[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.14.0 "металл" 30/Sep/2024)

[SpaceFace545]

Earlier someone posted a picture of what Saturn V could have looked like if the J2 wasn’t made, I’ve tried looking back but can’t find it. Does someone have a copy?

[GoldForest]

8 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

I know what you're talking about but not sure where to find it. Please hold.

It was like a Saturn V, but the first and second stage were welded together so it was just one long S-1C. No SRBs or LRBs either. If that helps.

[Beccab]

2 minutes ago, GoldForest said:

It was like a Saturn V, but the first and second stage were welded together so it was just one long S-1C. No SRBs or LRBs either. If that helps.

Is that not the S-ID?

[CobaltWolf]

12 minutes ago, MajorLeaugeRocketScience said:

Try the RAC-2 study from ~2005, I’m pretty sure that came out of Marshall

Yes, that's the one I was thinking of. Just found it, page 19:

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/20120013881

Edited November 4, 2021 by CobaltWolf

[GoldForest]

4 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Yes, that's the one I was thinking of. Just found it, page 19:

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/20120013881

Yes! That's it! Thank you!

[CobaltWolf]

14 minutes ago, SpaceFace545 said:

Earlier someone posted a picture of what Saturn V could have looked like if the J2 wasn’t made, I’ve tried looking back but can’t find it. Does someone have a copy?

This one?

[GoldForest]

10 minutes ago, Beccab said:

Is that not the S-ID?

No, the S-1D ditches the 2nd and third stage and was not a shuttle replacement. The 1st stage stayed the same length give or take. It also didn't use the F-1B. 

3 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

This one?

"F-1-V."

So... M-1? Also, I don't know if that is cursed or not.

[DaveyJ576]

4 minutes ago, GoldForest said:

No, the S-1D ditches the 2nd and third stage and was not a shuttle replacement. The 1st stage stayed the same length give or take. It also didn't use the F-1B. 

"F-1-V."

So... M-1? Also, I don't know if that is cursed or not.

F-1V I believe to mean F-1 Vacuum with an optimized nozzle. Akin to Raptor Vac or Merlin Vac. 

[GoldForest]

2 minutes ago, DaveyJ576 said:

F-1V I believe to mean F-1 Vacuum with an optimized nozzle. Akin to Raptor Vac or Merlin Vac. 

I know. I was joking.

[derega16]

F1-V should be nice if early Nova (weird cluster tank one) parts is eventually made 

[CobaltWolf]

7 minutes ago, derega16 said:

F1-V should be nice if early Nova (weird cluster tank one) parts is eventually made 

F-1V would be cool in general. I'd have to make sure it somehow could be used in S-1D

EDIT: Since I'm looking at the AJ-260s right now, it occurs to me that it might be useful for like... air-lit Saturn 1C, with a solid 0-stage.

Edited November 4, 2021 by CobaltWolf

[Machinique]

Trying out some Apollo Applications concepts. I launched an INT-21 to land a LM-Shelter (using SSPRx for now) and and a cargo LM to deliver a Molab tractor (will assemble the trailer in situ on the first crewed landing) at the south pole. 

[AmateurAstronaut1969]

On 11/3/2021 at 8:08 AM, Zorg said:

It was in fact considered SOFI originally (as an homage to shuttle in the 80s or something). It was one of the more notable technical errors in the timeline though and has since been retconned to be Atlas alike anodized aluminium. 

Yeah, and that’s why the old renders show SOFI

[Pappystein]

2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

F-1V would be cool in general. I'd have to make sure it somehow could be used in S-1D

EDIT: Since I'm looking at the AJ-260s right now, it occurs to me that it might be useful for like... air-lit Saturn 1C, with a solid 0-stage.

I would think the number quoted for ISP there is high... or the bell is much bigger than they are showing.    Could do a "extension" bell that is small enough and brings you to ~300 second range I would think

Do love the Airlit S-IC stage idea though     Real world you run into problems with Airlit as the AJ260 has a LF-O fuel tank on top of it to be long enough to reach the S-IC-S-II interstage structure (where it's forces are applied)  

Of course if you are talking to a Saturn 1B or ETS Saturn 1E probably not an issue (freely admit I didn't go that direction when I wrote the above.)

