper stages, unfortunately, will have to wait until next dev cycle.

hlYK6nQ.png

Edited by CobaltWolf

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1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

Yeah, it all works fine as long as you update the dependencies. :) Those parts were in game like that for years before B9PartSwitch added those warnings. The parts in question have actually been remade completely from scratch, which is why I didn't spend an afternoon fixing those errors.

Awesome! I can indeed confirm that so far everything has been working properly :)

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2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Basically, I want to give people a reason to remembers Atlas exists this update :P Improvements to the Atlas upper stages, unfortunately, will have to wait until next dev cycle.

Looks like a good start. If I might suggest something to try, see how it looks without the rings. Just a smooth, aluminium balloon. 
E-F_4.jpg
This would be an unusual move, to basically put everything on the reflections shader and leave texture without other details, but that's how the real Atlas looked.

Also, if you feel like making texture switch options, early Atlas missile tests had a peculiar, black and white paintjob, with red booster fairings:
A_3.jpg
Very un-Atlas-like, but it does look interesting. 

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Is there an official Procedural Fairings patch for BDB? It’s quite hard to replicate real fairing shapes and to have the same fairing every time without it.

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@CobaltWolfI noticed two issues to attach-nodes. The first one is the Orbus 21. I think there should be a lower top-node to attach the TOS-avionics-ring. But there isn`t one.

F9P26U5.png

Also the RD180 of Atlas V has no higher top-node for attaching when it is switched to the Atlas-V-Housing.

cc5dgY4.png

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1 hour ago, Dragon01 said:

Looks like a good start. If I might suggest something to try, see how it looks without the rings. Just a smooth, aluminium balloon.
This would be an unusual move, to basically put everything on the reflections shader and leave texture without other details, but that's how the real Atlas looked.

Also, if you feel like making texture switch options, early Atlas missile tests had a peculiar, black and white paintjob, with red booster fairings:
Very un-Atlas-like, but it does look interesting. 

Like I said, I have a bunch of stuff to try. Reducing the intensity of the seams is one of them.

idk about atlas texture switching. It's not really set up for that. It's a 2K texture sheet that maybe 1/4 would be used for a texture variant, so I don't want to waste that much RAM...

 

19 minutes ago, KerbalKore said:

Is there an official Procedural Fairings patch for BDB? It’s quite hard to replicate real fairing shapes and to have the same fairing every time without it.

https://github.com/jsolson/BDB-ProceduralFairings

 

16 minutes ago, Cheesecake said:

@CobaltWolfI noticed two issues to attach-nodes. The first one is the Orbus 21. I think there should be a lower top-node to attach the TOS-avionics-ring. But there isn`t one.

Also the RD180 of Atlas V has no higher top-node for attaching when it is switched to the Atlas-V-Housing.

Are you sure your B9 is updated? The switches for both of those parts change the nodes, but that feature was added sometime last year.

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26 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Are you sure your B9 is updated? The switches for both of those parts change the nodes, but that feature was added sometime last year.

Thanks, that was it. Didn`t see that there was a newer version (used 2.7.1).

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Really getting into using Solids.  They're cheap and very effective for routine launches.

1GxZI8u.png

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Posted (edited)
Spoiler

image0-18.jpg

 

Edited by Barzon Kerman

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Ok, something more traditional, Saturn IB launch from the Saturn Mobile Launcher with the Milkstool. This is the first of the "big 3" segments: Saturn IB-Milkstool, Shuttle, Saturn V.

 

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Posted (edited)

Hey all! Planning on doing a dev stream tonight. Going to finish these Atlas touchups and get the SLV-3X parts in game! :) I'm looking to start around 6 PM Eastern, over on Twitch.
 

EDIT: Completely unrelated to what I'm going to be streaming tonight, here's some Gemini update pics. That's probably going to be the last chunk of this update - giving y'all some more Gemini parts to use these new LVs with!

So, first off, a proper Gemini LES, that will be useful for keeping crews safe when launching on rockets bigger than Titan IIs.
Here's the MOL crew section sporting one...

CBTXgO3.png

And here's a Gemini Ferry with one...

OFlBnaC.png

The LES design is based on this, from the MORL Ferry studies

wBcLW5w.png

 

As you can see, other Gemini parts are taking shape. The updated/more accurate MOL, Gemini Ferry, Big G 1969, and more station parts.

Here's the old MOL RCS next to the updated version.

