[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.14.0 "металл" 30/Sep/2024)

[GoldForest]

25 minutes ago, Rodger said:

This is why there's been a lot of "update bulkhead profile" github pushes over the last few weeks lol

So, the mod separates parts via size, function and fuel type then displays then in the list as such? That's bad-a!

[GoldForest]

Titan in the style of SRB-X A3. Did two launches, one empty, one with a fully fueled Titan IV 2nd stage tank. 

Full album: Imgur: The magic of the Internet

[GoldForest]

Appears.

Drop teaser.

Refuses to elaborate.

Leaves. 

Edited July 30 by GoldForest

[TomVorat]

39 minutes ago, GoldForest said:

Appears.

Drop teaser.

Refuses to elaborate.

Leaves. 

I don't know how to feel about this

[GoldForest]

7 minutes ago, TomVorat said:

I don't know how to feel about this

You don't like drop tank Saturn-I-IDK? 

[Blufor878]

1 hour ago, GoldForest said:

Appears.

Drop teaser.

Refuses to elaborate.

Leaves. 

Alright, who spiked my tea?

[GoldForest]

46 minutes ago, Blufor878 said:

Alright, who spiked my tea?

Do not adjust your monitor. What you are seeing is correct.

[biohazard15]

11 hours ago, Rodger said:

Something I'd like some feedback on from anyone - what search terms do you tend to use?

Do you use rocket family names (real or kerbal)? If a related upper stage has a different name, would you still want it showing up? (showing centaurs when searching atlas? sergeants when searching juno?)

Specific part names (RL20, AJ260)

Sizes in ingame-meters (1.5, 1875 or 1.875?) or perhaps general descriptors (small tiny big)? Bulkhead profile?? (size0p5, size2, 3p2, these generally aren't actually tags so shouldn't work lol)

Fuel types? (monoprop, cryo, liquid, solid? shortened versions like 'lho' or 'lfo'?)

Functionality descriptors? (solar, structural, adapter, antenna, airlock, interstage, motor, engine) What about if this is not the primary function of the part, like an interstage that includes separation motors, should that show up with 'motor'? or would you use interstage and motor together to narrow your search down?

Functionality synonyms? (panel, communication, control, booster, split, remote, radial)

Do you combine multiple search terms? (saturn interstage, or number designations like mariner 2, vs mariner2 or just mariner)

Do you finish typing the search terms, or just type the first part?

A long term project is going to be updating the tags, as having so many does add lag to the search system, and they basically all need certain match-condition symbols added to them to help make the search more reliable. I presume family name is the most popular kind of search, and functionality searches the least common. However I could see functionality be useful if combined with a main search term too, so maybe people use it like that?

The aim is to remove tags if possible, but obviously ones that actually get use will stay. The only ones I'm really looking at removing are most functionality synonyms, and size general descriptors.

 

TYpically I use real name for rocket families if I need the launcher part (Atlas, Titan etc), upper stage real name if I need that upper stage part (Centaur, Star etc), spaceship\probe real name if I need that part... you get the idea. I tend not to use search for generic terms, since it usually gives me too many results (the joy of running most of the main part mods, LOL. Also lag.) - it would be faster to simply find what I need by browsing the category tab.

Sometimes I may search for a specific part by its exact name, but that doesn't happen often.

And oh yes, the lag is real. I tend to quickly type what I need, and hope for the best.

[Friznit]

I mostly use search for specific sized fairing - SAF 1.25 for example.  Otherwise by rocket name if the Category tab isn't quite 100% right.

[DeadJohn]

13 hours ago, Rodger said:

Something I'd like some feedback on from anyone - what search terms do you tend to use?

• I usually type the real rocket/satellite/etc. name. If that gives too many things I'll use multiple terms.
  • Most of my KSP time is in career mode. During early career finding parts is easy because so few things are unlocked. Late career or sandbox mode is when things get ugly, trying to track down that one "Saturn" part in a sea of hundreds of parts.
  • BDB differentiates capsules and lifters with different names, so if I'm having trouble finding a "Saturn" part I'll use BDB's names "Kane" or "Sarnus".
  • Science experiment names also get a lot of use. I'm unaware of any mod that allows clicking an experiment name to see all parts that offer it, but typing part of the experiment name often works. So I'll type "gravi" or "magnet" into the search box.
  • Rockets with multiple variants in different diameters can be a pain. Saturn of course with all its different parts, but also to a less extent with things like "Atlas" with 1.875m parts and conceptual parts at 2.5m.
• The advanced filtering buttons also get a lot of use. If I'm trying to decide which engine is best for a new rocket I click the engine button then a 2nd filter button by fuel type. I think filter extensions and related mods provide that functionality.

