Wjolcz

I think it's doable as long as you don't dip right into it. I may be mistaken, but if you lower your Apo and Peri to about 70km it's totally doable.

I struggle to understand how an outcome of some completely unrelated experiment can enhance the tech. If, for example, you do the pressure experiment and that somehow helps you to build a wing that won't corrode in a given environment, or will be lightweight and strong at the same time (won't bend in the harsh gravity of Jool), then ok. I can understand that. And I get that maybe generic science points were easier to implement, but it's not something I enjoy. Making people go places shouldn't be driven by points. They should be driven by the will to explore, see new things and understand them. That can be easily done with mission objectives. I agree. The whole "clickiness" of experiments is a problem too. Maybe some of them (the more complicated and involving ones, like the lab) could have like little UI widgets were we could push buttons, drop things and mix them together, expose to different gases, vacuum and radiation to see how the materials react? Maybe something like that could also work well? And yes, I also agree about useful information. Telescopes (if implemented) would be a great way to educate people about how astronomy works and what can be learnt from observing the universe. Think about all the nebulas, pulsars, galaxies and actual info about them! I have learnt so many things, simply because this game got me thinking! Why not include all those facts and trivias in the game itself? Just so the whole science aspect of the game doesn't feel as hollow as it does right now. We only have points and witty reports.

Do you guys think the Dragon capsule will have some cargo on board? Maybe an ISRU unit? Maybe Mr. Zubrim could provide one? It would be kind of pointless to land it there without any payload. Not like someone will space to live in there, or anything.

Ooooh, I have to say you had me there for a sec. I actually thought this was some pseudoscience thread and was wondering why it hasn't been locked yet. That's actually cool though. Given there are like hundreds of kilos of meteorites falling into the atmosphere every hour, I see no reason why a king shouldn't have one of those godly pieces himself.

Career mode overhaul. No more science points.

Nope. The idea of science points is completely backwards and needs ro change. The points are the main reason why it feels grindy. You shouldn't go to other moons and planets to be able to build bigger fuel tanks. It's ridiculous. "But KSP is a game!" True. And so is Legend of Zelda. Except the fact that rupees there work as actual currency. You buy things with it, because they are supposed to buy you things (and guess what? They have an IRL counterpart!), not be reforged into a better sword. What you do in KSP is basically taking a laptop with scientific graphs representing the pressure on Jool and rubbing them against a fuel tank. BOOM! That tank is now bigger and holds more fuel! Thanks "Jool Probe 11" for that! BUT that doesn't change the fact that experiments themselves are boring and some of them not involving enough. And I agree with you that they should be somehow enhanced.

How about "No More Science Harvest(R)ing"

True. But you don't have to wait for the mission to arrive to unlock a new node. If you pay funds and wait only, let's say, five days for an engine to be unlocked then you get the engine ready to use. The you put the rocket together to fullfil the mission by performing science experiments. The current system works backwards: You build a rocket, send a probe/capsule to [insert celestial body here] to build a better rocket. That's not how it works IRL! The Voyagers weren't sent to Jupiter and other planets to build the Space Shuttle! Tech needs time and money, not pictures of Galilean moons. Am I wrong?

Can we expect some nice pictures to be taken by the onboard camera soon-ish?

Only if there's no other life forms on another planet. Unless the life forms we put on the surface somehow help those already there. Kind of like 2001 scenario, except you don't put a monolith on the surface and instead microbes that can coexist and help evolve one another.

The problem with science points is that if you don't want to do any more grind in Kerbin's SOI you go out to Duna (if you really want a lot of points) and wait until the probe arrives there. Until then you are stuck with what you have in the tech tree. So to me it's really a "timewarp or Mun grind" situation. And I really don't like that. In the proposed version of R&D you would be able to research parts using money any time you want (but you would have to wait for a few days before the part becomes available). But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I foolishly assumed that science grind is a bad thing. Maybe it's actually fun biome hopping on Mun and Minmus to fullfil the whole tree and then deal with random contracts only.

Yussss! May I suggest Kerbalism as a life support mod? I yet have to play with it some more, but it seems to fit the stock game really well.

Then why not narrow the part testing missions to only one static test (or two if they are air-breathing jet engines - one static, one in atmosphere)? The problem with the current testing contracts is that you don't know if you will be using the engine in the place the contract asks you to because of the lack of information. When for example you are told to test the Vector in space, but you dropped it because it was in the first stage of the rocket <- this actually happened to me too often and was very frustrating. Heck, I wouldn't mind if they got completely removed from the game because I feel like the R&D should do all that work for me. Anyway, my point is to narrow the test missions to as much as possible. Also: I didn't say there would be max 3 missions at each step. I said there should be as many options as possible (unlike it is now in stock) to provide the variety and give the player free will to choose what path he/she wants to go, so please, don't put words into my mouth.

Do you do the "Test the X engine on Kerbin's escape trajectory" missions?

OhmygodhowdidIevenmissthispost? I agree.

That's why each program would have a few different missions at each step. You would be able to choose what you want to do and once it's done a new continuation mission would pop in it's place (Mr. Scruffy's mission tree idea). I didn't say that. I too think rescue missions are ridiculous. It does seem wrong. Only some parts would be unlocked through testIng missions. And most of them could probably be unlocked even without the need of leaving Kerbin's SOI (I can't really think of any stock part that doesn't have a real life counterpart which has been developed here on Earth or its vicinity). The players would HAVE to use them. The experiments would be the main goal of the program chosen by the player. If they are not performed then the program is not marked as finished. Each program's end mission would probably have to be split into several objectives. Each objective for each experiment (just to make it more forgiving in case when the player forgets to bring one of them, or it simply isn't available yet). That's a great idea and I'm (almost) all for it. I agree. That's one of the reasons why experiments could be used to unlock certain parts (the Thermometer + Barometer (at supersonic speeds) = Whiplash example). This one was a real pain to edit, for some reason.

