What if we confirmed Aliens around KIC 8462852?

[Spaceception]

So there's obviously a thread for this, that talks about the star and a possible Dyson sphere, among some other things so here;

But I wanted to make a thread for the "What if?" part, What if KIC 8462852 was confirmed to have a Dyson sphere, or some Alien megastructure around it? What if we got a direct signal from them? What would be the social implications of it? Not the political and religious parts, since those break the forum rules. And I know this was partially discussed, and suggested in the thread above, but I wanted to make an independent thread for it, so we could talk about thoroughly, while the other thread talked about what it could be instead

 

And if the Mods want to merge them, that's totally fine with me

@Red Iron Crown @Val @Vanamonde @Frybert @Snark @Maximus97 What do you say? One of you guys has to be active right now.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Spaceception

[Findthepin1]

I'm surprised to be the first post here. Wow.

I think the more space-excited people would be really, really excited about it for a while, and the layman would be all like "Well, look at that!", and then everything goes back to normal as people realize it doesn't affect us in any major way, and we won't be able to communicate with these people for over a thousand years, and the aliens have no way of knowing humans are even a thing. Outside the space/scientific community, things would almost entirely go back to normal within weeks or months. We'd want to keep track of what they're doing, but there's no need to worry about them.

They aren't going to harm us, we know this because they are thousands of years more technologically advanced than us (they had begun building a Dyson Sphere in the 500s AD) and they undoubtedly know about Earth and its situation by now. They don't know about us, i.e. modern civilization, but they have probably observed Earth in giant telescopes and seen by the atmospheric composition that it must have life. They would then react similarly to how we would to us discovering them.

It is a monumental discovery that significantly affects either party for no more than a few weeks or months. If we discover them, we're seeing them as they were 1490 years ago. That doesn't help us or harm us. In 1490 years during which they probably knew there was life here, and seem to have made no efforts to colonize or whatnot, they probably want to leave us alone. And vice versa: if they discover us, they're seeing our planet as it was 1490 years ago. That doesn't help or harm them, either. If there's a planet that they know has life, and they also know that nothing from that planet has tried to 'invade' them, they probably think that we want to leave them alone.

TL;DR: One civilization, discovering the other, is going to be quite excited about it for the first few weeks, then (aside from the scientific community) basically moves on with life because the discovery isn't that important in their day-to-day lives.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Findthepin1

[Spaceception]

4 minutes ago, Findthepin1 said:

I'm surprised to be the first post here. Wow.

I think the more space-excited people would be really, really excited about it for a while, and the layman would be all like "Well, look at that!", and then everything goes back to normal as people realize it doesn't affect us in any way, and we won't be able to communicate with these people for over a thousand years. Outside the space/scientific community, things would almost entirely go back to normal within weeks or months. We'd want to keep track of what they're doing.

There's no need to worry about them. They aren't going to harm us, we know this because they are thousands of years more technologically advanced than us (they had begun building a Dyson Sphere in the 500s AD) and they undoubtedly know about Earth and its situation by now. They don't know about us, i.e. modern civilization, but they have probably observed Earth in giant telescopes and seen by the atmospheric composition that it must have life. They would then react similarly to how we would to us discovering them.

It is a monumental discovery that significantly affects either party for no more than a few weeks or months. If we discover them, we're seeing them as they were 1490 years ago. That doesn't help us or harm us. In 1490 years during which they probably knew there was life here, and seem to have made no efforts to colonize or whatnot, they probably want to leave us alone. And vice versa: if they discover us, they're seeing our planet as it was 1490 years ago. That doesn't help or harm them, either. If there's a planet that they know has life, and they also know that nothing from that planet has tried to 'invade' them, they probably think that we want to leave them alone.

TL;DR: One civilization, discovering the other, is going to be quite excited about it for the first few weeks, then (aside from the scientific community) basically moves on with life because the discovery isn't that important in their day-to-day lives.

I'd like to think that we build more space based telescopes to look for more Alien structures, and begin to seriously look for life inside of our solar system, but you're probably right, although, the layman might be somewhat interested for up to several months, if the scientific community keeps everything up to date.

 

Also, what if we receive a direct signal?

Edited May 2, 2016 by Spaceception

[Gaarst]

11 minutes ago, Spaceception said:

I'd like to think that we build more space based telescopes to look for more Alien structures, and begin to seriously look for life inside of our solar system, but you're probably right, although, the layman might be somewhat interested for up to several months, if the scientific community keeps everything up to date.

 

Also, what if we receive a direct signal?

We'll recieve it, answer, and wait for at least 1500 years for an answer depending if they have FTL communications or not. Or no answer if they are extinct, a lot of things can happen in 1500 years.

