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I've been pretty vocal regarding science mode. I'm willing to give him (Chris) the benefit of doubt on the responses as I've got no reason to assume he is being disingenuous. I'd love to think a lot of people here are in the exact same place, I don't think *most* people in the forum want to see the game fail (although I question a few if I'm honest). So where do we go from here? Well, we do all we can do, talk amongst ourselves and wait. Wait to see what 0.1.5 brings and wait for @Nertea Dev Blog regarding science is released. I mean if one of the lead developers can see the benefit of doing that, then I think as a community we to listen. Maybe some really interesting stuff is buried in whatever form that takes. I'd be more than willing to listen provided that some tangible information as to what is going to be going on in science is shared. I can't believe at this point that science isn't a finalised thing, just going through the later stages of its inception. As soon as science and progression drop, the game changes and takes an immediate step forward so I can't imagine it isn't high on the list of things to do.

The devs are under no obligation at all to talk to us. If they do so, it’s a courtesy, and we are under the obligation to treat it as such. If we don’t, you shouldn’t be surprised if they choose not to.

The game must have problems because of the community, not because of the developers. And then these people talk about the toxic atmosphere

Which rule are they breaking? If you're mentioning the "playable game", yes ksp2 is playable, it's not bugs that make it not a game. A not "playable game" would mean a tech demo where there is no gameplay, like if the only thing you could do is observing a menu or just looking at Kerbin. It's not "rocket wobble, literally unplayable", people can still have hours worth of gameplay in ksp2. Either way, I don't want to start a semantic argument. What I was trying to talk about initially is YOUR responsibility. YOU should not buy games on promises. YOU should not preorder. Yes games can be scummy, and that's why people shouldn't preorder anything or buy a game without knowing what they are going into, like by seeing reviews. That's my point. I see too much people preordering thinking, "This time it's different", it never will.

I realized I never shared my actual thoughts on this thread. Yeah the communication slowdown sucks, I think its a reason for a lot of tensions. I don't think its because the devs are too scared to speak or whatever (honestly the cms talk about as much in the forums pre comm slowdown). If you want the offical CM answer, check below, if you want my analysis I think its pretty explainable by two things. 1. The CMs have been down a member for around two months now, the most drastic slowdown compared to the time of weekly upnates was right after the CM left the team. Having a third of your team leave will seriously mess up your workflows. 2. The CM team is switching to a new format for large scale communications. I think the call to switch to a video format is a good one, the recent reentry video was pretty well received, however the swap to a different workflow will slow you down a lot. I think in retrospect not doing a fullswap from "upnates" to videos wouldve been good that way natural delays and the like in videos dont get seen as the devs abandoning all communications. Both of these fortunately are temporary things, but both hiring a new CM and being able to better regularize video production will take a while to happen. (btw we got a minor update on the getting a third CM back today see below) Mildly off topic but also not, for my take on the interplatform communication, its fine. I think there's a fundamental disconnect between "What we (involved community members) would like to know" and "What's actually productive to broadcast out" that I generally try to fill. For example, the unity change wasn't highlighted a lot, it was only posted in the modding discord and the modding subforum on here. I think a lot of people would want to know that the unity is changing as we are a curious bunch, but if you just put something out like that on the unity change, even if you specify its just a change that effects modders, people will either go "Okay and?" or "This means that hdrp is happening in 1.5!!", both of which arent good responses from your community. I do think where interplatform communication could improve is 1. Communicating the mild scales news gap that dev tracker fills to reddit and twitter feels lacking (disclaimer, I dont use either of these platform for ksp), I think a link to dev tracker or something like that in the reddit header would be neat. 2. I think that casual communication is inherently hard on the forums because threads are very focused and formal (compared to the more branching and casual discord conversations), however I still think some casual communication would be nice. Like, I dont think there's any thread to where you could go @ dakota hows the hunt for the new cm going? And it wouldnt be off topic for the thread. But I do think there are times where a cm can casually interject in a thread and add a bit more context. For example I think a tiny two-three sentence comment like the first discord image (would probably have to be worded differently to account for cultural differences) would do a lot for this thread. I think just casual clarifications and microscale news here on the forums would do a long way in the perceived communications gap.

