The Elcano Challenge: Ground-Based Circumnavigation (Continued)

[Maverick_aus]

6 hours ago, The_Rocketeer said:

Man this is feeling like so much more of an expedition than the last one!

That's the way! You're satisfaction in achievement will be proportional to the effort you put in, not just the plain difficulty of the challenge. Looking good.  

Aerial survey - good idea. I decided to 'earn' the right to use the 'M' button map, the mouse wheel zoom out as well as detailed scansat maps only because I'd overflown with scout aircraft and orbitally scanned. Much better sense of achievement that way. 

[The_Rocketeer]

Experimentation with a Mk3 cargo-bay/ramp has shown that while my rover just fits inside the assembly, loading and unloading is difficult basically impossible because the wheels are slightly wider than the ramp. Also, I don't think the four TR-2Ls I'm using have the required guts to lug a trailer of such size and mass around. Casting around for alternatives, I find this:

Spoiler

Initial testing is promising, but I need to test more thoroughly and with larger fuel tanks - with the test-rig I would barely have enough fuel to make the first island hop, and I don't want any fuel-stops at all this time if I can help it. 

[ScriptKitt3h]

4 minutes ago, The_Rocketeer said:

Experimentation with a Mk3 cargo-bay/ramp has shown that while my rover just fits inside the assembly, loading and unloading is difficult basically impossible because the wheels are slightly wider than the ramp. Also, I don't think the four TR-2Ls I'm using have the required guts to lug a trailer of such size and mass around. Casting around for alternatives, I find this:

  Hide contents

Initial testing is promising, but I need to test more thoroughly and with larger fuel tanks - with the test-rig I would barely have enough fuel to make the first island hop, and I don't want any fuel-stops at all this time if I can help it. 

Why not pack the smallest drill and ISRU setup you can make into the rover, have it refuel itself? (I should have done that myself, but oh well, for the next Elcano attempt, on some other planet than Duna. :P)

[The_Rocketeer]

@ScriptKitt3h the short answer is I have an aversion to ISRU.

The long answer is more complicated. For me, part of the appeal of this is the immersion - my kerbs and their rover vs Kerbin. I don't want to fast-forward 2 years while an ISRU brims the tanks while my Kerbs are freezing their butts off on the ice-cap - I like to believe they have a reason to want to get home sooner than that, or that they can die of exposure, or come to that old-age. Aircraft-tankers are far preferable, except that the only way to transfer fuel between surface crafts effectively is to use the claw, which is again a bit of a turn-off because it's so glitchy and also because it's such a wonky piece of apparatus for the job. So I could use KIS/KAS (which would make life so much easier), but then it wouldn't be stock, and for some silly reason that's important to me too. So the remaining options are to go all-electric, or to bring enough fuel from the outset to not need to refuel.

Having written all that, I'm now rethinking my overall power strategy - up til now I've been leaning heavily on solar, but I'm beginning to think that fuel-cell or alternator power would make for a more interesting challenge. Perhaps I should air-drop supply checkpoints where the rover can refuel itself instead...

[ScriptKitt3h]

24 minutes ago, The_Rocketeer said:

@ScriptKitt3h the short answer is I have an aversion to ISRU.

The long answer is more complicated. For me, part of the appeal of this is the immersion - my kerbs and their rover vs Kerbin. I don't want to fast-forward 2 years while an ISRU brims the tanks while my Kerbs are freezing their butts off on the ice-cap - I like to believe they have a reason to want to get home sooner than that, or that they can die of exposure, or come to that old-age. Aircraft-tankers are far preferable, except that the only way to transfer fuel between surface crafts effectively is to use the claw, which is again a bit of a turn-off because it's so glitchy and also because it's such a wonky piece of apparatus for the job. So I could use KIS/KAS (which would make life so much easier), but then it wouldn't be stock, and for some silly reason that's important to me too. So the remaining options are to go all-electric, or to bring enough fuel from the outset to not need to refuel.

Having written all that, I'm now rethinking my overall power strategy - up til now I've been leaning heavily on solar, but I'm beginning to think that fuel-cell or alternator power would make for a more interesting challenge. Perhaps I should air-drop supply checkpoints where the rover can refuel itself instead...

Alternatively, RTGs are great for rovers that need long-distance power supplies.