And there are chances that space program budgets might get a little push after the discovery, but for a few years only, as as @Findthepin1 said, there is nothing we can do on our side to create an encounter in reasonable amounts of time.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Gaarst

[Andem]

Well, as said above, the hubbub will die down within a few months. What I'd be interested in is how are society reacts in the future with the knowledge that a Dyson Swarm is a practical method of generating energy, and that we have competition in our interstellar colonization efforts.

[Matuchkin]

The star is currently assumed to be undergoing late heavy bombardment. You don't usually see life at that stage.

I'll sit here and wait until the bombardment stops.

[adagency]

option 1  -  It's a swarm of comets ... fantastic levels of comets but still natural.

option 2 -  It's a dyson sphere under construction over the past 100+ years ..  1500 light years away.   They have detected nothing from us in terms of radio waves or any modern technology.    Our radio signals from the early 1900's are still traveling there, and will take another 1400 years to get there.   IE:  they don't care about a "civilization" that is 2 inches past monkey's throwing rocks.

option 3 - They know we are here,  they realize the potential,  they are building a Dyson Sphere to power a Alcubierre drive .. they'll be here next week.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive

Edited May 2, 2016 by adagency
added content.

[DBowman]

If we confirmed one case of aliens then likely there are others, maybe closer - we'd almost certainly invest in looking harder.

[Stargate525]

I can guarantee we'd have at least one radio telescope array watching them 24/7, as astronomers quickly sell watching that star as a matter of national security.

[PB666]

1 minute ago, Stargate525 said:

I can guarantee we'd have at least one radio telescope array watching them 24/7, as astronomers quickly sell watching that star as a matter of national security.

I have the star on my ignore list and all that. I think if someones going to build a bypass through the solar sustem, im simply going to rely on the infinite improbabilty drive to save me. I have lots of towels handy. . . . . . . 

Oh, you wanted me to take this thread seriously . . . . . 

Really, aliens aren't going to mind us, we are in a fairly boring backwater of the galaxy. If i'm an alien species my biggest concern is finding the best stars to reach out to seed and move on, more or less have all the elements in relatively shallow gravity wells, a stable star, low end of the yellow spectrum, cause i want my colony to last, finally biggest troublemaker are supernova and 'ramblin stars'. Ah and don't forget what to do about the andromeda collision. 

[Stargate525]

1 hour ago, PB666 said:

I have the star on my ignore list and all that. I think if someones going to build a bypass through the solar sustem, im simply going to rely on the infinite improbabilty drive to save me. I have lots of towels handy. . . . . . . 

Oh, you wanted me to take this thread seriously . . . . .

I am taking it (somewhat) seriously. I've seen the kind of levels scientists will go to for grant money. If they can legitimately get a DEFENSE contract...?

[James Kerman]

Firstly I find it difficult to post here without breaking forum rules and I will edit or remove this post if asked.

I believe there will be profound changes to all aspects of Humanity if we discover intelligent life in the multiverse, be it friendly, hostile or indifferent.

I think that it will take an event like this to unite Humanity - space, science and its exploration has already shown that humans bond around these goals (I'm thinking of the worldwide response to Sputnik 1, Apollo 11 or the difference in faith of scientists working at the LHC as some examples).  Maybe if we begin to think of ourselves as a species instead of by nationalistic, religious or political affiliation the Earth would be a better place.

[Spaceception]

9 hours ago, PB666 said:

Ah and don't forget what to do about the andromeda collision. 

Go to the Triangulum galaxy to watch the show!

Edited May 3, 2016 by Spaceception

[Wjolcz]

I don't think the star has aliens building a dyson sphere, but if it does I hope the whole world unites and does the cool space stuff to reach the higher levels of civilization faster. Just in case.

[adagency]

This star isn't normal guys... there is SOMETHING there...  million theories.. and the only one that DOESN'T completely fail is a Dyson Sphere.      feel free to ignore it...  but that won't stop that star from blinking at 22% drops..   

[kerbiloid]

Quote

What if we confirmed Aliens around KIC 8462852?

Many astronomers will earn Ph.D.
Astronomical faculties will build a Wall against school pupils' zerg rush to protect the last remains of professional respectability.
Cinema, toys and souvenir vendors will go to sleep with "KIC 8462852" name on their lips.
Preachers will get a visible and ultimate evidence for their followers.
Every fastfood cafe will include a KIC8462852burger in their menu.

Several years later nobody cares. As no visible profit can be gained.

[gutza1]

Here's the thing:

How do we know that the civilization itself is building a Dyson Sphere (assuming that KIC 8462852 is having a Dyson Sphere being built around it, of course)? What if it's just some robot probes that are building the sphere in preparation for their masters to arrive later? In fact, in this science fiction story I'm writing, the KIC 8462852 sphere civilization died out, but their probes continued to build the sphere without them.

