[1.12.x] Hide Empty Tech Tree Nodes (for modded tech trees) v1.3.2

[Stone Blue]

4 hours ago, Sabizos said:

anyways if anyone can see anything wrong with my setup id appreciate it if you could let me know, thank you for you time.

I agree with what eV0 said... 1st thing to try would be update ModuleManager to v4.1.3. (v4.0.3 is for KSP 1.7.3) ...When you do, delete the 4 MM files that show right below the MM .dll

Also, next thing, is, what exactly is in the /! inactivemods/ folder?
I ask, because during KSP loading, ANYTHING and EVERYTHING in /GameData/ will try to be loaded. Its best to move anything you dont want KSP to try to load completely out of your main /<KSP_install>/ folder... ie I would just move that inactive mods completely out of your install... no telling what in there could be currently be giving you problems, or at the least, eating up RAM & VRAM (textures, especially)....

Edited December 31, 2019 by Stone Blue

[Beetlecat]

5 hours ago, jpkerman said:

Another approach could be if there was a way to add a money or reputation reward to the empty nodes then the play balance against gaining higher tier tech too quickly and making tech trees more adaptable to individual play styles could be achieved.  A transition from hiding empty nodes to making empty nodes useful.  Variant tech trees would adapt to whatever mod mix is applied and the science points used to unlock the part-less node  could be rewarded in money and reputation in the form of "Research Advances", "New research theory" or "New Engineering design concepts".  If a mod is later added that fills that node then the "Make empty node useful" effect is not applied.

This sounds like something portions of Kerbal Construction Time might be able to achieve as far as making "empty" tech tree nodes appropriate to keep in-play. Unlocking nodes provides upgrade bonuses that can be used to speed up research (unlocking nodes themselves takes time) as well as the other craft building and facility upgrades time-taking features. You can disable /adjust things that you don't want to use, but that immediate functionality is certainly there.

Otherwise, forcing empty nodes to be achieved as a way of making later tech that much more expensive still makes sense. Science comes pretty easy

[Probus]

22 hours ago, ev0 said:

On 12/31/2019 at 9:56 AM, jpkerman said:

Another approach could be if there was a way to add a money or reputation reward to the empty nodes then the play balance against gaining higher tier tech too quickly and making tech trees more adaptable to individual play styles could be achieved.  A transition from hiding empty nodes to making empty nodes useful.  Variant tech trees would adapt to whatever mod mix is applied and the science points used to unlock the part-less node  could be rewarded in money and reputation in the form of "Research Advances", "New research theory" or "New Engineering design concepts".  If a mod is later added that fills that node then the "Make empty node useful" effect is not applied.

Hmmm I think unlocking money or reputation points is out of the scope of this mod. I wouldn't know the appropriate amount to give when you unlock the node. I also wouldn't know how to get it to work, code-wise, since I don't have experience with the money and reputation parts of the game.

A while ago I added an option to transfer science points from hidden nodes to unhidden nodes, if you are worried about unlocking nodes too quickly.

You could also take advantage of the vanilla game's Part Upgrades feature to make existing parts get better specs when you unlock a node. I think Interstellar Extended uses Part Upgrades, if you want to make your own and are looking for an example. I don't know how it works though. It might just need an MM script.

From one who has designed tech trees, hiding empty tech tree nodes is a great idea.  For the ETT tree I did, though , it would screw up the balance I was going for.  To make things worse, I put some nodes at just over 100 to make them harder to get early on.  So, like someone said, adding the cost to the next node would have fixed the balance problem, but may mess up the point in which the R&D facility would need to be upgraded.

EDIT: And what @Beetlecat said.

Edited January 1, 2020 by Probus

[Neevenzz]

This is probably a pretty straight-forward question/answer, but I'm just having a bit of trouble understanding what the "Transfer Science" option does. I'm sure it's clear as day, but it's escaping me right now. Fairly new to the game, & I'm starting my first actual full career playthrough today after about 450 hours of getting completely used to the game & mod set I'll be using, but this one option just isn't registering in my brain right now. I'm basically looking for the most difficult settings possible. Could've tested it myself I guess, but I figure now is as good a time as any to join these wonderful forums instead of just browsing them! Thanks in advance, & thank you for your work in this crazy awesome mod community!

