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[Matuchkin]

I regret creating this topic. I was quite upset on something unrelated when I did this, and I felt disgruntled enough to write this. Forgive me, and please have someone lock this topic.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Matuchkin

[Stone Blue]

No popcorn, but I guess I just grabbed a front row center seat for this one...

Edited April 13, 2016 by Stone Blue

[Superfluous J]

I'll bite.

So what you're saying is that by giving you free stuff that's so good, these total strangers who owe you nothing (ignoring that a better argument could be made that YOU owe THEM), should be indebted to you to keep working on this free thing no matter what happens in their lives?

This may be the best title of a thread ever. Because that assertion takes quite an ego.

(I've been burned on this before, so I'm going to add here that the topic of the thread as I write this is "On the topic of ego")

[stibbons]

My strong feelings about the kerbalstuff shutdown aside, 

1 hour ago, Matuchkin said:

one is performing a service for the forum community, that he cannot take down or stop whenever he wants to

the hubris of this statement is pretty astounding.

[GDJ]

The mods are the sole work of their creator, therefore it is well within their rights to stop work on a mod if they don't feel like updating it or continuing to work on it. 

There are several mods that I used to have a long time ago (Tavario's, Bobcats, etc) that the owners just simply disappeared. As annoying as it is, you cannot make them sign a contract that states that once a mod is introduced, it has to be maintained in perpetuity by either the original owner or a new owner. What would the penalty of non-compliance be? They are providing a free service. 

Also you can't expect SQUAD to take over the mods. It's not their work. Why should they? They have enough on their plate as it is.

You can't ban them, you can't take away their birthdays, you can't fine them.

Simply put, live with it. It's the way it is with volunteer work.

Edited April 13, 2016 by GDJ

[Blaarkies]

@Matuchkin It takes a lot of ego to claim that:
"...he cannot take down or stop whenever he wants to, feels necessary, or is just angry at a certain aspect of the game."

I imagine bac9 or blowfish will read this and think..."well, i guess this is my life now" and just update mods for the rest of their lives. Dude no! it's fun, it's cool, KSP is really great but it is still just a game(yeah i said it). You don't know what happened in the lives of the modders that stopped updating their mods, maybe they stopped for a really serious reason.

But in case your post is not worded exactly as you meant, I do however agree on this point:
"it is always better to hand management to another forum user."

I bet a lot of the very old outdated part mods are still "in production" by hardcore fans of those mods, but because of license issues i doubt they may be shared...so, a final post in the mod page about the license being nullified would be cool so that someone else can pick up the torch if they want to.

[nightingale]

When you start paying a premium price for mods, then perhaps the modding community (or "big modding" as it will become known) will provide you a premium service.  And if you (not you personally, but a collective "you") are not willing to give me enough money to put food in my kids' mouths then I guess I'm going to have to just keep modding as a hobby that I do for myself, and not as a service that I provide for others.

[PolecatEZ]

Its why any responsible mod creator would put an open license on their work.  I certainly did, and am quite happy with the mods that continued every time I took a long vacation.  Someone mentioned bac9...which last I saw had an open license that I was more than happy to use as well to take his work in entirely new directions.  Its an awesome thing to log in a year later and find bits and pieces of your work still living in iterations of your own and other projects, picked up by fresh blood you've never heard of before.

The issue comes from some modders that are simply "my toys, I'm mad, I'm taking them and going home" when, because of the quality of their work, they had basically monopolized a particular concept for so long.  In many cases, it is a function of pure childish ego when a far better solution would be "I need a break, here's the open license, go nuts."  Absolutely nobody is saying that their freely given time and efforts forever chain them to continuing.  Many great mods can continue to live with simple tweaks for version updates, but their creators chose to embed a timed kill switch on their work via licensing, and that is a shame.

[Vanamonde]

As volunteers, the principle has always been that mod-makers update when and if they feel like it. They don't even need a good reason to quit. There is no means of compelling them to continue, even if anyone had the right to try. Losing access to a mod is a risk, though, and is one of the several reasons why I prefer to avoid using mods; I do not want to be frustrated by the loss of something I've come to rely upon, so I don't rely upon them in the first place. Others choose otherwise, but we all know, or should know, that it's 'use at your own risk' because the mod-makers have no obligation to continue their services. 

Now putting on my moderator hat for a moment: feelings tend to run high in threads of this sort. Please do not let that drive you to insults or other forums of bad forum behavior. 

[stupid_chris]

I really hate to be the one to say it but:

Attitudes like these are the reason I nearly abandoned RealChute two years ago, then nearly left it to die last year. If it hadn't been for this lack of interest spawned from bad attitudes around here, we'd have RealChute 2 since last June. The reason it's not out yet is that I have not had the motivation to write it.

Things get better when people start wondering what they might do better rather than point at what others are doing wrong.

[Superfluous J]

1 minute ago, stupid_chris said:

I really hate to be the one to say it but:

Attitudes like these are the reason I nearly abandoned RealChute two years ago, then nearly left it to die last year. If it hadn't been for this lack of interest spawned from bad attitudes around here, we'd have RealChute 2 since last June. The reason it's not out yet is that I have not had the motivation to write it.

