The Ultimate Jool 5 Challenge - 1.0 to 1.3

[sdj64]

6 minutes ago, qzgy said:

Holy crap. Do you have a link to the mission report for the first one? I'm curious to see how it went.

Right here.  It's the all-time low mass record holder, too.  It was done in version 1.1 by @Nefrums

 

[Nucleartaxi]

37 minutes ago, sdj64 said:

FYI, the smallest number of engines used in a Jool 5 mission so far (without ISRU) is 3:  a Rapier, a Spark, and a Dawn.  With ISRU, it has been done with just 1 mammoth!

@sdj64 Wow! I don't know if I can do that well but I'll still attempt to design something decent. 

Edited October 8, 2017 by Nucleartaxi

[Cpt Kerbalkrunch]

2 hours ago, sdj64 said:

@Cpt Kerbalkrunch Congratulations, you have completed the Jool 5 Challenge on Jeb's Level!  The mission actually seems fairly efficient, given the constraints of the heavy pod and lack of nuclear propulsion.  The swappable pod was an effective strategy for this mission profile, and I don't think anyone has done 5 kerbals and 3 per landing before. Your 1510 Science points puts you in second place!  ...Jeb's level is not very popular these days.

I look forward to your proposed Eve mission.  Given that you're using the same Mk1-2 pod for every landing, I might recommend you try The Ultimate Challenge - with Jool and Eve done, you'll have all the hard landings out of the way!

Sweet, thanks. The mission was a blast. I love the look of the Mk1-2, and the challenge of using it is always enjoyable. Finished my Eve ascent vehicle today, and I'm proud to say it works well. Now I just have to design the descent stage to get it on the surface in one piece. And then design a launch vehicle that can lift the entire monstrosity off of Kerbin and get it to Eve in the first place. God, I love this game. 

[rudi1291]

Would it be allowed by the rules of this challenge to do this mission in a somewhat upscaled system? Say, 6.4x? Not sure if thats even possible with a reasonable part count, but i wanted to try that for quite some time now...

Edited October 8, 2017 by rudi1291

[sdj64]

On 10/8/2017 at 3:25 AM, rudi1291 said:

Would it be allowed by the rules of this challenge to do this mission in a somewhat upscaled system? Say, 6.4x? Not sure if thats even possible with a reasonable part count, but i wanted to try that for quite some time now...

Yes, that would be cool to see.  As long as your rescale includes all of Jool's moons orbiting Jool in the same order and at least 1x their stock size (some rescales change Bop and Pol differently, for instance - just make sure they are not smaller than stock), it is allowed.

 

[rudi1291]

Mission report will be here:

It may take me a while to do it though, so i´ll post again if i´m done!

[epicbens123]

I plan to use a spaceX like reusable rocket & ISRU ground unit to cut down on cost. I recover both rocket and ISRU for 100% does it still count?

[dozerman]

On Jeb's level, does science collected from Jool count (gravity surveys, dipping into the atmosphere, etc), or does it all need to be only from the moons? What about collected from in orbit around the moons? What about science earned from data in the science lab?

[dozerman]

1 hour ago, dozerman said:

On Jeb's level, does science collected from Jool count (gravity surveys, dipping into the atmosphere, etc), or does it all need to be only from the moons? What about collected from in orbit around the moons? What about science earned from data in the science lab?

In addition, I also already have several relays in orbit near Jool. Would it be against the rules to use them or do they need to be terminated prior to the launch? I could see their usage being considered cheating since they would decrease the final weight of the ship. Also, speaking of relays, if I can't use those relays would it be okay to bring a small swarm of relays to leave behind after the mission?

 

[sdj64]

6 hours ago, dozerman said:

On Jeb's level, does science collected from Jool count (gravity surveys, dipping into the atmosphere, etc), or does it all need to be only from the moons? What about collected from in orbit around the moons? What about science earned from data in the science lab?

Yes, science from Jool including its high and low orbit, and atmosphere, counts.  Moon orbit space science also counts.  Science earned from a lab does not count, and anyway you would have to land the lab because transmitting science does not count.

4 hours ago, dozerman said:

In addition, I also already have several relays in orbit near Jool. Would it be against the rules to use them or do they need to be terminated prior to the launch? I could see their usage being considered cheating since they would decrease the final weight of the ship. Also, speaking of relays, if I can't use those relays would it be okay to bring a small swarm of relays to leave behind after the mission?

Since turning ComNet off entirely is allowed, you can use your relays.  You can also use any ore scans you have already performed, or send a scanning satellite separately ahead of the mission.

[dozerman]

7 hours ago, sdj64 said:

Yes, science from Jool including its high and low orbit, and atmosphere, counts.  Moon orbit space science also counts.  Science earned from a lab does not count, and anyway you would have to land the lab because transmitting science does not count.

