[Minimum KSP version - 1.12] Kerbal Inventory System (KIS) v1.29

[Tonka Crash]

2 hours ago, Apollo13 said:

The Breaking Ground DLC is about to be released.  It includes an inventory system in the stock game.  I wonder how that may impact the need for KIS.  If KIS is no longer needed, can we still use KAS?

sidebar:  I cross-posted this to the KAS thread as well.

What has been shown for the stock inventory system is disappointing to me. It looks very limited and less generic than KIS. KIS uses volume and mass to determine how much inventory is used for each part. Some parts take more space than others and you can pack an inventory however you like. Stock KSP looks like it's based around cargo "slots" instead of physical dimensions. I could be wrong. Since the only compatible parts Squad have shown are all similar sizes the system could work just like KIS, but I doubt it. 

I'd guess the stock system has a new part attribute to indicate a part can be stuck in a cargo slot and the container indicates how many slots it has. KIS lets you put whatever you want in a container, provided it's big enough. I think Squad decided to make EVA more meaningful and decided a stock version the SEP mod was the way to go. But that meant implementing deployable instruments and they took the simplest approach possible. I expect KIS inventories to work just fine in parallel to it.  I don't see a need for the stock system at all with KIS, but I still see a need for KIS inventories with the stock system.

The other aspect of KIS is the ability to attach and remove parts from built craft. The new update has not shown any hint of this being a new stock feature. You can pull a scientific instrument from a cargo slot and drop it on the ground. Or, you can pick up an item to put in a cargo slot. No where is there an ability to bolt that instrument to the side of a ship.

[RealKerbal3x]

54 minutes ago, Tonka Crash said:

-snip-

I think it would be nice if KIS could adapt the stock inventory system to its needs, but if it can't then it still makes sense to assume the stock inventory slots as specialised cargo space and the KIS inventory as the Kerbal's pockets, so to speak.

[Tonka Crash]

Just now, RealKerbal3x said:

I think it would be nice if KIS could adapt the stock inventory system to its needs, but if it can't then it still makes sense to assume the stock inventory slots as specialised cargo space and the KIS inventory as the Kerbal's pockets, so to speak.

I'm not sure what you think KIS needs to adapt from the new system. It's trivial to use MM to add a KIS Inventory to the new stock cargo modules turning them into KIS containers. Then the new science parts could be stored in the new container using KIS avoiding the stock system entirely. The only potential problem is whether or not the new parts are small enough for the personal inventory so a Kerbal could stick one is their pocket. 

I don't see how the stock system could add anything useful to KIS. Really we need to get our hands on the release to see how it really works. Personally I'd like to completely hide the new system if KIS is installed which for me is every install.

Another wrinkle is what's on this Kerbal's rocket pack? It's not a parachute, they've had lots of picks of the new suits with the same old style chute. Is it related to the science instruments, or a backpack to represent the Kerbal's cargo slot? It looks too small for cargo. It's also possible it's just a pre-release dead end that won't be in the actual release.

[RealKerbal3x]

4 minutes ago, Tonka Crash said:

I'm not sure what you think KIS needs to adapt from the new system. It's trivial to use MM to add a KIS Inventory to the new stock cargo modules turning them into KIS containers. Then the new science parts could be stored in the new container using KIS avoiding the stock system entirely. The only potential problem is whether or not the new parts are small enough for the personal inventory so a Kerbal could stick one is their pocket. 

 I don't see how the stock system could add anything useful to KIS. Really we need to get our hands on the release to see how it really works. Personally I'd like to completely hide the new system if KIS is installed which for me is every install.

I was just wondering if KIS using some modified form of the stock system would work, but I'm perfectly fine if the stock system and KIS can coexist.

Edited May 24, 2019 by RealKerbal3x

[Acid_Burn9]

Any thoughts on how will this interact with stock inventory from new DLC?

Edited May 25, 2019 by Acid_Burn9

[Tonka Crash]

8 minutes ago, Acid_Burn9 said:

Any thoughts on how will this interact with stock inventory from new DLC?

