kerbiloid

Disunyessed dis-un-yes(s)-ed

Banned by shelf fish.

To be a letter and let is like to be a paper and pape, kinds of cheating.

Yes, terday

I'm not enough selfish, so I ban your self.

The solution was found long ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatured_alcohol

This argument doesn't bring new entities like "domestication", "intention", etc. So, Occam blessed it to be the default one.

The self is banned again.

Writing paper letters is cheating.

The critical thinking here is loudly whispering that by inventing the "domestication", its "reasons" and "methods", a historian falls into the unforgivable heresy of humanization of stochastic processes, like the evolution. The imagination is drawing a peaceful pastoral picture of a tribal philosopher having a rest in chair near the campfire, dreamily watching the stars, and serenely inventing various inventions to make the people's life better, the world nicer, the peace more peaceful. Then, "eureka!", he thinks out the idea "let the animals be our friends!", and the villagers, shocked by his geniality, start the hard work of implementation of his gorgeous dreams. How are they doing this, it stays unclear, but finally we see the friendly dogs, cute cats, pink piglets, and other rural beauty. And we start wondering, how could they do that? what were they doing? how had they gotten to the excellent idea to domesticate the animals? *** In reality we are talking about the society where human death and injuries are a daily routine, and every day they kill more animals than a modern person can see in all his life. When it's dinner, they don't go to supermarket, or call for pizza. They just take the nearest lamb and slice its throat. In evening - they cut off a chicken's head. When the favourite dog gets too old, they don't bother with its keeping, but just hang it on the closest branch or sink in the nearest lake. The cats are just expendable. Their best teaching methodics is to hit with a stick, to let the pupil remember that he shouldn't skin the goat that way because its skin will get a hole. Their women die as often during the childbirth (they do this since thirteen) as the man breaks a leg in the forest and dies from gangrene or is eaten by a bear. The dreaming philosophers and inventors in such society are not tribal heroes. They are village clowns, and their dreams are an object of fun, unless a practical suggestion can bring profit right here and now. So, even if one had suggested to domesticate animals, they should first of all carefully ask him "You can talk to animals?! Say one to come here, we'll eat it and believe you." After the negative answerr or a failed attempt he would be for the rest of life a village idiot, who is never taken into a hunting team, and will have two ways: either to become a shaman (so his mad speeches will be treated as spirits talk), or live short, die bright from the first wolf he met. Because the remains of their former neighbor tribe who was softer in habits, are lost in the trash heap, together with other kitchen junk, or in more civilised times made the local wolves thicker, *** There was no such thing as "domestication", there was "co-evolution". The human itself is an ancestor of a neotenic ape. When the climate got dry, and the jungles shrank, the strong and hairy chimpanzee kicked out the weaker ape losers from forest into savannah with no bananas around. They had to ward off the pigs digging for roots. and dig out those roots, and smash them with stones to eat. They had to ward off the scavengers from uneaten remains of lion prey, steal big bones with marrow and brain inside, and crash them with stones to eat. They were carrying that cargo in the upper hands, holding the sticks by the upper hands, using stones by the upper hands. And quickly run away to the shelter on rear hands. Thus they were becoming bipedal and handy. The hands usage forced the fine motorics center, and from gestures activity the speech center had splitted from the fine motorics center. They got the ability to modulate their ape screams into voice and speech. At the same time their food was poor, and dangers countless, so their lifetime got miserable compared to the happy chimps. This totally changed their reproductive strategy. Instead of a big adult and hairy male with a harem of hairy wives (because he's much stronger), they moved to promisquity and a group family of teenagers where noone was able to ward off other males. Also this meant that not that ape is the best who would be the strongest in 20 if not died in 10, but that one who is more or less strong in 14. So, they were becoming more and more pedomorphic. The human is an ape, but it looks not like an adult ape, but like an overgrown and underdeveloped ape child. Thin hair (though their number stayed same), soft face, flat eyebrows, hair on on top of the head and in some other places, flat face (not adult ape jaws), and so on. Thus, the chimp-like ape became the neotenic ape called human. *** When the human was catching (or gathering from the lair) wild species and had enough food to not eat them immediately, they were staying in the trib camp (or escaped to forest to be eaten by the wild relatives). The captured animals with habits and body of wild ones, were living between the humans. The more often the animal was uncomfy for a random human, the sooner it received a fatal hit with a wooden stick and went to the soup. The more childish and cute was the animal looking, the more chances it had to get owned by some human wishing to pet and protect it. Thus, just a blind stochastic natural selection process was washing out too aggressive and too uncute species from the population. The more childish and friendly was the animal, the more chances it had to reproduce, while too rough and adult one was accidentally killed and eaten by humans. The rough constitution, thick hair, thick bones, and aggressive manners are forced by the male hormones. So, the low level of male hormones was dramatically critical for the probability of the animal survival. The masculinity was really toxic for them, lol! Also, the childish animal has softer meat, so humans were appreciating when the cute pink she-pig was bringing more pink soft piglets, and cared about her. As a result the captured animal population was turning into a population of neotenic species derived from the wild ones. On the other hand, these neotenic species were alien for the wild species and were treated by them only as food. Thus, a pure blind evoultion has developed the set of neotenic species (dogs, cats, pigs, cows, etc.), and then the human took care of elimination of their wild ancestors to clean the room for the "domesticated" ones. So, no "domestication" idea was ever implemented. It was just an evolution with no plan, and the human cruel aggressiveness was the main factor forcing it The more aggressive were humans, the faster the surviving captured species was being "domesticated". No need to search for romantics in rural reality, it doesn't have it. When they don't have to slice some animal throat before every meal. When they do, they treat the animals like things and don't care of their feelings. They are still peaceful, because what's a problem to kill a thing? A good illustration is the set of noun cases in the Indoeuropean languages, derived from the active-stative language. A full set of cases for the active entities, a linited set for the objects that are always objects. (Not very clear for the modern English speaker (due to reduced cases), but clearly visible for a Slavic one). (That's why I'm suggesting the village practice.)