 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Pappystein

[Naeth Kerman]

I've been thinking...

it would be a part that is just a normal Kane RCS, but instead of straight roll thrusters, they could be at a 45* angle. That way they could be used on landers, like the LM Shelter/Truck or things like that.

To use it with the Decent stage it could have the option to have a bare-bones mount that would fit on the sides of the stage.

Spoiler

Here are some pictures I found while searching for some other stuff, just wondering if this will help.

https://imgur.com/a/xFzIema

 

[CobaltWolf]

3 minutes ago, Naeth Kerman said:

I've been thinking...

it would be a part that is just a normal Kane RCS, but instead of straight roll thrusters, they could be at a 45* angle. That way they could be used on landers, like the LM Shelter/Truck or things like that.

To use it with the Decent stage it could have the option to have a bare-bones mount that would fit on the sides of the stage.

  Reveal hidden contents

Here are some pictures I found while searching for some other stuff, just wondering if this will help.

https://imgur.com/a/xFzIema

 

There is going to be a dedicated LM Truck RCS, probably in the next dev cycle.

[GoldForest]

2 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

There is going to be a dedicated LM Truck RCS, probably in the next dev cycle.

Is anyone doing the lunar rover or no?

[zakkpaz]

10 minutes ago, GoldForest said:

Is anyone doing the lunar rover or no?

No, apparently wheels are a pain in the butt to make. but i do have a craft file you can use if you don’t mind rescaling the stock wheels

[Invaderchaos]

Some texture clean up on the Titan UA120 solid motors and a couple Titan things.

 

[pTrevTrevs]

Apollo 5:

Quote

 

Final Saturn I Flight:

Quote

While the first series of Surveyor probes provided valuable data on the lunar surface, researchers pushed for a heavier, more capable spacecraft to explore the surface between the final Surveyor landing and the first Apollo lunar missions. Thus the Surveyor program was granted one final mission in the form of Surveyor 6. In order to launch the heavier spacecraft, the Saturn-Centaur would be called upon one last time before yielding the heavy-lift role to the improved Saturn IB. The mission set off for Mare Imbrium in March of 1968.

Surveyor 6's mission profile was essentially identical to those of its five first-generation predecessors, but the spacecraft itself was completely redesigned. Instead of the solar panel mast, Surveyor 6 would be powered by a small radioisotope thermalelectric generator mounted beneath the high-gain antenna, allowing it to continue operations well into the lunar night and to survive on the surface much longer than previous missions. A redesigned propulsion system eliminated the need for a braking retrorocket, as the new single-nozzle liquid engine and toroidal fuel tank provided ample power for a direct-descent soft landing. A new suite of scientific instruments was installed on the probe, including a passive seismometer (the first of its kind on another world), a camera and sensor array mounted on a rotating mast, and a new high-definition color TV camera on a fixed mounting to allow the first color TV images of the lunar surface. All told, the spacecraft massed just over one metric ton, hence the need for Saturn I instead of the Atlas.

Surveyor 6's landing site was some kilometers north and east of the crater Copernicus, seen here to the left of the spacecraft. This allowed it access to the ejecta rays which extended from the crater into Mare Imbrium, as well as a significantly more northern landing site than any previously flown mission.

Descent and landing were performed without issue, and in the hours after touchdown the surface operations systems were activated one by one. Photography and video of the landing site showed a hilly, boulder-strewn landscape, and geologists supposed that the largest formations seen in the pictures were indeed ejecta from Copernicus. The seismometer detected significantly less activity than hoped for, confirming suspicions that the Moon was indeed geologically dead. In summary, the mission proved a fitting end to the successful robotic exploration of the Moon, and NASA is now all the more confident in its ability to place men on its surface in a year's time.