Without changes? Not at all. They are two separate systems, one we've never seen before and one added by a mod.

 

From yesterday:

 

[Gordon Dry]

After 6 months hiatus:

As many mod devs decided to always release backports for at least two earlier versions I'm a little disappointed that the last 3 versions of KIS only support KSP 1.7

(Using KSP 1.6.1 because RO/RSS).

[Tonka Crash]

15 minutes ago, Gordon Dry said:

After 6 months hiatus:

As many mod devs decided to always release backports for at least two earlier versions I'm a little disappointed that the last 3 versions of KIS only support KSP 1.7

(Using KSP 1.6.1 because RO/RSS).

Have you tried it? I don't know why the latest KIS wouldn't work in KSP 1.6.1. It compiles against 1.6.1 (just checked) without code changes, so I would expect the current release to run just fine on 1.6.1 no matter what sort of warnings you get from KSP-AVC. 

[Gordon Dry]

Okay, then it would be helpful to put the according values in the .version file - as information for the lurking user. 

[Daniel Prates]

In any case, KIS and the new stock inventory system won't affect each other, right? Will we still be able to use KIS as the preferential inventory system?

[Tonka Crash]

52 minutes ago, Daniel Prates said:

In any case, KIS and the new stock inventory system won't affect each other, right? Will we still be able to use KIS as the preferential inventory system?

No one knows for sure until the update comes out, but I don't expect them to affect each other and I plan to keep using KIS.

[Brigadier]

2 hours ago, Daniel Prates said:

In any case, KIS and the new stock inventory system won't affect each other, right? Will we still be able to use KIS as the preferential inventory system?

I've seen Rocketology on Twitch and he been be allowed to play with the DLC ahead of the release.  He says (no warranty implied here ) that they are separate and compatible.

[PolecatEZ]

My load screen is getting hard-locked.  Relevant part of the log below:

Spoiler

[LOG 13:54:13.833] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-125/sspx-inflatable-hab-125-1-iva/sspx-inflatable-hab-125-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:13.845] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-125/sspx-inflatable-hab-125-2-iva/sspx-inflatable-hab-125-2-iva'
[LOG 13:54:13.851] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-125/sspx-inflatable-hab-125-3-iva/sspx-inflatable-hab-125-3-iva'
[LOG 13:54:13.857] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-125/sspx-utility-125-1-iva/sspx-utility-125-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:13.862] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-25/sspx-airlock-25-1-iva/sspx-airlock-25-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:13.866] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-25/sspx-core-25-1-iva/sspx-core-25-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:13.890] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-25/sspx-greenhouse-25-1-iva/sspx-greenhouse-25-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:13.914] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-25/sspx-habitation-25-1-iva/sspx-habitation-25-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:13.926] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-25/sspx-inflatable-centrifuge-25-1-iva/sspx-inflatable-centrifuge-25-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:13.951] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-25/sspx-inflatable-hab-25-1-iva/sspx-inflatable-hab-25-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:13.992] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-25/sspx-inflatable-hab-25-2-iva/sspx-inflatable-hab-25-2-iva'
[LOG 13:54:14.013] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-25/sspx-observation-25-1-iva/sspx-observation-25-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:14.024] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-375/sspx-aquaculture-375-1-iva/sspx-aquaculture-375-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:14.034] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-375/sspx-core-375-1-iva/sspx-core-375-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:14.059] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-375/sspx-cupola-375-1-iva/sspx-cupola-375-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:14.083] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-375/sspx-expandable-centrifuge-375-1-iva/sspx-expandable-centrifuge-375-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:14.129] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-375/sspx-expandable-centrifuge-375-2-iva/sspx-expandable-centrifuge-375-2-iva'
[LOG 13:54:14.167] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-375/sspx-greenhouse-375-1-iva/sspx-greenhouse-375-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:14.177] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-375/sspx-habitation-375-1-iva/sspx-habitation-375-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:14.200] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-375/sspx-habitation-375-2-iva/sspx-habitation-375-2-iva'
[LOG 13:54:14.212] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-375/sspx-habitation-375-3-iva/sspx-habitation-375-3-iva'
[LOG 13:54:14.219] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-375/sspx-lab-375-1-iva/sspx-lab-375-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:14.231] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'UmbraSpaceIndustries/LifeSupport/Spaces/ViewingCupola_Internal/ViewingCupolaInternal'
[LOG 13:54:14.233] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/Spaces/Salamander_IVA/SalamanderInternal'
[LOG 13:54:14.253] Loaded config for KIS.ModuleKISInventory on part [Part:maleEVA(Clone) (id=C4294726888)]
[LOG 13:54:14.253] Loaded config for KIS.ModuleKISPickup on part [Part:maleEVA(Clone) (id=C4294726888)]
[LOG 13:54:14.254] Loaded config for KIS.ModuleKISInventory on part [Part:kerbalEVA_RD_Exp(Clone) (id=C4294722812)]
[LOG 13:54:14.255] Loaded config for KIS.ModuleKISPickup on part [Part:kerbalEVA_RD_Exp(Clone) (id=C4294722812)]
[LOG 13:54:14.255] Loaded config for KIS.ModuleKISInventory on part [Part:femaleEVA(Clone) (id=C4294725076)]
[LOG 13:54:14.256] Loaded config for KIS.ModuleKISPickup on part [Part:femaleEVA(Clone) (id=C4294725076)]
[LOG 13:54:14.256] Loaded config for KIS.ModuleKISInventory on part [Part:kerbalEVA_female_Exp(Clone) (id=C4294719518)]
[LOG 13:54:14.257] Loaded config for KIS.ModuleKISPickup on part [Part:kerbalEVA_female_Exp(Clone) (id=C4294719518)]
[LOG 13:54:14.257] Loading pod inventories...
 