 

 

[space-wizards]

13 hours ago, Rodger said:

Something I'd like some feedback on from anyone - what search terms do you tend to use?

Do you use rocket family names (real or kerbal)? If a related upper stage has a different name, would you still want it showing up? (showing centaurs when searching atlas? sergeants when searching juno?)

Specific part names (RL20, AJ260)

Sizes in ingame-meters (1.5, 1875 or 1.875?) or perhaps general descriptors (small tiny big)? Bulkhead profile?? (size0p5, size2, 3p2, these generally aren't actually tags so shouldn't work lol)

Fuel types? (monoprop, cryo, liquid, solid? shortened versions like 'lho' or 'lfo'?)

Functionality descriptors? (solar, structural, adapter, antenna, airlock, interstage, motor, engine) What about if this is not the primary function of the part, like an interstage that includes separation motors, should that show up with 'motor'? or would you use interstage and motor together to narrow your search down?

Functionality synonyms? (panel, communication, control, booster, split, remote, radial)

Do you combine multiple search terms? (saturn interstage, or number designations like mariner 2, vs mariner2 or just mariner)

Do you finish typing the search terms, or just type the first part?

A long term project is going to be updating the tags, as having so many does add lag to the search system, and they basically all need certain match-condition symbols added to them to help make the search more reliable. I presume family name is the most popular kind of search, and functionality searches the least common. However I could see functionality be useful if combined with a main search term too, so maybe people use it like that?

The aim is to remove tags if possible, but obviously ones that actually get use will stay. The only ones I'm really looking at removing are most functionality synonyms, and size general descriptors.

 

When not using CCK, I do tend to use real names (with the real name patch installed) and don't really care if a named upper stage does not appear. Sometimes for kitbashing I try to look up parts by size, but usually I just go into the menu that sorts parts by size. The only time I search by fuel type is searching for engines using cryogenic fuels (e.g. "liquid hydrogen" or just "hydrogen." I also do search via "cryo" as a search term) I have never searched by function I do use combine search terms when building probes, even with CCK, mostly due to a need to filter down what's on my screen. These are normally searched in the format of "Probe X" where Probe is the name of the probe (Mariner, Pioneer, etc) and X is the number (e.g.. Mariner 2). this normally requires me to type out the full name but due to how the search function lags the game, there is no difference in load time compared to partial terms.

[hellothere___]

i have a question. i noticed the lunar module descent stage has a j class variant, but how do i make a rover to put inside of it? is it an inventory item like the munar flying vehicle?

[marxman28]

17 hours ago, Rodger said:

Something I'd like some feedback on from anyone - what search terms do you tend to use?

Do you use rocket family names (real or kerbal)? If a related upper stage has a different name, would you still want it showing up? (showing centaurs when searching atlas? sergeants when searching juno?)

Specific part names (RL20, AJ260)

Sizes in ingame-meters (1.5, 1875 or 1.875?) or perhaps general descriptors (small tiny big)? Bulkhead profile?? (size0p5, size2, 3p2, these generally aren't actually tags so shouldn't work lol)

Fuel types? (monoprop, cryo, liquid, solid? shortened versions like 'lho' or 'lfo'?)

Functionality descriptors? (solar, structural, adapter, antenna, airlock, interstage, motor, engine) What about if this is not the primary function of the part, like an interstage that includes separation motors, should that show up with 'motor'? or would you use interstage and motor together to narrow your search down?

Functionality synonyms? (panel, communication, control, booster, split, remote, radial)

Do you combine multiple search terms? (saturn interstage, or number designations like mariner 2, vs mariner2 or just mariner)

Do you finish typing the search terms, or just type the first part?

A long term project is going to be updating the tags, as having so many does add lag to the search system, and they basically all need certain match-condition symbols added to them to help make the search more reliable. I presume family name is the most popular kind of search, and functionality searches the least common. However I could see functionality be useful if combined with a main search term too, so maybe people use it like that?

The aim is to remove tags if possible, but obviously ones that actually get use will stay. The only ones I'm really looking at removing are most functionality synonyms, and size general descriptors.