Edited January 27, 2020 by Neevenzz

[linuxgurugamer]

On 1/1/2020 at 2:59 PM, Probus said:

From one who has designed tech trees, hiding empty tech tree nodes is a great idea.  For the ETT tree I did, though , it would screw up the balance I was going for.  To make things worse, I put some nodes at just over 100 to make them harder to get early on.  So, like someone said, adding the cost to the next node would have fixed the balance problem, but may mess up the point in which the R&D facility would need to be upgraded.

EDIT: And what @Beetlecat said.

Can you please make sure your netkan file for ETT lists the mod which hides the empty nodes as a conflict?

[ev0]

@Neevenzz Sure. I don't think I explained it in the OP.

"Science Wall" distributes all science points from a hidden node to the next unhidden node immediately after it in the same tech line. Like hitting a wall. If the tech line forks to multiple nodes, the points are divided evenly between them.

"Propagate Science" distributes all science points from a hidden node evenly to ALL nodes further down the same tech line.

"Default" simply removes the science points from the tech tree along with the hidden node. It will not modify the value of science points of other nodes.

I can add a picture to the album in the OP later to help explain it.

For added difficulty, I'd use "Science Wall" or "Propagate Science" since they will add science points from hidden nodes to unhidden nodes.

2 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Can you please make sure your netkan file for ETT lists the mod which hides the empty nodes as a conflict?

Did you mean to post this to the ETT thread? Or did you just switch the two mod names in that sentence?

Is there a mod conflict? HETTN (this mod) gives the option in the settings menu to add science points from hidden nodes to unhidden nodes. I leave it up to the user if they want to enable the setting or not.

[linuxgurugamer]

9 minutes ago, ev0 said:

2 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Can you please make sure your netkan file for ETT lists the mod which hides the empty nodes as a conflict?

Did you mean to post this to the ETT thread? Or did you just switch the two mod names in that sentence?

Is there a mod conflict? HETTN (this mod) gives the option in the settings menu to add science points from hidden nodes to unhidden nodes. I leave it up to the user if they want to enable the setting or not.

My mistake, posted to the wrong thread.

According to @Probus, hiding empty nodes will mess up the progression of ETT

[ev0]

2 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

My mistake, posted to the wrong thread.

According to @Probus, hiding empty nodes will mess up the progression of ETT

Yeah, I remember him saying so. I wouldn't go so far as to make ckan not like when both mods are installed, though.

Maybe @Probus could recommend his users to use this mod's option to transfer science points if they are using ETT. The option is there, but I don't want to force a user to do anything they might not want.

[Probus]

3 hours ago, ev0 said:

Yeah, I remember him saying so. I wouldn't go so far as to make ckan not like when both mods are installed, though.

Maybe @Probus could recommend his users to use this mod's option to transfer science points if they are using ETT. The option is there, but I don't want to force a user to do anything they might not want.

Sounds like a good idea.  I will discuss the options in the OP.

[Neevenzz]

@ev0 Yup, went ahead with Propagate Science. I was more unclear on what distributing the points actually meant, but it made sense as soon as I started the game. Having never played with hidden nodes before, it just wasn't registering with me at first. All good now! Significantly more fun & strategic! Thanks again!

[linuxgurugamer]

@ev0

I love this, but can't use it.  I had it working in a new game, and had to remove it to figure out a mod problem.  The game was using the Tetrix Tech Tree.

When I reinstalled it, it seemed to ignore the Tetrix configs

[ev0]

23 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

@ev0

I love this, but can't use it.  I had it working in a new game, and had to remove it to figure out a mod problem.  The game was using the Tetrix Tech Tree.

When I reinstalled it, it seemed to ignore the Tetrix configs

I'll investigate. Seems like someone else opens a similar issue on the Git. I also need to get back to you on the other issue you opened up. I've been a bit busy IRL but I think I can get to it today or surely next week during my staycation 

[etmoonshade]

Has anyone encountered problems with a heavily modded game, CTT, and this mod while attempting to use the "Propagate Science" option?

I encountered a pretty hard hang on attempting to make a new game (>10 minutes,) and after extensive log diving, correctly guessed that this option was to blame. The CTT can get pretty twisty up at the top after 1500 science, around all the nodes that KSPI-E uses - I'm wondering if it's encountering a ton of possibilities to distribute the science from hidden nodes, and just taking a really long time trying to figure it out.