Since turning ComNet off entirely is allowed, you can use your relays.  You can also use any ore scans you have already performed, or send a scanning satellite separately ahead of the mission.

Awesome. Thanks.

 

[GRS]

What an interesting challenge, now i am looking forward to DOCKLESS JOOL 5 MISSION, WITHOUT NERVA (due to my impatient nature) and currently building tylo lander stage, the landings will be :

Tylo->Laythe->Vall->Bop->Pol

[PhoenixRise86]

I'm working on my first Jool 5 currently. It's in career mode, single-launch Falcon Heavy-style with center booster recovery, no ISRU, no nuclear or ion engines, no more than 1 asparagus-booster pair per stage, level 2/3/Jeb will depend on how well my lander SAS works. I'll send some screenshots later tonight when I'm back at my pc.

[JacobJHC]

9 hours ago, PhoenixRise86 said:

I'm working on my first Jool 5 currently. It's in career mode, single-launch Falcon Heavy-style with center booster recovery, no ISRU, no nuclear or ion engines, no more than 1 asparagus-booster pair per stage, level 2/3/Jeb will depend on how well my lander SAS works. I'll send some screenshots later tonight when I'm back at my pc.

Best of luck to you

[PhoenixRise86]

I forgot to mention, my mod list includes: BetterBurnTime, FSHangerExtender, KerbalEngineerRedux, KerbalJointReinforcement, ModularFlightIntegrator, RealChute, Space Y (regular only, not extended, only for landing legs), and VenStockRevamp (visual enhacements and stock-balanced intermediate power engines and fuel tank shapes).

So whichever version that counts as is fine.

Forgot to ask: Can a kerbal land in a seat in a service bay, and does adjusting the seat position count against part-clipping?

Edited November 20, 2017 by PhoenixRise86
Forgot a sentence, typo.

[McBalsam]

Here's my 3rd level Jool-5 mission in the form a video. I hope it's enough, but I can make a more detailed image album if necessary. Flown in KSP 1.3

Mission info:

• Single launch stock SSTO with full part recovery. No refueling or ISRU needed.
• All moons have separate landers, and the Tylo lander uses an Ion Tug for transfers. Landers are packed in one long + one short Mk3 Cargo Bay.
• Mothership separates from lifter in LKO and continues to the Joolian system. Straight transfer to Jool without gravity assists. 
• All landers (except Laythe Jet) separate from mothership in Jool SOI. Laythe's gravity used to capture to Jool and transfer to the moons. 
• Landers return to mothership in Laythe orbit. Straight transfer from Jool to Kerbin, where orbit is achieved by burning retrograde (~1.1 km/s) and aerocapture.
• Once in circular LKO, mothership unites with lifter. Mothership has no RCS, so final docking is done with the lifter.
• A crew of six Kerbals with one for each moon and one for Ion Tug. Four are in Mk2 Crew Cabin, one in the Jet and one in the Tug.
• Ship cost: 411,089
• Mothership delta-V in LKO after separating from the lifter: 4,353 m/s

Link to craft file in KerbalX: Vellamo I

Visual mods:
Environmental Visual Enhancements
Distant Object Enhancer
KSPRC Terrain textures
Rareden's Real 8k Skybox
Scatterer
Spectra Visual Compilation
Spaceplane Corrections
Texture Replacer Replaced
WindowShine

Gameplay mods:
BetterBurnTime
BetterTimeWarp
EasyVesselSwitch
Kerbal Alarm Clock
KerbalEngineer
PreciseManeuver
TransferWindowPlanner
HyperEdit (not used in the mission)
MechJeb (not used in the mission)

Edited November 23, 2017 by McBalsam
spelling

[GRS]

On 11/18/2017 at 11:17 PM, PhoenixRise86 said:

I'm working on my first Jool 5 currently. It's in career mode, single-launch Falcon Heavy-style with center booster recovery, no ISRU, no nuclear or ion engines, no more than 1 asparagus-booster pair per stage, level 2/3/Jeb will depend on how well my lander SAS works. I'll send some screenshots later tonight when I'm back at my pc.

Good luck, hope its interesting

[Destructogaming]

i should try this, even though i'm horrible at the game.

verify if this follows the rules.

asteroid bases are placed around jool and each moon prior to the mission

a 5-kerbal vessel is launched and sent on a direct jool encounter

the vessel encounters laythe's asteroid base and refuels, then lands and launches from there.

the same is repeated for all 5 moons, in the order it's supposed to.

[septemberWaves]

@Destructogaming I am almost certain that idea violates the rules. Pretty sure the idea is going to Jool with a single vessel and only refueling from Jool's moons. Sending preceding missions to put fuel depots there will presumably count against the "single vessel" concept.

Also, even if it does get allowed, you might have a harder time getting an asteroid around Tylo than completing the actual Jool 5 mission.