I've already stated that I agree with you on the matter of more involving experiments, but I still don't agree about the points. I get your point about collecting gems, but there's one problem: KSP is not a platformer. It makes perfect sense to include some sort of experience points or currency in a platformer or an RPG game, but KSP is none of these. There should be a line drawn somewhere. I feel like people just got used to the current system and are scared of changes for some reason. Same with the Dev team. "Let's play it safe and do a bunch of tweaks instead of creating a proper overhaul". And I'm not satysfied with the "tweaks" anymore, because I hoped for the career to work differently. Science system in KSP is a grind (and the main reason why I hate RPG games so much). If instead we had funds and time required to unlock the tech it would give a sense of progression. Science should be the main reason and goal of the programs. We go places to understand the universe better and sometimes to unlock a better tech (growing super-conductive crystals in space is science too, right?). So let's have another thought experiment, shall we? You start a new career game. Launch a bunch of sounding rockets and fly a simple jet plane. After some time you decide that the Mun is worth visiting and pick The Munar Exploration Program. After you've activated it the program gives you a bunch of missions. For example: Fly a pilot to the edge of space so he can experience zero gee and collect his report, make a VTOL and do a bunch of hops around the KSC to prepare the crew for the landing on the Silver Globe, test an engine you've just research (that will be used on the Mun), go into orbit, perform a docking and go back, and all that jazz. Now that you have enough knowledge and the tech you decide if you want to go there, or do some more testing/experiments/whatever you want to do. If you decide to go to the Mun you are obliged to take a bunch of experiments with you, because science is the main goal of the program you've picked. There would be, of course, other programs that don't require science (commercial), but that's not the point here. The point is: The only change we would feel is that we are actually achieving something in our career games. Many people don't leave the Kerbin's SOI and I feel it's not only because the lack of information. The game simply doesn't reward your courage, because you can grind the heck out of Mun and Minmus with the generic science points. And don't you even start with "But if the science rewards were tweaked in Kerbin's SOI the player would run out of it quick and go interplanetary!" NO! The players should have clear goals and objectives stated in the programs they would be able to pick themselves. Science should be the reason why you get those annual funds and cash boosts for accepting the programs. Right now it's just another currency that can be exchanged for something else. KSP is a game but not a platformer, nor an RPG. Let's draw the line somewhere.

Is it my imagination, or does Tytonid actually do the victory rolls when it wins?

I was never keen on the whole self-launching, self-piloting rockets, but now that I think about it more I come to conclusion that this could enhance the game really well. As long as we would be able to set up the whole schedule, flight programs and manouvers while at the same time jump into the seat of one of those vessels, that could be actually pretty nice and enjoyable. I can imagine that the whole economics aspect would need a major overhaul to it though. I don't really believe such thing will happen, but if it does I will be very, very happy.

Ok, I see your point, but do we really need science points to be a thing? It's a ridiculously unrealistic mechanic. Tech should be researched with money and time, not some silly generic points. How does collecting atmospheric data from other worlds helps you to research an ion engine? And about the lump sums of cash vs annual funds: If the system was based on what I proposed in the previous post of mine the adding mechanic would work the same exact way. Except you would have the annual cash (11k per week/month/whatev) and the program would give you the money to research the tech once (50k). You get 50k to spend on tech (or something else if you'd like but don't cry when the HQ isn't satisfied) and you still have your 11k to do whatever you want in the meantime. Either that or the program would simply give you 10k (each month) for 5 months instead of throwing a mountain of cash right at you. It's pretty much the same thing IMO. Now all we have to worry is how much time each tech needs to be fully researched. So let's visualise it: You are in the R&D looking at what you need/want to research for the upcoming mission. The total amount of money you have is on the top (you are aware you get 11k + 10k each month from the program). You click on a bunch of nodes/groups/whatever we want to call them and below the sum you have (green) a number pops out which says "-11.500" (red). On the right side there's another display which states the amount of days it will take for the tech to be researched. Then you simply decide if you can afford it, or not.

Preferably when programs are accepted. That may be true, but it doesn't stop players from accepting 60 years long contracts that give you money. I did that so many times and were telling myself "Yeah, yeah. I'll do this one at some point" and guess what? Never bothered completing them! Free cash, woooo! I also think you are overcomplicating this. It's simpler than what you said (at least the way I think it could be implemented): there's a transfer window coming up -> you go to the R&D and decide what tech you'll need for this kind of mission -> click on a bunch of nodes and they say: X days Y funds needed -> you go to the Admin Building to check how much money the exploration program will give you if you accept it to compare the numbers. The program would only give you that extra cash needed for the tech. You would already have your money from the monthly budget to build the vessel. At least that's how I would like to see it implemented. Don't think budgets for the crew and the staff are needed. Let's not overcomplicate it just for the sake of it.

Why would you want to do that tho? To store it? Better process it into LF/Ox/Mono and fill your tanks up while you can.

Use ALT on multiple tanks, then click 'In' on the tank you want to fill up.

AM I?????

Poll added.