(Take two on convincing the community to be nice (take one) because the first one did not work and I’m more stressed about it this time) Ok so, as it seems, I’m not having an easy time motivating myself to stay active on this community. You may be familiar with my first post. The schism is still here, and therefore I still have more stuff to complain about. So, I’m going to make another post, even longer this time, hopefully this time with better formatting and active correction to remove bias. I really just want this whole thing to calm down. the schism As everyone who’s ever poked KSP2 or these forums with a 39-and-a-half-foot-pole has noticed, there’s a big schism in the community between what is basically two parties engaging in passive aggressive discourse on basically every single forum topic in this entire freaking subforum, even on other sections of the greater forums as a whole. The two sides, as I see it, are: On one side, there are people who have trust in the developers, and believe in a future for the development of KSP2. They see patience as a necessity to a good community, despite the fact a full release was expected 3 years ago. They think the devs aren’t bad people, and they deserve trust and patience. The vision they dreamed of for KSP2 is coming, and all they need is to sit tight and encourage the developers. Eventually, one day, the version of KSP2 they get heart palpitations just thinking about will be here. A few (not all!) members of this side deny there is anything wrong with KSP2, and see genuine constructive criticism as bad. On the other side, there are people who have little to no trust in the developer team’s competency. They see the 6 months of little tangible feature development as a sign that KSP2 is dead, dying, or doomed. The devs did an awful job launching, and the game probably won’t survive very long before T2 pulls the plug on funding. They typically provide genuine constructive criticism of the game, usually with tone issues. Often they think the developers overpromised or are otherwise incapable of meeting their promises, and that the dev team is inefficient or slow at development. A few (not all!) members of this side think KSP2 is a cash grab scheme, or think everyone who bought into the game early has been intentionally misled and can’t see reality. Where do I stand? Well, in the past, I’ve been pretty firmly in the first group, and I think I still am to some degree. However, as I step back a bit, I see the development is going really rough. The game is certainly lackluster in comparison to modding its predecessor, and I enjoy and play KSP1 way more right now. The devs are doing all they can to maintain a positive public image, and can’t, because let’s be honest, the launch was really frickityfracking awful. Communication issues, performance scares, and the incredibly buggy nature of the release has huge and long-lasting effects. Player count is not going up. Things are Not Great. But, how I see it, in my personal opinion, the devs still deserve some slack. The devs faced extreme hardships, and they deserve patience. In my opinion, any predatory release tactics are probably T2’s fault (like, honestly, it’s kinda like, their whole identity at this point in the gaming community). KSP2 is objectively not very good right now, but recently the devs have managed to remove a TON of huge and pressing bugs. Performance has freaking skyrocketed, pun intended, and multiple people I know are now capable of running it on their machines. Foundations have been getting put in place for future updates. I have trust in the developers and a good belief that KSP2 will, one day, a year or three down the line, meet its promises, and I will be encouraging and patient. But honestly I’m not here to talk about all that. I’ve got like, a much more pressing problem to talk about. the actual issue of the schism I’m not here to focus and fixate on the squabbles. I hate to participate in them, they make me feel icky. I don’t want to fuel the fire, because it’s an objectively really really big and long-winded fire that I subjectively just want to see the end of. I think my last post contributed to the fire, because more of it than I’d like was centered around “no guys devs actually good”, but I realize standing behind my opinion and tainting the possibility of neutrality of my post probably detracted a lot from it and was in general disagreeable to the side I wasn’t a part of. That’s why I’ve cut down on that, and I’ll be spending the next obscene number of pages focusing