 

[derega16]

About AJ-260 I think I saw some design that's replace S-1C with 3 AJ-260

[pTrevTrevs]

Got tired of waiting for a white SM to put on Apollo 6, ended up flying the mission anyway.

Spoiler

Also accidentally ended up doing a stress test of the heatshield. Good news is that most of the spacecraft can survive more G-forces than Kerbals themselves can. Bad news is the Block I nosecone can't.

On a related note, I was surprised to see that the capsule actually did create a sort of lifting body that altered the angle of descent. It may just have been because of the abnormally harsh reentry, but I swear right before I hit the altitude to blow the drogue chutes, the spacecraft naturally pulled up until its rate of descent was almost zero. I didn't even know base KSP was able to model that kind of aerodynamics...

 

[GoldForest]

1 hour ago, derega16 said:

About AJ-260 I think I saw some design that's replace S-1C with 3 AJ-260

So they're basically making the Saturn Multi-body but with solids? Interesting. 

1 hour ago, pTrevTrevs said:

Got tired of waiting for a white SM to put on Apollo 6, ended up flying the mission anyway.

  Hide contents

Also accidentally ended up doing a stress test of the heatshield. Good news is that most of the spacecraft can survive more G-forces than Kerbals themselves can. Bad news is the Block I nosecone can't.

On a related note, I was surprised to see that the capsule actually did create a sort of lifting body that altered the angle of descent. It may just have been because of the abnormally harsh reentry, but I swear right before I hit the altitude to blow the drogue chutes, the spacecraft naturally pulled up until its rate of descent was almost zero. I didn't even know base KSP was able to model that kind of aerodynamics...

 

Oh yeah, that's why the Offset COM exists iirc. Stock KSP does lifting body capsules rather well IMO, I use it when I'm slightly off on my trajectory. 

[Starhelperdude]

7 hours ago, Invaderchaos said:

Some texture clean up on the Titan UA120 solid motors and a couple Titan things.

 

lol I also thought of that

[Pappystein]

18 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

This one?

Looked at this drawing multiple times since it was posted.    Realized those are double UA-120x SRM attachments....      Mmm imagine what you could do with double the SRM on your Titan...   Your Saturn....  Your huddled  bundled masses

On to the reality of this drawing and why it is so wrong.  

1) 3.5m SRM?   Try 3.05m

2) ATK SRM?   Try Chemical System Division of United Aircraft

3) 315ISP with 4x LR101s and a Vaccum Rated F-1?    Try closer to 300

4) The F-1V again... the combustion chamber is drawn bigger than the standard F-1 (it looks like the smallest of the M-1 drawings in my opinion)  

5) SIV-B stage as they call it.   6 RL10-A3s are not enough power to get a LOR lander and Apollo capsule into final orbit / inject for Moon.   Probably better to go with:

LR87-LH2s!     It is not A J-2 engine and it was ALREADY DEVELOPED!   Oh and it WON the Hydrolox engine competition with 11 of 12 goals met (J-2 only met 9 of the 12 goals IIRC)

All that being said, interesting, if flawed concept.   While I don't see a Kerolox S-II stage being a benefit, I do see the Vacuum F-1V (and F-1AV?) being a small but worthy investment for things like S-ID

Then again, I also see the need for engine mounts for the LR87-LH2 (dual bell Sea Level and single bell Vac on multi engine mounts) on Saturn    

 

 

6 hours ago, pTrevTrevs said:

Got tired of waiting for a white SM to put on Apollo 6, ended up flying the mission anyway.

  Reveal hidden contents

Also accidentally ended up doing a stress test of the heatshield. Good news is that most of the spacecraft can survive more G-forces than Kerbals themselves can. Bad news is the Block I nosecone can't.

On a related note, I was surprised to see that the capsule actually did create a sort of lifting body that altered the angle of descent. It may just have been because of the abnormally harsh reentry, but I swear right before I hit the altitude to blow the drogue chutes, the spacecraft naturally pulled up until its rate of descent was almost zero. I didn't even know base KSP was able to model that kind of aerodynamics...

 

Nice flight.   100% Joking but White CM comes tomorrow