It hung after these lines in player.log:

[HETTN] Reading RDNodes from GameData\ModuleManager.TechTree...
 
(Filename: C:\buildslave\unity\build\Runtime/Export/Debug/Debug.bindings.h Line: 35)

[HETTN] Not hiding 8 unique PARTUPGRADE only nodes.
 
(Filename: C:\buildslave\unity\build\Runtime/Export/Debug/Debug.bindings.h Line: 35)

Turning off the science propagation allows me to start a new game in a far more reasonable amount of time.

I can post logs later on if this isn't enough to track down the issue. I spent 2 hours troubleshooting this though, and I want to play now.

(If I have a reason to go out for a few hours, I'll also fire up a new game with the option and see if it eventually starts up.)

[ev0]

4 hours ago, etmoonshade said:

Has anyone encountered problems with a heavily modded game, CTT, and this mod while attempting to use the "Propagate Science" option?

I encountered a pretty hard hang on attempting to make a new game (>10 minutes,) and after extensive log diving, correctly guessed that this option was to blame. The CTT can get pretty twisty up at the top after 1500 science, around all the nodes that KSPI-E uses - I'm wondering if it's encountering a ton of possibilities to distribute the science from hidden nodes, and just taking a really long time trying to figure it out.

It hung after these lines in player.log:

[HETTN] Reading RDNodes from GameData\ModuleManager.TechTree...
 
(Filename: C:\buildslave\unity\build\Runtime/Export/Debug/Debug.bindings.h Line: 35)

[HETTN] Not hiding 8 unique PARTUPGRADE only nodes.
 
(Filename: C:\buildslave\unity\build\Runtime/Export/Debug/Debug.bindings.h Line: 35)

Turning off the science propagation allows me to start a new game in a far more reasonable amount of time.

I can post logs later on if this isn't enough to track down the issue. I spent 2 hours troubleshooting this though, and I want to play now.

(If I have a reason to go out for a few hours, I'll also fire up a new game with the option and see if it eventually starts up.)

I looked at the code for this plugin and I use a while loop in that section, so it's possible that it's entering an infinite loop somehow. That's not good! Do you have a list of the mods you have installed so I can try to replicate the problem? Also if you post logs, can you first turn on this mod's own debug logging option in the settings tab for Hide Empty Tech Tree Nodes?

Edit: Or instead of a list of all your mods, just the TechTree file that should be located in "GameData\HideEmptyTechTreeNodes\Resources"?

Edited July 25, 2020 by ev0
easier help suggestion

[etmoonshade]

40 minutes ago, ev0 said:

I looked at the code for this plugin and I use a while loop in that section, so it's possible that it's entering an infinite loop somehow. That's not good! Do you have a list of the mods you have installed so I can try to replicate the problem? Also if you post logs, can you first turn on this mod's own debug logging option in the settings tab for Hide Empty Tech Tree Nodes?

lol list of mods

"all of them"

 

Seriously though, yeah, I can get debug logs eventually, maybe while I'm making dinner. I've probably got 100 mods or so in my list though (including one personal one that adds a few procedural parts, flags, etc.) so it probably won't be easy to replicate. With that said, if you've got a test install ready to go, I suspect that KSPI-E will trigger it (if it's related to too many nodes to distribute science to) since it's got its hooks everywhere in the tech tree, especially that aforementioned dense top part.

Reply edit: @ev0 - I mean, if I post logs you'll get a mod list at the top anyway (if I remember correctly, at least.) I was just joking that replicating with my exact mod set would take probably 6 hours of picking and choosing and downloading, along with me sending you my random personal tweaks mod. 

 

Edited July 25, 2020 by etmoonshade

[etmoonshade]

@ev0 - alright, here's a zipped set of logs:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mmho8rd9buim8xu/HETTN 20200725.zip?dl=0

The "snip" logs are just the HETTN debug messages. The full logs are actually from a first load (without debug logging,) a few hours of playing, and then an attempt to start a new game using the propagate setting. Let me know if you need an entirely clean set of logs and I can get those later - I was just fiddling with a config so I figured I'd let it hang while I edited it.