on this community. The fact there’s a schism at all is harrowing, is it not? Let’s think about what both sides have in common: we’re all fans of KSP or KSP2. We’re all astrophysics majors, rocket scientists, dorky nerds who like space, armchair engineers, computer scientists, and geeky nerds who play with model rockets in their backyard. We all are disappointed by the state of KSP2. We all looked at the trailer and probably died of heart attack at least three times each. Nobody can say that KSP2 is really superior to KSP1 with mods, in terms of performance, features, playability, stability, support, customizability and in some cases even graphics too. We all have been impacted by the really awful launch. We all participate in the community, regardless of whether we argue or just chat or just lurk, and want to play a fun game. What differences do we have? Well, one side thinks KSP2 will be good and the devs deserve slack, and one side thinks KSP2 won’t be good or that the devs are meanies. Well, when you stack it up like that, it seems kinda silly how we’ve driven a wedge between the two parties who both just wish they could enjoy KSP2 as much as the release trailer promised. We’re all KSP dorks who just wanted a cool sequel like the one in the trailer. We can all agree we don’t have that yet. Is it coming? Depends on who you ask. I think so, but my opinion is not relevant to this part of the post. I’ve stayed off the forums for a while. I’ve lurked a lot, checking the forums basically daily, since my last post. Most of my interactions with the community since then have been posting youtube videos and responding to comments on the original post. I tried to come back and have a good time, but the sense there was this unkillable beast of flame wars and tension writhing in one of the most active categories of this forum is at least a little unsettling. It says a lot about the lack of coherence and unity in the community if people can split themselves for OVER HALF A YEAR over an issue like this. And don’t get me wrong, it’s a huge and stressful issue. But how I see it, this is no excuse for how we (me included) have been treating others on the forum. we are the schism. that's us. Here’s a friendly reminder: Community is everyone. Community is you specifically. Community is also me. Community is also my friend Steve. Community is also the mod & dev teams. Community is every member who reads this page or responds. Community is a Lot of people. In fact, community, as it so happens, is all of us. We did this. Nobody is at not at fault to some degree. We’re to blame. We’re responsible for fixing this, me included, you included, and we’re responsible for being nice to the community (this includes everyone in the community). As a community it is OUR duty and responsibility to not be mean or blind about it. WE are the community. Please take a second to just read over this paragraph and internalize it. This post here is the next chapter of my participation in trying to patch the schism, but no one single dweebus such as myself can do this alone. But seeing the state of these forums doesn’t give me confidence we can recover naturally anyways. We’ve already torn this huge gap in the community, and if we don’t close it, that gap will stay there. If it’s announced tomorrow that funding gets slashed severely, there will still be individuals who claim that the devs will rise from the ashes and miraculously make one of the most ambitious video games in gaming history. If KSP2 miraculously gets an update tomorrow that makes it completely exactly how we all wanted it, colonies and interstellar included, hundreds of handcrafted star systems, there will still be individuals who claim it doesn’t meet standards and bash it on the forums. Not one year ago, the KSP forums community was a freaking amazing place to be. We’d all go screw around with silly mods, make cool videos, share epic screenshots, say “guys won’t KSP2 be so cool when it releases” while ogling at some dev videos, and collaborate together with massive and elaborate community projects, and I would be hard pressed to find a single genuine insult anywhere on the forums, which still had like bajillions of active members. I really miss that community. I want it back, if that’s okay with you guys. I don’t like this place very much right now, and I can’t convince myself to stay active here for very long, because I simply don’t like the vibes that like 40% of the forums radiates and the other 60% is actively trying to ignore or pretend isn't a