I don't understand why the spaguetti rockets are not fixed

[Luc1fer]

If a guy with basic programing knowledge can make a mod about it, are them gonna tell me that a bunch of experimented programers can't?

 

Pls fix this on vanilla =(

[Reactordrone]

It's a feature, not a bug.

[Gargamel]

2 minutes ago, Reactordrone said:

It's a feature, not a bug.

Thank you.  I had typed up a post about learning how to design with struts and such, but it sounded apologetic.  But yeah, I see floppy rockets as a design hurdle, not a bug.  Even real rockets have to be built strong enough not to buckle. 

[Bill Phil]

I've only ever had a rocket noodle once in years. And it was made of the smallest tanks of that size and so had a lot of joints. If you build em right they don't noodle.

[klgraham1013]

19 minutes ago, Gargamel said:

Thank you.  I had typed up a post about learning how to design with struts and such, but it sounded apologetic.  But yeah, I see floppy rockets as a design hurdle, not a bug.  Even real rockets have to be built strong enough not to buckle. 

Real rockets aren't made of several small tanks stacked on top of each other with struts running up the outside to hold them together.  Though, I haven't had problems with spaghetti rockets in a long time, calling it a feature makes about as much sense as calling radar altitude only being visible in IVA a feature.  Sure, it adds another "challenge" to gameplay, but does that challenge actually add anything?

Again, I haven't had much of a probably with this in many updates, but my rockets tend to be pretty straight forward.  @Gargamel That came over harsher than intended.  I do that sometimes.

Edited April 29, 2018 by klgraham1013

[Majorjim!]

10 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

does that challenge actually add anything?

Res ipsa loquitur.

[LoSBoL]

I like to sit next to the aisle when flying, preferably way at the back. Its fun to see the floor of the isle flexing when taking off and climbing to cruise altitude.

If it didn't flex, it would probably break. 

Edited April 29, 2018 by LoSBoL

[soulsource]

As others have said, the wobbly rocket are intended to be like that, as a gameplay mechanics. KSP is not an accurate simulation, it's a game, and the developers put in a lot of things they consider fun.

Of course their definition of fun does not necessarily match yours, but luckily KSP has quite an active modding community. Kerbal Joint Reinforcement is probably what you are looking for. There's an updated dll file for 1.4 available.

[klgraham1013]

4 hours ago, Majorjim! said:

Res ipsa loquitur.

Stop with your Mun language. 

[frizzank]

Two options do fix this. First in the options make sure show extra actionable is on. Then in the editor you can right click on a part and make it ridged or use auto struts. 

[SpacedCowboy]

Yeah, never had this problem. Through proper application of auto strut and rigid attachment no rocket should turn into ,,, pasta.

[Gargamel]

20 hours ago, klgraham1013 said:

@Gargamel That came over harsher than intended.  I do that sometimes.

No, not you, never. 

It was a valid rebuttal to my statement, so I'll let it slide.   This time. 

[dave1904]

Is installing KJR so hard? Its not like it has any compatibility issues with any other mod. 

[Hunony]

On 4/29/2018 at 8:05 AM, Juanlu16 said:

If a guy with basic programing knowledge can make a mod about it, are them gonna tell me that a bunch of experimented programers can't?

 

Pls fix this on vanilla =(

go to your game settings, enable advanced tweakables, go to your game, right click in a part and put the auto-strut, to use it for example, the root is the capsule in the top, keep putting auto-struts in adapters, decouplers, engine in to the root part, this just helped me a lot and i hope it help you

[Luc1fer]

On 5/1/2018 at 3:37 AM, Hunony said:

go to your game settings, enable advanced tweakables, go to your game, right click in a part and put the auto-strut, to use it for example, the root is the capsule in the top, keep putting auto-struts in adapters, decouplers, engine in to the root part, this just helped me a lot and i hope it help you

Helped, thanks, but I still think they should fix it

[Bill Phil]

14 hours ago, Juanlu16 said:

Helped, thanks, but I still think they should fix it

They did. It used to be worse.

[Superfluous J]

On 4/29/2018 at 7:05 AM, Juanlu16 said:

If a guy with basic programing knowledge can make a mod about it, are them gonna tell me that a bunch of experimented programers can't?

Just because something is a mod does not mean it should be in stock. I personally consider KJR to be cheating*. If your rocket is so flimsy that you need KJR to launch it, you built a bad rocket.

The only bug in the game is that the rocket doesn't - like it would in real life - just explode.

*And by "cheating" I mean I won't use it because it allows me to ignore aspects of the game I find important, but don't look down on anybody else who uses it because they don't find those aspects important.

[steve_v]

3 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

I personally consider KJR to be cheating

I run KJR, not because it is easy, but because it reduces part-count.
The humble strut, as useful as it should be, is just another casualty of the physics engine's inability to deal with a large number of parts.

 

[Capt. Hunt]

they did improve the connections considerably in one of the previous patches, it used to be way worse.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Capt. Hunt

[cfds]

Was the whole chained rigid body concept really a planned feature? It looks more like Squad was looking for a system to build a craft from multiple components via Drag&Drop and Unity did provide this out of the box but also did build a chained rigid body directly in the process.

Separating the different aspects of a part ("entity that can be moved in the explorer", "target for right-clicks to access functionality", "representation of a rigid body component") would probably have been possible but keeping what Unity provided and declaring it "Kerbal" was a lot less work...

[Gargamel]

2 hours ago, cfds said:

Was the whole chained rigid body concept really a planned feature?

Yes, sort of.   The initial concepts for KSP were drag and drop construction of rockets, and to see how high you could get them.  The 'rigid body' design is just a side effect of how the game was initially designed.  Which was by a couple of brothers who didn't have a lot of programming experience, and they really didn't have a long term plan set out when they started us down this road of insanity. 

[Corona688]

People will always complain about spaghetti rockets, even when joints have been strengthened to the point of improbability.

Even when autostrutting is available in stock game.

Always.

[AVaughan]

Even in real life long skinny things have a tendency to buckle, and joints have tendency to flex.  That happens in real life.  It happens in KSP, if it is causing you problems, then the best advice is to minimise the number of joints, and/or not make things so long and skinny.

[steve_v]

7 hours ago, AVaughan said:

Even in real life long skinny things have a tendency to buckle, and joints have tendency to flex.

True, but the physics engine doesn't have the resources to simulate all this properly.
My only problem with the way joint flexibility works currently is that there is far too much of it.
Yes, things deform or break (or simply explode if they're  soda cans fuel tanks), but I've never seen a joint IRL that could do the things we see in KSP.
If you louse up structural integrity when building a rocket, it explodes. There is no "bending 40° and flapping like a wet rope" phase.

[JadeOfMaar]

On 4/30/2018 at 8:17 PM, dave1904 said:

Is installing KJR so hard? Its not like it has any compatibility issues with any other mod. 

There are many mods that don't agree with KJR: anything that allows actuation at joints like Infernal Robotics, KAS probably, DockRotate (rotation on docking ports), the trailer hitches in two rover mods, and very likely any construction mods. And it's a very bad idea to add any other joint strengthening mod on top of it. Phantom forces would be much easier to encounter and get rekt by.

KJR and even autostrut may also be a combination to avoid...

Edited May 4, 2018 by JadeOfMaar