Edited November 25, 2017 by eloquentJane

[Destructogaming]

30 minutes ago, eloquentJane said:

@Destructogaming I am almost certain that idea violates the rules. Pretty sure the idea is going to Jool with a single vessel and only refueling from Jool's moons. Sending preceding missions to put fuel depots there will presumably count against the "single vessel" concept.

Also, even if it does get allowed, you might have a harder time getting an asteroid around Tylo than completing the actual Jool 5 mission.

i did not see anything that said you had to do it all in a single launch..

[dozerman]

6 minutes ago, Destructogaming said:

i did not see anything that said you had to do it all in a single launch..

It's been explicitly stated that you can dock things together in KSO and you are allowed one refusing mission *or* ISRU. 

[Superfluous J]

2 hours ago, Destructogaming said:

i should try this, even though i'm horrible at the game.

verify if this follows the rules.

asteroid bases are placed around jool and each moon prior to the mission

a 5-kerbal vessel is launched and sent on a direct jool encounter

the vessel encounters laythe's asteroid base and refuels, then lands and launches from there.

the same is repeated for all 5 moons, in the order it's supposed to.

So long as the ship that collects the asteroids leaves Kerbin with the mother ship, sure. But it seems easier to just get fuel from Pol or Bop

[septemberWaves]

It doesn't have to be a single launch from Kerbin, and at no point did I say that. "Any number of launches are allowed to assemble the ship in Kerbin orbit". What it does have to be is a single total spacecraft (regardless of whether it's assembled in orbit of Kerbin) that leaves Kerbin's SOI and travels to Jool. "There's funding for one main ship only so all the crew, lander(s) and other stuff has to go to Jool as one big ship.  The ship can separate once in Jool's SOI." Meaning no splitting off a few asteroid collection units from the mothership at any point between Kerbin and Jool either.

Though you are allowed one refueling mission or ISRU, you may not have both. Hence even if you are allowed to send an entirely separate vehicle to go and collect some asteroids and bring them to the Jool system, that would have to be only one vehicle for every single asteroid you want, and even then you still wouldn't be allowed to mine those asteroids hence the separate vehicle to collect them would be useless.

Essentially, unless you collect a few asteroids with the same single vehicle that you sent from Kerbin to go to the Jool system, your idea of "asteroid bases are placed around jool and each moon" for purposes of ISRU would be against the rules. And you definitely couldn't do it "prior to the mission" because that would mean that you're using pre-placed craft to help the mission and thus it's not a single vehicle any more.

Edited November 25, 2017 by eloquentJane

[PhoenixRise86]

My shakedown cruises went... moderately? Getting to Jool in a single launch vehicle went fine, and I was able to play "moon pinball" into the orbits I wanted very cheaply, but the first Tylo lander was inadequate, and the 2nd attempt I ran much lower on fuel than I thought and doubt I'll be able to hit all 5 moons (Tylo worked alright this time, Bop/Pol won't be a problem, but I won't have enough to refuel the Laythe/Vall lander from the carrier between missions).

[sdj64]

@McBalsam Congratulations, you have completed the Jool 5 Challenge on level 3!  I'm impressed by the splitting SSTO design, I've seen them done before but not for a Jool 5.  And your landers are small and efficient too.  I liked the simultaneous approach with all of the landers splitting and gravity-assisting to their respective moons, it was quite the unique maneuver.  And a very well-edited video.  All of this coming from someone with only 3 posts!

Be careful with the clipping though (on the mothership "bridge" section).  This was really close to being disqualified but I don't think any drag tricks were abused, and your landers fit into the cargo bay without clipping.

 

On 11/25/2017 at 2:52 PM, Destructogaming said:

asteroid bases are placed around jool and each moon prior to the mission

As the other commenters said, this is not allowed.  You can visit an asteroid base once, if the ISRU is only on the asteroid base and not on the ship.  That will count as your refueling mission.

Another clarification: you may only meet with the refueling mission once.  For example, you can't leave a full fuel tank in orbit of each moon either, even if they were all dropped by the same ship.

 

On 11/25/2017 at 6:24 PM, PhoenixRise86 said:

My shakedown cruises went... moderately? Getting to Jool in a single launch vehicle went fine, and I was able to play "moon pinball" into the orbits I wanted very cheaply, but the first Tylo lander was inadequate, and the 2nd attempt I ran much lower on fuel than I thought and doubt I'll be able to hit all 5 moons (Tylo worked alright this time, Bop/Pol won't be a problem, but I won't have enough to refuel the Laythe/Vall lander from the carrier between missions).

Sounds like you're learning a lot!  While we're talking about rule 6, this would actually be the perfect opportunity to use your refueling mission.  It's exactly what the rule was intended for in the first place - rescuing a ship that doesn't quite have enough.