problem. Multiple people have left the forums before my eyes due to this issue, some even having directly contacted me to talk to me about it, because what I described in my first post is exactly why they left. This is a genuine issue. These forums are not as fun to stay in as they used to be, and the sense of unity and community and fun is severely damaged. This is a genuine concern I genuinely raise about the genuine state and genuine future of these forums. I don’t know how else to emphasize “guys this is a problem, we should fix it together”. If this post hasn’t convinced you “maybe we should be nicer to eachother” then I don’t know what to do, since this is the last thing I can think of to do, unless I wanna write four thousand words next time I make a big post. Which I don’t feel like doing. Please don’t make me have to write another post. I have carpal tunnel. ok, cool, whatever, so what do you propose we do then, dweebus? I genuinely don’t know. My guess is to start along the lines of “be nice” but that’s a lot easier said than done. I’ve seen a lot of mean comments thrown at people. I’ve seen a lot of passive aggressive ickiness from both sides. I’ve seen a lot of people just joke and make fun of other people for having an opinion that is not theirs. I’ve seen people start cursing out eachother or even hurling slurs over something as silly as “should there be this thing in this silly computer program about silly green aliens doing rocketry” or perhaps “why isn’t this thing here in this silly computer program yet”. And, mind you, this is all the stuff I’ve seen AFTER the moderation team filtered out the worst and most rulebreaking attacks. I’m not a mod, so I have absolutely no clue what the worst of the worst looks like. All I know is what I’ve seen can only be the tip of the iceberg. So what I propose is maybe just like, let’s all collectively resist the urge to yell at people who don’t share our opinion. Let’s also collectively resist the urge to yell at people who yell at us. Those usually are conducive to a good community, I would assume. Maybe we can set some collective terms for what we want, such as “constructive criticism is good but let’s be nice about it”, or maybe “let’s all agree KSP2 isn’t perfect yet”, or even perhaps the apparently very controversial and difficult to understand “i don’t like to be called a [insert long string of swear words]”. Those seem like reasonable demands to make of our friends and allies here in the community. But I don’t have a good idea of what we as a community should do. These situations probably have a lot more nuance to them than I can immediately think of, and my solutions aren't easy nor universal. I don't have an objectively untinted view of the situation, and I don't have a bird's eye view like moderators or developers might. I, as a dweebus member of the forums with no qualifications, really do want you all to collaborate and work together to find a way to make things better here. I want people to start thinking of ways to make the community a less toxic and flame-infested place, and I can’t do it alone. I'm not that good with people. Plus, you can’t do it alone either, since you too are just one person. Can we perhaps do this together please? I’d like to think this post is less of “i’m complaining, but loudly, and then some people agreed with me” like last time, and more “call to action to help actually make the community less mean to eachother” or perhaps even “open letter” in style and purpose. Like seriously I really just want me and everyone else to be able to enjoy the community like we did before. I really want us to be a unified, collaborative community again. It really hurts to see people just being like this to eachother. a conclusion i guess Ok, so, to recap: we’re all being mean to eachother, despite the fact we’re pretty similar in the end. This is bad, because being nice to eachother is good. We should all make an effort to be nicer, so that people stop leaving and people start enjoying the forums more. Nobody likes to be insulted, and we are all friends here on the forums. I propose we collaborate to do this, since we can’t really do all this alone. Please help us help eachother, which would include you. Stay tuned next time, for in 4 months I'll write 5k words on this exact same issue!! (this is a joke) (this post is prone to edits for grammar, spelling and tone. it is open to polite constructive criticism. please do not insult me or anyone else in the comments for the love of heck.) TL;DR: please be nice thanks