I usually use kerbal rocket names since I'm usually looking for a specific thing. I have an Apollo D-2 mod installed along with BDB, so if I enter "Apollo" in the search bar, I get both BDB's Kane parts and that D-2 mod, and I might want to use the BDB Apollo and not the D-2 mod. Same thing also applies within BDB—"Bossart" and "Muo" are two very different things, and if I want an Atlas V launch vehicle, I use "Muo" as my search entry so I don't have to sift through the Bossart parts if I used "Atlas" instead. That's a bit of a problem, however, as both BDB and KNES have different spacecraft called "Hermes." The BDB Hermes is the Mercury capsule and the KNES Hermes is the conceptual European spaceplane. As for upper stages, I prefer them to be separate, i.e. a search for Titan/Prometheus or Atlas/Bossart parts doesn't give me Centaur/Inon results.

I don't go searching for specific parts with very few exceptions.

My size searches are usually in bulkheads, e.g. size 2 or size 1. That's what Tantares does, but other mods use meter designations, so I'll use those if I want those parts. For BDB's 1.5-meter parts, I have to specify 1.5 meters because 1.5 otherwise gets me Tantares's 1.875-meter parts.

If I want a specific fuel type, I'll use that in my searches, which means that the stock LFO is my default. However, if I'm playing with liquid hydrogen, I'm usually fine with using "cryogenic" as my search term. I'll search "cryogenic engine" to specifically get cryogenic engines.

I use functionality descriptors frequently as I want things that specifically are those. This is mainly targeted towards airlocks, but I guess you could also include solid rockets in that category.

For synonyms, however, I don't use those a lot as those categories are generally streamlined enough to fit what I need—I'm not going to search up "radial decoupler" when I know the specific one I like using.

I don't combine search terms since I'm fine with looking for the parts that fall underneath the rocket family, mainly because x part should go into y location for me. Per your example, I'm not going to specifically look for a Saturn interstage—I'll enter "Sarnus" into the search bar and figure things out from there.

Usually my search terms are succinct enough that I don't need long ones.

[Adam-Kerman]

2 hours ago, hellothere___ said:

i have a question. i noticed the lunar module descent stage has a j class variant, but how do i make a rover to put inside of it? is it an inventory item like the munar flying vehicle?

It's a separate craft to make and fold into the bay that'll hold the LRV in the LM Bay

https://github.com/friznit/Unofficial-BDB-Wiki/wiki/Rovers

Edited July 30 by Adam-Kerman

[Pappystein]

17 hours ago, Rodger said:

This is why there's been a lot of "update bulkhead profile" github pushes over the last few weeks lol

This would reduce my search functionality by quite a bit   

[GoldForest]

So yeah... the teaser from the other day... I was expecting it to crash and burn or at least not reach the Mun.... but... well... 

It's a huge album, so check it out. 

And for those wondering:

1st stage: 2x 4 segment Shuttle SRBs.

2nd stage: 2x 6.6m extended Saturn S-IE Drop tanks fueling 3rd stage.

3rd stage: Saturn LRB-40K with 4x RS-68K Regens in super compact mode (Engines start at liftoff of course, still consider it stage 3.)

4th Stage: 6m stretched S-IVB with 4x RL-10B-2

CSM: "Modern" Apollo with Blk IV Mission Module using Blk V solar panels

Munar Lander: Lockheed Martain HLV. 

Full album: Imgur: The magic of the Internet

Also, @Pappystein found a stage you missed with your hypergolic patch. TAID 210 Delta. 

Edited July 31 by GoldForest

[Rodger]

  Thanks for the feedback everyone, it's been very useful!

12 hours ago, marxman28 said:

My size searches are usually in bulkheads, e.g. size 2 or size 1. That's what Tantares does, but other mods use meter designations, so I'll use those if I want those parts. For BDB's 1.5-meter parts, I have to specify 1.5 meters because 1.5 otherwise gets me Tantares's 1.875-meter parts.

I could include the "ksp size" by requiring a prefix, like "s1.5" could match 1.875 vs "1.5"/"1.5m". Saturn 4.25m is also technically size 3.4 which is maybe a little obscure, but it'd be in addition to the meter size.

17 hours ago, DeadJohn said:

Science experiment names also get a lot of use. I'm unaware of any mod that allows clicking an experiment name to see all parts that offer it, but typing part of the experiment name often works. So I'll type "gravi" or "magnet" into the search box.

Yeah this would be a nice feature to have as a mod, my usual workaround is using [x] Science!, setting it to show experiments available on current craft in the VAB, and it will show if the part I added also adds a new experiment definition. But it's also a good point for the tags, something I'll keep in mind.