[ev0]

1 hour ago, etmoonshade said:

@ev0 - alright, here's a zipped set of logs:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mmho8rd9buim8xu/HETTN 20200725.zip?dl=0

The "snip" logs are just the HETTN debug messages. The full logs are actually from a first load (without debug logging,) a few hours of playing, and then an attempt to start a new game using the propagate setting. Let me know if you need an entirely clean set of logs and I can get those later - I was just fiddling with a config so I figured I'd let it hang while I edited it.

Thanks, I'll take a look. Although, I've said that before and have gotten distracted by IRL stuff. Just a word of warning. 

Also, I don't know why I asked for your HETTN.TechTree file in my previous edit, since the code is getting stuck and can't generate one!

[etmoonshade]

25 minutes ago, ev0 said:

Thanks, I'll take a look. Although, I've said that before and have gotten distracted by IRL stuff. Just a word of warning. 

Also, I don't know why I asked for your HETTN.TechTree file in my previous edit, since the code is getting stuck and can't generate one!

Good thing I didn't include it then. That was TOTALLY INTENTIONAL. I couldn't possibly have forgotten that you'd asked for it... :V

And it's all good - I found a workaround (if "it hurts when I do this!" "so don't do that!" is a workaround,) so it's more the courtesy of providing a decent bug report at this point.

Now that I think of it, the missing nodes would add such a tiny amount to the later techs relative to their full cost that it'd be barely noticeable anyway (good old 20k cost nodes for the really good stuff in KSPI-E...)

[PocketBrotector]

Here's a minor bug: Gigantic Rocketry is hidden correctly since it has no parts associated with it, but it still generates a line from its would-be position to Exotic Nuclear Propulsion.

Spoiler

Here's the HETTN.TechTree file. I can provide a list of mods as well, or let me know of any other logs needed here.

Edit: Here's a log

Edited November 14, 2020 by PocketBrotector
add log

[Mr. Ship Crasher]

Compatible with 1.10?

[frozenbinary]

So I'm not sure if is this an actual problem but I've been having problems with Community Tech Tree, Hide Empty Tech Tree Nodes and Kerbalism.

So, as you may know, some Kerbalism stuff is unlocked from some CTT nodes.  However, some of these nodes don't have any parts that are locked behind these researches.  
https://imgur.com/a/bsnzLpM
This leads to situations like this where there are Kerbalism things to unlock, but no actual parts.  Hide Empty Tech Nodes doesn't see that and removes the node anyway, locking you out from unlocking pretty important things like CO2 scrubbers.

I also posted this on Kerbalism's thread

[ev0]

@etmoonshade @PocketBrotector @Mr. Ship Crasher @frozenbinary

Sorry, I haven't really played since even before 1.7 so I'm behind in the backlog of bugs I do want to fix them though. I'll try to make time away from IRL stuff to work on updating this mod. It'll be really nice to get back into KSP and play again anyway!

@PocketBrotector Your issue might have something do do with this post that was a reply to a post you made in the CTT thread. Do you know what came of that? I can see if I can put in an easy workaround.

@frozenbinary I'll keep an eye out for replies to your post in Kerbalism. I know I had a similar issue when stock "PartUpgrades" became a thing. I had to make sure I didn't hide nodes either with parts OR with the PartUpgrades flag. Maybe Kerbalism has a new flag I need to watch out for?

[PocketBrotector]

7 minutes ago, ev0 said:

Your issue might have something do do with this post that was a reply to a post you made in the CTT thread. Do you know what came of that? I can see if I can put in an easy workaround.

I'm not sure whether or how the issues might be related, but the fixes submitted are here and here. And the catch-all fix that I created for my personal use is here, which seems to have quashed the cost-related issue I was experiencing (but I'm still getting the visible line from the hidden node.)

[ev0]

15 minutes ago, PocketBrotector said:

I'm not sure whether or how the issues might be related, but the fixes submitted are here and here. And the catch-all fix that I created for my personal use is here, which seems to have quashed the cost-related issue I was experiencing (but I'm still getting the visible line from the hidden node.)

Great, I'll be able to look at the problem with the visible line. Might have something to do with deprecated parts with TechHidden=true still counting for whatever reason. Thanks for the update!

[PocketBrotector]

18 minutes ago, ev0 said:

Great, I'll be able to look at the problem with the visible line. Might have something to do with deprecated parts with TechHidden=true still counting for whatever reason. Thanks for the update!

In that case the culprit would likely be the deprecated engines from Near Future Launch Vehicles, in my case.