[rudi1291]

43 minutes ago, gutza1 said:

Here's the thing:

How do we know that the civilization itself is building a Dyson Sphere (assuming that KIC 8462852 is having a Dyson Sphere being built around it, of course)? What if it's just some robot probes that are building the sphere in preparation for their masters to arrive later? In fact, in this science fiction story I'm writing, the KIC 8462852 sphere civilization died out, but their probes continued to build the sphere without them.

Wouldn´t the probes itself qualify as civilization?

[Rdivine]

First thing we do when we make contact?

Order alien pizza.

[Darnok]

On 2.05.2016 at 2:43 AM, Spaceception said:

So there's obviously a thread for this, that talks about the star and a possible Dyson sphere, among some other things so here;

But I wanted to make a thread for the "What if?" part, What if KIC 8462852 was confirmed to have a Dyson sphere, or some Alien megastructure around it? What if we got a direct signal from them? What would be the social implications of it? Not the political and religious parts, since those break the forum rules. And I know this was partially discussed, and suggested in the thread above, but I wanted to make an independent thread for it, so we could talk about thoroughly, while the other thread talked about what it could be instead

 

And if the Mods want to merge them, that's totally fine with me

@Red Iron Crown @Val @Vanamonde @Frybert @Snark @Maximus97 What do you say? One of you guys has to be active right now.

First of all, science wouldn't matter, military would. Geopolitics of Earth would change, since now we have zero protection from orbital strikes, we also can't defend or attack any spot in solar system.

If aliens would be on level of Dyson spheres and be able to travel to our solar system, it would be like Columbus meets Indians, but with modern technology and we would play Indians role. Our civilizations (we have few on Earth) would end, Earth and those who would survive, first few years of conquest, would be slaves forced to build bases for aliens.

The good thing with all this would be that we as humans would have to change our way of thinking and turn around from artificial constructs like bureaucracy, democracy, banking, equality etc etc and back to things that do work and let civilization to grow.

 

[Spaceception]

7 minutes ago, Darnok said:

First of all, science wouldn't matter, military would. Geopolitics of Earth would change, since now we have zero protection from orbital strikes, we also can't defend or attack any spot in solar system.

If aliens would be on level of Dyson spheres and be able to travel to our solar system, it would be like Columbus meets Indians, but with modern technology and we would play Indians role. Our civilizations (we have few on Earth) would end, Earth and those who would survive, first few years of conquest, would be slaves forced to build bases for aliens.

The good thing with all this would be that we as humans would have to change our way of thinking and turn around from artificial constructs like bureaucracy, democracy, banking, equality etc etc and back to things that do work and let civilization to grow.

 

Why exactly does everyone think that Aliens are hostile, and our first contact will be bad!? Just because we're not nearly as advanced as them, doesn't mean they'll wipe us out, it just means out technology sucks.

[kerbiloid]

10 minutes ago, Darnok said:

first few years of conquest, would be slaves forced to build bases for aliens

Slaves, building a Dyson sphere with pickaxes and shovels...

[Darnok]

Just now, Spaceception said:

Why exactly does everyone think that Aliens are hostile, and our first contact will be bad!? Just because we're not nearly as advanced as them, doesn't mean they'll wipe us out, it just means out technology sucks.

Not hostile, they are probably living using natural laws, not like our western civilization artificial laws, where you have no property, you can't become king, everything is upside down etc etc.

Why do you think any alien civilization would be friendly, if they would have larger military force than we do? If planetary civilizations can be friendly then why we have nukes? Why people that were living on same planet can't be friendly?
It is super simple, one country agrees to live under laws that its citizens accepts, while other country disagrees with those laws. That is why we need armies to protect our law-system and our independence and same rule works on civilization level.

Those natural laws where used in Europe during conquest of entire world... and look how many colonies Europe had back then. Of course those laws are bad for less advanced civilizations, like history shows, but hey evolution works on civilization level as well.
During both Americas conquest European goal wasn't total destruction and death of every American (called Indian today), but conquest of lands and take control over resources and work force.

I imagine same way of thinking works on level of solar-system-civilization that wants to expand and conquest new lands/planets, resources and slave-work-force.

 

[Spaceception]

2 minutes ago, Darnok said:

Why do you think any alien civilization would be friendly, if they would have larger military force than we do? If planetary civilizations can be friendly then why we have nukes? Why people that were living on same planet can't be friendly?
It is super simple, one country agrees to live under laws that its citizens accepts, while other country disagrees with those laws. That is why we need armies to protect our law-system and our independence and same rule works on civilization level.

I didn't say that, and I know there would likely be that one military civilization, I just don't think that we'll have a bad first contact.

[kerbiloid]

They would be peaceful and constructive. As a 80 tonnes bulldozer building a school or hospital over an ant heap.

Edited May 4, 2016 by kerbiloid