And when I have a question about my milk, the supermarket can answer it, they don't give me some lame excuse like "oh, tempers are high that we gave you expired milk, lets talk about it later" I'm done here. Mark me down, one for the "where the comms at?"

One thing I'm hoping for is a way to edit/add to vehicles in flight like KSP1's engineer construction mode (DLC?) Has there been any talk of this making its way into KSP2? Would it be handled by engineers or could some kind of colony building also offer something similar to vessels landed on the colony pads/runways?

If that's the case, why would they pre-emptively disappoint everybody by talking about it? Better to shut up, release it, and let the chips fall where they may. And if it's not the case, why try to describe it to a public that's not receptive to anything they say? Once again, better to shut up, release it, and give everybody a pleasant surprise. I think it's pretty obvious — the mood right now is such that anything they say will be used against them. Game systems are especially tricky because really often something that sounds fun on paper, isn't, and conversely, changes that sound bad on paper actually improve the experience (or have other benefits). Look what happened with the dev update on heating — a bunch of people immediately started screaming about dumbed-down streamlined systems that totally ruin the experience, without ever having actually experienced how it works in practice and in which situations it even makes a noticeable difference. (My suspicion is, "almost none." As in, if you did a re-entry with the old thermals and the new thermals and asked the player to guess which is which, most players wouldn't be able to tell. While on the upside it makes it much easier to compute equilibriums and handle high time warp factors.) And if they say it's deep in production and close to QA, many of you will loudly say "LIES!" and hate them even more. Summa summarum, I think it's pointless of them to even try to talk to the fans right now. Get the game right first, release a solid roadmap update or two, however long it takes, then start communicating again. The fans are going to vent their outrage regardless of what they say.

With all the talk about mk2 landers, would it be possible to use the robotic parts to incraese stability/footprint? I don't have the DLCs, but maybe it is possible for at least some extra landing legs and equipment to telescope or fold out from the fuselage

I know that it is complicated which is why I don't care about long explanations why it is complicated. So here is a RL example: You ask a politician the question how they want to prevent climate change. And the person is not answering the question how they actually want to prevent it but only starts to talk about how difficult it is and that you also have to think about industry, etc. Everyone knows that. That was not the question. The question was what they want to do. If you ask that question a politician and he is unable to say what he/she wants to do then at least I start to think that this person has no plan at all yet. And that is basically what I meant. And why I think they are just now starting to think about how they will implement the roadmap.

Honestly I think it is bad. Well it also highlights the currently bad state of development process, so maybe it is good? The reason for me is: Basically every answer about a feature in the post goes like this: Q: "What will be the mechanics of feature X" A: "Well if you do X you have to think about A, B and C and balance them." Then there are some further explanations about A, B and C and how they interact. And that's it. He is usually not answering the question but only explaining some of the things which you have to consider. So the amount of information I got from it was pretty limited because all the talk about "you have to balance different things" is not that complicated actually. Doing the balancing is however difficult and he does not really say how they will even try to balance it. And I think that is what some of us don't like. Another example of this is "New features in 1.5". But they don't say which feature. The feature could simply be the new Unity version. Maybe they do talk a lot. But the amount of information is very limited. Actually I am starting to think that they haven't even started to think about anything on the roadmap yet. Which is probably why we have not seen any gameplay for science yet.

So, let's talk about this statement shall we? You purchase a game, a small indie unity game for 19.99$ Steam, will take 30-33% of that which is roughly 6.66$ Epic waves the fee on the store and will take roughly 9%, which is just a bit under that 1.99$ If you have a publisher, they're taking anywhere from 20% to 50% (especially if you have a horrible contract) Then, Unity is charging you 0.20$ per Install.. What's the actual developer left with?

Congratulations on your discovery! Looks really cool. So a 324 ton "asteroid" hidden somewhere in the Kerbol system? Talk about a needle in the haystack

However, considering a few years ago the other "government officials meeting" in Singapore - Their news is quite a lot of nighttime footage of bustling Singapore. And said that "hey look that's Singapore." Meanwhile, many of them have been to China and Russia as foreign students. So, it's very likely that what you think they're going to talk to you about, "I can't find the money for my next meal", but they actually going to talk to you about "how well DJI drones can be modified and carried".

Talk about exiting in style!

Lot of talk of ungulates on this board, lately

So the next KERB will come out at friday 15.09.2023? I really had to read the whole thread and all the linked discord images. What I got was: KERB is a friday thing Comes out every 2 weeks unless there is a release in the week the KERB would happen, then 2 weeks after the release Last KERB was 8/11 and now next date is 9/15 Did I get this right? And about the hint about 0.1.5 features: Is there any indication what these features are? Because usually you do not tease stuff you are not sure if you can actually deliver it. You only talk about things which you are 100% sure will come. At least that is what we do where I work. So what are the features which will be included in 0.1.5?