Because pipes are leaking. Where is Univer City?

Putting letters into the upper case is cheating.

So, as nobody cares, I'm self-unbanned.

It's a moderator's scythe sound effect.

My former school is at five minutes of walking from me, but unlikely they would let me come there just to read the forums.

No problem. If it's for food (a goat), but you don't want to eat it immediately, you tie it by neck to the tree at your house to eat later. In the morning you see the village children, poking it with sticks and throwing stones and laughing when it screams. Later they get bored, and the goat tries to eat the grass. The children see a new fun. They start bringing grass and feeding it. Then you eat the goat. Next time the old fun looks dull, and nobody wants to bother with grass, so they just untie the goat from the tree, drag by the stranglehold to another tree with grass and tie it there. Then you eat the goat. Once it became a usual practice, you keep several goats in a pen to eat them tomorrow on the village holiday. And so on. Some day you decide to gather enough goats in the pen instead of hunting each time. *** With dogs and cats it's even easier. You kill big dogs which can bite you, but leave 20 kg ones which are afraid of you. Because you need them only as sniffing and signalling tool, not as wolf killers. If a dog tries to bite, you beat it with a stick. If it's still trying to bite and hate you, you add it to soup. Thus only the infantile specimens survive, with low male hormones, underdevloped, looking childish (from that the difference between the wolf and the dog comes; wolf is adult, dog is neothenic adult). Some day later you have a pack of "human's friends" looking at their human owner like at god. The same with cats, that's why the domestic cats look more childish, and why the wild cats aren't domesticated good. *** Rural life is based on violence. Theories come later, when special people do the dirty job for you. Domestication is a process of killing the dangerous, beating others, and killing those animals who are still dangerous. When you get an infantile neothenic generation (dog, domestic cat, pig, cow, etc.), you start experimenting with selection. All simple. When you mostly a hunter/gatherer, and it's enough forest around you don't need to bother very much. Thus, it took millenia.