On 7/30/2024 at 3:38 PM, bigyihsuan said:

I'd be nice to see Centaurs with Atlases etc when searched, even better if it shows up in the CCK tab.

I think I could set it up so adding the suffix 'centaur' would include it in the search, so for eg typing "atlas-centaur" or "titancentaur" would show atlas and centaur or titan and centaur at once, without showing it if only searching atlas or only titan. I think it would require no spaces in the search though (so not "atlas centaur"), as then it'd be two different search terms that both need to match, requiring a bunch more tags (I'd rather be reducing tag count), which in turn likely makes it harder to search for lower stages when you don't want the upper stage. So I feel like it's probably a bit too messy to include common upper stages with launcher searches, though more specialized ones would still probably be grouped together, eg delta p/k or dcss.

Stage based tags should be doable for stuff like saturn though.

 

@GoldForestI see someone's already taken advantage of the new super compact RS68s, though I wasn't expecting them stuffed into the saturn engine mount lol

[GoldForest]

6 minutes ago, Rodger said:

@GoldForestI see someone's already taken advantage of the new super compact RS68s, though I wasn't expecting them stuffed into the saturn engine mount lol

You give me the world's most powerful hydrogen powered engine in a form factor of the shuttle engine, and you'll get crazy stuff like this. This is KSP. You should have expected it lol. 

Any plans to add the shuttle or an SDLV neck ring or whatever it's called as a "shroud"?

Edited July 31 by GoldForest

[Rodger]

For context, there's a new optional patch for the RS68, with two variants with the guts of the engine just fully hidden, for tight spaces:

The insulated version works great with some of the NFLV engine mounts:

And it is compatible with Roger Wang's Konstellation Ares V in that you won't get duplicate subtypes if it's installed (it does a very similar thing with a compact insulated variant)

[GoldForest]

15 minutes ago, Rodger said:

For context, there's a new optional patch for the RS68, with two variants with the guts of the engine just fully hidden, for tight spaces:

The insulated version works great with some of the NFLV engine mounts:

And it is compatible with Roger Wang's Konstellation Ares V in that you won't get duplicate subtypes if it's installed (it does a very similar thing with a compact insulated variant)

Well, that answers my question lol. Thanks. Is the node in the neck on the SDLV Version or still at the mounting points?

Edit: Nevermind, didn't realize I already had the patch installed lol.

Edited July 31 by GoldForest

[Rodger]

I think the insulated version's node is unchanged from regular, so it works on the ares v mount, and will likely need adjustment in other cases. The super compact node is moved a bit, but also likely will need adjustment in most cases.

[Pappystein]

8 hours ago, GoldForest said:

Also, @Pappystein found a stage you missed with your hypergolic patch. TAID 210 Delta. 

The Hypergolic update has been in a state of constant updates as Rodger alters more and more parts.   Have you updated it recently?

 

The only part tagged as TAID is the engine, all engines work.  Are you talking about a specific fuel tank? 

[GoldForest]

37 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

The Hypergolic update has been in a state of constant updates as Rodger alters more and more parts.   Have you updated it recently?

 

The only part tagged as TAID is the engine, all engines work.  Are you talking about a specific fuel tank? 

Yeah, the TAID tank. The stretched Ablestar aka Delta E/F

[Pappystein]

3 hours ago, GoldForest said:

Yeah, the TAID tank. The stretched Ablestar aka Delta E/F

Interesting.   I am checking Github to see why it is no longer listed or if the Delta_E Tank is new...
 

***EDITED*** found the issue, It was never in the public patch.  I did have some updates to the patch for my personal use (now deleted) and I am willing to bet that is why I never noticed it wasn't working

THANKS for the catch... sorry for my error!

 

But while I am doing that... Sekret time
 

Spoiler

 

Shhh!  Itz A Sekret!

I am neck deep in the "Sekret" update and it heavily involves the Hypergolic patch  @GoldForest   If you want to fix it on your own end before I post an update, easy solution is to open  BDB_HypergolicUpdate.cfg  And edit the delta tank section to look like this:

@PART[bluedog_DeltaK_Stage,bluedog_DeltaP_Stage,bluedog_DeltaE_Tank]:NEEDS[!SkyhawkScienceSystem]:First
{
	%bdbTankType = Hypergolic
}

But then again, Thanks to the power of Github I did create a PR to fix it (tomorrow at the earliest is my guess for the update.)

Edited July 31 by Pappystein

[OHN]

@Pappystein Do you have any plans of converting the Viking and Mariner propulsion parts to Hypergolics too? Both used MMH and NTO IRL.