And water takeoff's Well we dont talk about that.

https://news.sky.com/story/libya-flooding-more-than-5-300-feared-dead-after-dams-burst-12959679 I've seen some weather enthusiasts talk about an unprecedented 400, maybe even 600 mm of precipitation in the desert areas around here - that's almost two or even ten years' worth of total precipitation in the area all at once. More than 400mm of precipitation (in 6 hours) is enough for the coastal city with subtropical monsoon climate where I live to pump three to four days of water out of the metro stations and underground parking lots. It is hard to imagine how this happened in desert cities. Whatever you think about climate change, there's really something happening in every corner of this planet.

Some content has been removed, and a number of posts quoting said content have also been removed. Feel free to state your opinions as you wish. We don’t care if your opinion is for or against. It doesn’t matter. That’s what the forums are here for. What we don’t allow is to make comments about a person, or people in general. Do not tell others how to post, or what to post. Do not make comments about others motives or intent. If you disagree with another person, use facts, logic and reasoning to counter their arguments. Even then, they may still disagree with you, and that’s OK. Reasonable minds can disagree. That means we don’t need to delve into the same arguments in every thread. If a comment had been addressed in a previous thread, it’s often best to reference that thread and continue the discussion there, as the topic has been covered. Granted, given the state of the game right now, that might not give us a lot to talk about. Until we do get more stuff to talk about, rehashing the same arguments over and over won’t do any good.

Oh no, I'm totally in the wrong for not knowing, I get that, however think for a second why didn't I know: I'm not on the discord, and even then, it seems the discord is also not the place to get the complete news about the game, and that's even if you do spend the time going back and forth tracking every message by the about 5 different people that talk officially about the game's progress, updates, and such. Plus, it's hard to think about joining the discord when considering the stuff that's allowed in there, which you know about.

My guy, you're telling me that whilst posting lost bits from the discord that unless you scroll the dev tracker every single day, you're 90% sure gonna miss. We have threads about small posts on twitter, we have threads about reddit posts/announcements, we have threads about literal discord screencaps, we have the K.E.R.B., we have Patch Notes, we have AMAs. It sure does sound like a lot, yet here we are, trying to go piece by piece to see what the heck they're doing with bugfixes because they can't bother to make complete patchnotes, or keep the K.E.R.B. updated, or talk in any sort of official manner because they canned the upnates, and they refuse to answer anything useful about the game in AMAs. I'm seeing incompetence first, with a smell of "maybe they're doing it on purpose" second.

While Jeb and DONN try to detain MJ-0, suddenly, MJ-0 transfers his robotic soul (I guess his code?) into the nearby Ranger-1! He takes control of the autopilot, and attempts to depressurize the cabin, but Val, Bill, and Bob bail out. GALE notices all the trouble and flies down in Ranger-2 to pick up the five crew members. They rush into orbit and find MJ-0 trying to dock to the Delta-19. However, DONN had taken precautions when he and Jeb left the Ranger and disabled the auto-dock sequence. MJ-0 attempted to dock manually. "MJ-0, do not attempt docking," Val radioed to MJ-0. "Do not attempt-" "Valentina?" MJ-0 said. "I don't know what Jebediah told you, but I am taking command of Delta-19, and then we'll talk about the fate of you and your friends. This is not about my life or Jebediah's life. This is about all MechJeb-kind! There is a moment-" Silence. An explosion, silenced by the vacuum of space. Ranger-1 had rammed into the Portside docking port and caused a depressurization. The Ranger crashed into a solar array and into the centrifuge habitat, which immediately depressurized. MJ-0 was now, for sure, dead. The atmosphere blasting out of the centrifuge forced the Delta-19 into a spin on its X-axis. It was also powerful enough to knock it out of its orbit. As Jeb observed the spinning Delta-19, blowing debris all over the place, epic organ/piano music starts playing. Jeb knows what to do.

Probes require commnet infrastructure, turning one launch into potentially a hundred. Even with a level 3 tracking station, you'd require the biggest antenna to talk back to the DSN, and even then you'd need other comm relays in the way to keep control all the time. The command pods being all less than 10 tons mean they're negligible as payloads and you always have control no matter what.