*** To be brief. *** The Moroccan peasants get up early in the morning, climb on the trees, lift the goats and put it there. The goats have to stay on the branches until in late evening the peasants climb on the trees and take them off to the ground. *** The caught cobras are exactly trained. While the only thing you can train a snake is to associate your knocking with feeding. But even this only snake skill is not used for dance training. The snake charmer fixes the snake and just starts beating its head with the flute. The cobra is biting the flute, but to no avail, as the flute is immortal. A couple of weeks later even the stupidest snake understand that the flute is evil, but you can't kill it, and it's just trying to evade from the flute. When the snake is trained this way, the charmer bandages the arms and legs with strong leather bands, puts on a leather breastplate, and puts on a roomy white robe to hide them. Then he's just sitting in front of the cobra, playing on flute, and dancing with upper body, from time to time poking the snake with the horrrible evil flute. The cobra is extending the hood, hissing, imitating attacks, but just from fear. Actually it's panically afraid of the flute and is trying to evade from it, mirroring the charmer's movements. So, the whole dance is made by the human, the snake has no idea about music, but see! it's dancing! When the cobra had lost its marketable appearance and should be dismissed, the charmer just pokes with a sack into the cobra nose, it bites it, then he yanks the bag out together with the venoumous fangs sticking in it. After that the cobra is send to arena with a mongoose to be defeated by the brave furry cutie. It's a perfect example of how the absolutely illiterate and not full of wisdom persons can successfully solve an etological problem just by beating the trained species with a stick, and an absolutely simplistic, naive, and successfully working example of how do the simple village people can bypass any wise theory in practical life. They just know from their own experience that a wooden stick is the best teacher if beat enough long. Because the academic scientist just thinks different, and hardly can imagine that the working solution can be that stupid. The whole domestication is from same opera.

We are discussing the civilisations, as to the moment the whole SETI project is just an expensive zilch which has brought exactly 0 (zero) bit of scientific data, and any discussion on it is doomed to be a discussion of the sapient races evolution. Both questions are brilliant samples of how do the illiterate persons and mostly not brilliant thinkers successfully train an untrainable species with no theory in heads, or solve similar problem in alternative way.

Even more SETI offtopic, but on topic of hunting-gathering high-tech and animal domestication. How do the illiterate peasants in India train cobras to dance to the flute music when the snakes are deaf and extremely silly? How do the illiterate peasants in Morocco train goats to graze on tree branches, for the tourists' joy?

Granted. You get a trillion picoboosters and boost. I wish boost become standard.

And the funniest part of that - asymmetrically.

People do rediscover this every time when some plant grows at the place where they usually throw uneaten or spoiled fruits. Many times per life. A hunter/gatherer is knowing that as well. He has enough practice in looking for food places, and he knows that raspberries grow around the raspberry bush, where the berries had fallen. As well he many times had seen young apple trees around the apple tree, and a mushroom colony around the same rotten tree. He can't explain its physical basis, but the principle "like attracted like" he understands brilliantly well, and the whole tribal and rural sympathic magic is based on it. He just doesn't seed the seed, he buries this seed to kick this plant spirits to bring more such plants. Of course, for a bribe. (If this bribe is some food, and he usually has nothing else to bring as a bribe, it becomes a fertilizer and the spirits like it.). He just doesn't need to use that knowledge intentionally, because he gathers more in the wild nature. *** The problem of academic humanitarian science is that the academic scientists are too separate from real life and simple people, and are always trying to invent complicated schemes where a simple dumb guy from a random village is just doing everything in a shockingly simple way instead of long thinking. And the historians of all kinds are known as the best example of this. The linguists are another one. Where an illiterate peasant learns another language just by practice, a pupil/student is forced to first learn a lot of specific terms and rules, and then have a several year long practice to do the same. The languages aren't invented by the scientists and writers, they are invented by illiterate peasants who weren't even splitting words into sounds, let alone spelling them in letters. I strongly insist that every ancient/medieval historian student should have a several year long slavery practice in a village to protect his common sense from blurring by theoretical authorities. With kicks and limited amount of given food instead of marks. This would make them operate in the most simple, quick, and efficient way, with limited tools and resources, and laugh at overcomplicated suggestions. To study the village, they first should be trained to think like the village, brutal, simplistic, and short-thinking. Doing before (and preferrably - instead of) thinking. (And the best part of that would be forcing the antiquity historians finally build at least one Great Pyramid with Ancient Egyptian tools, instead of telling that they can, lol.)

The ban finished a revolution around the banned planet and bans again.

It makes twins. Even with crafts. Why are the Kerbals looking like twins?

Labelling is a cheating.