[The_Rocketeer]

14 minutes ago, ScriptKitt3h said:

Alternatively, RTGs are great for rovers that need long-distance power supplies.

Lol that's like the opposite of what I was saying isn't it?

[ScriptKitt3h]

8 minutes ago, The_Rocketeer said:

Lol that's like the opposite of what I was saying isn't it?

I know, I kid, I kid. I'm more on the opposite end of the spectrum when it comes to ground vehicle design- if it's something that's stupidly easy to operate, looks great, and is durable (or at least quite tough in terms of how rugged it is), I'm happy. I can understand a desire for immersion though, and that's not a bad thing.

[Maverick_aus]

6 hours ago, The_Rocketeer said:

. Casting around for alternatives, I find this:

Reminds me of Hagen Von Tronje's vehicle. 

From his Mission Report here.

 

Edited July 30, 2016 by Maverick_aus

[Claw]

Wow! So much great stuff everyone. I feel like I'm so far behind the stories here.  

 

9 hours ago, The_Rocketeer said:

up til now I've been leaning heavily on solar, but I'm beginning to think that fuel-cell or alternator power

I can't recall for Kerbin, but of note, solar power is tentative when transiting the polar circle. (My little rover actually relies on them sometimes, despite having four RTGs.) The sun angles are so flat for a long time.

Fuel-cells are probably better than an alternator driven system. Part of why fuel cells were added was because people were already itching for something like an alternator, so the cells are definitely more efficient in terms of power-per-LFO. In some ways, I wish I would have given the fuel cell powered vehicle a try, though it would be a bit bigger than my usual Jeep.

 

9 hours ago, The_Rocketeer said:

For me, part of the appeal of this is the immersion - my kerbs and their rover vs Kerbin. I don't want to fast-forward 2 years while an ISRU...

Yes, for sure. I used the mini-ISRU once...for my second Laythe trip (because it seemed to fit with the design, was necessary, and I wanted to try it out). I was, sadly, very disappointed with it. I mean, I know it's going to take some time, but it was literally years of mining (after finding an area to support the miniDrill), to fill up the tanks.

 

22 hours ago, ScriptKitt3h said:

After a very long, and quite rough drive, the crew of the beat-up Dunecat HATR

This is awesome! I love the screen shots, seeing all the infrastructure along for the mission. Nice job!

 

 

[HazelPine]

Worked a bit more on my ship and its crane, and I'm felling pretty good about it so far! I think I'm gonna do a polar circumnavigation of sorts to take advantage of the flatness and go really fast, and hug the coast until I get to the poles. Still thinking about it.

 

Here's my progress update:

And a pic:

 

[The_Rocketeer]

@Pine I'd love to see your modlist and the stats on your ship, particularly fuel capacity and total/peak mass. I'm also intrigued how your crane works - presumably you're using KIS/KAS, perhaps IR?

[HazelPine]

@The_Rocketeer, one I get back to my pc I'll check the stats and get my mod list for you! 

the crane itself works using IR parts and a KAS winch, along with a plug on the thing that needs to be lifted. The crane swings out and picks up the cargo, and spins back up over the deck for delivery.

[The_Rocketeer]

*snip*
 
I had put a long post here about my current thoughts, but decided to give it it's own thread in the Mission Reports subforum (this thread has a lot of noise and not much signal at the moment ). Please direct any assistance there

 

Edited August 1, 2016 by The_Rocketeer

[Maverick_aus]

How were Jeb and Berthy are able to keep going on their Elcano challenge, after the Kraken ate their ship? Find out here...

 

[Martian Emigrant]

Just an update on Vallina and Nedbur's excellent adventure.

They have completed the crossing of the great desert. Had a good time in the ruins of the temple.

Usually Nedbur (Engineer) is the one that want to play. But it was Vallina (Scientist) who wanted to explore. As soon as he was done fixing one more wheel he wanted to leave.

Just as an aside: Having jet engines with Thrust Reversers on a car is a good add-on in mountainous areas.

Been working on a replacement for the Stork. My fuel drop plane. Too short ranged.

The Seven Leagues Stork as been tested and it can fly all the way around Kerbin....I think....Hope....We'll see when they reach the Western edge of the Western Continent and need fuel.