Things get better when people start wondering what they might do better rather than point at what others are doing wrong.

Posts like this are why the "Like This" button should instead say "I agree".

[Streetwind]

And posts like the OP are why the "Like This" button should have a matching "Dislike This" button...

*calls on Sir Patrick Stewart to help dispense free facepalms to everyone in need*

[steve_v]

Agreed on the new button.

@Matuchkin: Eh what? You can't be serious.

Do you not like free crayons?

[Ixenzo]

Pay modders a monthly salary or contract them and only then you can have a voice in matters like that.

[RoverDude]

4 hours ago, PolecatEZ said:

Its why any responsible mod creator would put an open license on their work.  I certainly did, and am quite happy with the mods that continued every time I took a long vacation.  Someone mentioned bac9...which last I saw had an open license that I was more than happy to use as well to take his work in entirely new directions.  Its an awesome thing to log in a year later and find bits and pieces of your work still living in iterations of your own and other projects, picked up by fresh blood you've never heard of before.

The issue comes from some modders that are simply "my toys, I'm mad, I'm taking them and going home" when, because of the quality of their work, they had basically monopolized a particular concept for so long.  In many cases, it is a function of pure childish ego when a far better solution would be "I need a break, here's the open license, go nuts."  Absolutely nobody is saying that their freely given time and efforts forever chain them to continuing.  Many great mods can continue to live with simple tweaks for version updates, but their creators chose to embed a timed kill switch on their work via licensing, and that is a shame.

I agree (it's why I open license my stuff), but on the flip side, some elements of our community have not quite learned how to play well with others yet, and forget that just because you can does not mean you should - for example, the rash of cases where people forked win64 'unfixed' versions directly contrary to the wishes of the original (and still very active) author, resulting in a mess of support for them that they were specifically trying to avoid by locking out win64.  Folks were crying foul and saying that it was tough luck, they chose their licenses poorly (i.e. ones that allowed derivative works) thus encouraging closed licensing because folks could not be trusted to have a dialogue and respect the original author's wishes regarding how their work was used (and forcing the author to explicitly seal it up).

 

Or, to paraphrase the philosoraptor, 'Just because a tomato is a fruit does not mean you should put it in a fruit salad'.

9 minutes ago, Ixenzo said:

Pay modders a monthly salary or contract them and only then you can have a voice in matters like that.

And even then, no guarantees.  Folks are free to quit any time they want, or choose not to enter/renew a contract.  Sorry, you can't force people to work for you if they don't want to.

[AlphaAsh]

7 hours ago, Matuchkin said:

...one is performing a service for the forum community, that he cannot take down or stop whenever he wants to, feels necessary, or is just angry at a certain aspect of the game...

Yes, he can.

And with all due respect to Vanamonde, understood, however I would like to answer directly to the OP as follows: Don't use any of my mods. And welcome to my ignore list.

[Kerbart]

It takes two to argue. Authors abruptly stopping comes with a reason; if the mod is that important than “the community” should treat the author accordingly. Expecting that to happen (“the community? It's like herding cats!”) is just as reasonable as expecting people to continue volunteering something they despise. Or handing off their work to a community they’ve come to despise.

[Matuchkin]

I regret creating this topic. Something extremely disgruntling happened the day before, and I was in a horrible mood. I'll control myself next time.

@Red Iron Crown, please lock this rant.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Matuchkin

[swjr-swis]

I will agree that it would be nice if mods were always given licenses that allowed maintenance after the original author stops, and/or forking to accommodate different points of view on the mod's usage or development.

That's as far as I go though. The thread title is pretty ironic, as pointed out, since it says more about those who feel the way the OP does than about mod authors, and that type of attitudes is exactly one of the factors why mod authors or hosts get burned out and stop. The OP is its own self-fulfilling prophecy.

I also notice, not very surprisingly, that the OP makes no mention of what is done to make the mod authors feel supported and appreciated enough to want to continue with their thankless work. Snarky complaints and no support - wouldn't we all be giving 110% of ourselves under those working conditions?

 

I too have lost a few mods to an author deciding to 'take their toys and leave', quite literally because they even took down the sources. It was a learning moment, so now:

• I learned to play without those mods, and after a bit of time, I was ok with that. KSP is quite fun without any mods at all as well, I discovered.
• I look carefully at the licenses of mods. I tend to skip the ones that place restrictions on maintenance or forking by others, or offer no sources at all. I accept that those things are at the authors' discretion, but it is also at my discretion to pick and choose for my own reasons which mods I will use.
• I diligently download sources of mods I like enough that I would consider doing some editing/recompiling myself to continue their usage - even if the licenses do not allow publishing, I can still do it for my own personal use. I consider it my own responsibility to provide continuity to my game, not the author's.
• I try to avoid being a factor for mod authors to quit, and I try to be supportive of them in what ways I can. There's never guarantees, but all bits help.

 

[Red Iron Crown]

Closed at OP request.