Fpe1TDn.png

 

Some people have mentioned they didn't like the old endcaps, here's the new standard 1.875m station endcap. Unwrapped and AO'd but not textured yet.

vlyZW8B.png

 

Here's a better look at the Gemini Ferry Equipment Section. This and the MOL equipment section will be a single part with a B9 switch, since the change is mostly just aesthetic.

You can see the various consumables tanks etc in there. Same as before, unwrapped and AO'd but basically untextured.

sisnYVy.png

Edited by CobaltWolf

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2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

EDIT: Completely unrelated to what I'm going to be streaming tonight, here's some Gemini update pics. That's probably going to be the last chunk of this update - giving y'all some more Gemini parts to use these new LVs with!

Are you going to touch up Gemini SMs, too? While the crewed sections seem to hold up, more or less (though you may look into substituting FASA IVAs, if they fit), the SMs aren't all that good. 

I found a really good pic of the Gemini-B SM:
1181696.jpg

1181697.jpg

You can see space for six retromotors, as well as a crew tunnel. Fun fact: the Gemini retros were Star-13E motors, very similar to a motor that also flew on Thor. Pretty much this thing:
Star-13E.jpg

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6 minutes ago, Dragon01 said:

Are you going to touch up Gemini SMs, too? While the crewed sections seem to hold up, more or less (though you may look into substituting FASA IVAs, if they fit), the SMs aren't all that good. 

I found a really good pic of the Gemini-B SM:

You can see space for six retromotors, as well as a crew tunnel. Fun fact: the Gemini retros were Star-13E motors, very similar to a motor that also flew on Thor. Pretty much this thing:

I think the Gemini needs to be remade from scratch at some point, but that's a big project for right now. I'm pretty carefully not making anything that would have to change after something like that, just want to add more Gemini add-ons to give people chance to use the new rockets for crewed payloads.

The IVAs for the Gemini pods were actually made by @tg626 specifically FOR those part, so they fit a lot better than the FASA Gemini IVAs that we used to use.

One thing, I'm not properly representing the offset crew tunnel in these new parts. It's a lot of work for something that's going to either be a) covered up or b) incompatible with other parts.

I am going to probably make the SM a proper Restock white for this update, though.

I'm not sure what you mean about the Thor? I don't see the association between that and the Star-13.

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It was used on satellites that flew on Burner II upper stage. That said, upon closer inspection it seems like it was integrated with the payload. 

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I'm really excited to see these new Gemini and MOL parts coming together. The one thing that always bothered me about using Skylab was that I like to be real modular with my station design, multi-adapters all over the place connecting different sections, and the like. I've been trying to use Skylab as an orbital relay point for munar ferry craft but only having the one docking adapter has really held me back, especially when life support, habitation and sun-tracking solar panels need to go on. I've tried using SSPXr parts as a stopgap measure to add more docking space, but the adapters don't fit the new docking ports very well unless I tweakscale the heck outta them. I guess Skylab expansion parts could be a thing for the future - but that's getting a little ahead - new MOL parts should fill in just perfectly. At last, the Gemini station dream will be real!

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14 minutes ago, GJdude said:

I'm really excited to see these new Gemini and MOL parts coming together. The one thing that always bothered me about using Skylab was that I like to be real modular with my station design, multi-adapters all over the place connecting different sections, and the like. I've been trying to use Skylab as an orbital relay point for munar ferry craft but only having the one docking adapter has really held me back, especially when life support, habitation and sun-tracking solar panels need to go on. I've tried using SSPXr parts as a stopgap measure to add more docking space, but the adapters don't fit the new docking ports very well unless I tweakscale the heck outta them. I guess Skylab expansion parts could be a thing for the future - but that's getting a little ahead - new MOL parts should fill in just perfectly. At last, the Gemini station dream will be real!

There's definitely ways to expand Skylab if you're not building it exactly historically. Docking ports on the aft for instance, or using the radial structural nodes to add more nodes to the MDA, or whatever. Personally I like the idea of using the Gemini/MOL parts to make modules for it. Hopefully that will be a bit easier with some of the newer stuff - I haven't shown everything I've been working on.

 

Pre-stream starting in a few mins over on Twitch! Working on finishing the Atlas SLV-3X stuff tonight!

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1 minute ago, CobaltWolf said:

Personally I like the idea of using the Gemini/MOL parts to make modules for it.

That's exactly what I'm planning on doing once we get those spicy new parts in.