They are currently over a quarter of the globe away.

The Amphibious train is doing well. Lost a wheel and the side-guards. Will do a quick 180 over 50 m/s if the terrain or the driver makes too quick a turn.

Finally Imgur mixed the pictures. And I will post them as soon as I remember how.    I give up. Pretty sure there was an "i" button up there. Now there is a "Page" button in it's place.

http://imgur.com/a/oXCWQ#ApvAC9c

 

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2016 by Martian Emigrant

[damerell]

I arrived at the temple in darkness, of course, like everywhere else interesting. ;-)

[Martian Emigrant]

17 minutes ago, damerell said:

I arrived at the temple in darkness, of course, like everywhere else interesting. ;-)

The Vanea (Vallina And Nedbur Excellent Adventure) runs on solar some RTGs and jets. To run at night (Even when the sun is low) I would have to run the engines all the time and I don't have that luxury. Plus those little guys have to sleep sometime.

I made a video of the ship:

 

[MDZhB]

I think I'll attempt this one the Mun, but I have a very important question first. I didn't see anything in the rules against it, but would it "break the spirit of this challenge" if I were to use this?:

It's a giant wheel I designed specifically for Mun travel. Of course, it's totally land based, and I created it as an alternative to (currently buggy) rovers.

[damerell]

52 minutes ago, MDZhB said:

I think I'll attempt this one the Mun, but I have a very important question first. I didn't see anything in the rules against it, but would it "break the spirit of this challenge" if I were to use this?:

It's a giant wheel I designed specifically for Mun travel. Of course, it's totally land based, and I created it as an alternative to (currently buggy) rovers.

Provided it's not powered by magic, I can't see why there would be any objection. Oddball vehicles are half the fun.

[Chemp]

5 hours ago, MDZhB said:

I didn't see anything in the rules against it, but would it "break the spirit of this challenge" if I were to use this?:

A very solid idea indeed, that would be something new. Just don't forget to add a command pod somewhere so that your vehicle is kerballed (rule #2).

 

On a side note: A little teaser of my own personal agenda:

Spoiler

Edited August 4, 2016 by Chemp

[MDZhB]

8 hours ago, damerell said:

Provided it's not powered by magic, I can't see why there would be any objection. Oddball vehicles are half the fun.

It's 100% stock, 100% gyroscopic power (electricity). This looks like it will be much fun...

 

[Maverick_aus]

@Martian Emigrant Looks like your going well. I like your dual-fuselage amphibious train-tank vehicle. Also, the flag bread-crumb trail shows your progress well with a helpful high granularity.

@MDZhB Interesting concept for a vehicle. Is there a way to right it if it falls over? Also, I assume reaction wheel(s) motivates it? 

[MDZhB]

Just now, Maverick_aus said:

Interesting concept for a vehicle. Is there a way to right it if it falls over? Also, I assume reaction wheel(s) motivates it?

The SAS is more than powerful enough to right it, (or spin it up to 65m/s! ) It has two units, so it's not quite overkill, but it does the job nicely.

The only problems are stopping, but it's not like I need to do that very much, and going the right direction. It has a tendency to slide along hills, so you have to compensate by pointing at a direction to the right or left of your true direction. It's not a big problem, but it is somewhat annoying.

I'm about 40 km into this trip, so I have about 1,216 km left to go.

[Maverick_aus]

1 hour ago, MDZhB said:

The SAS is more than powerful enough to right it, (or spin it up to 65m/s! ) It has two units, so it's not quite overkill, but it does the job nicely.

Ah. Cool. That's fast on the Mun, is it not? How is it handling the jumps? 

1 hour ago, MDZhB said:

I'm about 40 km into this trip, so I have about 1,216 km left to go.

Well, Godspeed and I look forward to seeing how you go with your Wheel of Dizziness. 

[MDZhB]

12 minutes ago, Maverick_aus said:

Ah. Cool. That's fast on the Mun, is it not? How is it handling the jumps? 

It handles jumps beautifully. It's made of some pretty hard parts, 80m/s impact tolerance. So far I've only lost three of 16 panels (all in one jump, it was just a little bit too high), but it still drives perfectly.

I don't want to spam this thread though, should I go ahead and start a new one in mission reports?