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5 hours ago, Dragon01 said:

You can see space for six retromotors, as well as a crew tunnel. Fun fact: the Gemini retros were Star-13E motors, very similar to a motor that also flew on Thor. Pretty much this thing:
Star-13E.jpg

Actually, I believe, STAR 13 was only used for Gemini-A (NASA) and not Blue Gemini (Gemini-B or USAF).   Blue Gemini used longer and thinner SRMs (I don't have my source in front of me but the rockets look more like little Antares SRMs instead of the Spherical Star like NASA Gemini.)  

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17 hours ago, ConnieCommie said:

can't wait for the update - the only reason i'm using the transtage right now is so i can get a sweet trans flag

BDB says trans rights

 

I need to fix a bunch of issues people have found with the Atlas parts, but for the most part they're done. Once I get that done I'm going to keep getting LDC stuff ready for some serious texturing tomorrow. I'm planning on streaming starting some time tomorrow morning.

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Also messing around with the new Fatlas parts.

A somewhat purist SLV3-X Vega.

ji9cHwlh.png

The original proposals called for Centaur D but it can handle D1 and even Centaur II just fine

JOdInKRh.png

But for serious lifting power added 4 algols with a 4 ring extension tank :D. Delivered a fully fueled Centaur D1 into a 90x90km orbit with a 2 ton payload (JNSQ).

rdK1W7jh.png

vtat3Olh.png

The payload incidentally was a four legged Surveyor MK II built using Gemini lander legs

Spoiler

mUR2OKkh.png

EXc9SEsh.png

 

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So I hear you’re revamping the Gemini line of parts...

Yeah, Gemini definitely needs to be redone - the capsule itself is fine, but basically everything else could use an update. For instance, the adapter section should be split into two sections - the adapter and the retro-module - and the MOL station parts need to be redone since currently they bulge out way more than the real one did (from what I can tell, although I may be wrong). 

I like the way you’re currently taking it, the LES and ferry modules look very good. I still think that the MOL station module you showed was a bit to wide, but that may just be me. And of course, you would still need to implement the actual ground-facing telescope array, maybe you could even rig up contacts to photo certain areas. 

 

Anyways, in preparation for the upcoming Gemini revamp I looked though as much of the stuff on it as I could find, and my god, there’s s lot. For starters:

Gemini/MOL wasn’t just for optical Earth-observation. I found a few articles which referenced a version of MOL with a radio telescope to listen in on Russian transmissions (and potentially even electronic warfare?), so maybe that could be implemented but as a deep space observatory, with contracts to observe pulsars and such. (Imagine a contract to position a Gemini with a radio telescope behind the Mun to shield it from radio emissions and you get some science as a reward)

There’s also all of the Gemini satellite inspectors/interceptors which had many different variants, the most basic of which was a regular Gemini with a robotic arm and grappler to grab onto satellites, and the most advanced of which was basically a mini space station, with a habitat module attached behind the adapter. 

Not to forget all of the rescue Gemini variants, which ranged from Earth orbit all the way to the Lunar surface, and were mostly just other Gemini configurations painted with red and white checkers. They did look cool though. 

And finally, there are the Lunar Gemini's. I would hold off on the bigger ones (aka direct ascent) until you revamp the Saturn’s, but what you’ve done so far with the smaller ones looks very good. It’s a shame you’re not working on the Lunar Recon Gemini yet because that one is my favourite, but as I said, I agree with you’re decision to revamp the Saturn’s first. 

 

Of all of these the ones you should probably focus on first (in my opinion) are: 

1. Gemini EOR/LOR (would require the implementation of literally one part - the cargo bay for the lander)

2. Revamping the Gemini Service/Adapter Module (requires two, maybe three parts)

3. Implementing the Gemini taxi

4. Revamping the MOL parts

5. Adding the MOL optical and radio telescopes, and the satellite grabbing arm

6. Adding the Gemini paraglider

7. Revamping/adding Big Gemini and Lunar Recon Gemini (after the Saturn overhaul)

8. Adding Gemini Direct Ascent and Rescue Gemini

 

I’ve taken the liberty to compile some to-scale diagrams of them (spacecraft on the right hand side of the second image are the same spacecraft as in the first image): 

II986LT.jpgmIjF86O.jpg

Top to bottom: Gemini Taxi, MOL Gemini, Electronic Warfare Gemini, Interceptor Gemini, Lunar Recon Gemini, Circumlunar Gemini, Gemini-Agena, Classic Gemini. 

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