After it hits that point, the game just locks up loading.  I'll take KIS out entirely and see what happens, though I think it will bork some saves.

 

Update:  Tried to disable certain parts of KIS with the config file and no dice.  Took out the entire KIS folder and game loaded just fine.

Edited May 30, 2019 by PolecatEZ
Update

[Daniel Prates]

9 minutes ago, PolecatEZ said:

My load screen is getting hard-locked.  Relevant part of the log below:

  Reveal hidden contents

[LOG 13:54:13.833] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-125/sspx-inflatable-hab-125-1-iva/sspx-inflatable-hab-125-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:13.845] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-125/sspx-inflatable-hab-125-2-iva/sspx-inflatable-hab-125-2-iva'
[LOG 13:54:13.851] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-125/sspx-inflatable-hab-125-3-iva/sspx-inflatable-hab-125-3-iva'
[LOG 13:54:13.857] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-125/sspx-utility-125-1-iva/sspx-utility-125-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:13.862] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-25/sspx-airlock-25-1-iva/sspx-airlock-25-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:13.866] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-25/sspx-core-25-1-iva/sspx-core-25-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:13.890] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-25/sspx-greenhouse-25-1-iva/sspx-greenhouse-25-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:13.914] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-25/sspx-habitation-25-1-iva/sspx-habitation-25-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:13.926] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-25/sspx-inflatable-centrifuge-25-1-iva/sspx-inflatable-centrifuge-25-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:13.951] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-25/sspx-inflatable-hab-25-1-iva/sspx-inflatable-hab-25-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:13.992] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-25/sspx-inflatable-hab-25-2-iva/sspx-inflatable-hab-25-2-iva'
[LOG 13:54:14.013] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-25/sspx-observation-25-1-iva/sspx-observation-25-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:14.024] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-375/sspx-aquaculture-375-1-iva/sspx-aquaculture-375-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:14.034] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-375/sspx-core-375-1-iva/sspx-core-375-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:14.059] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-375/sspx-cupola-375-1-iva/sspx-cupola-375-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:14.083] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-375/sspx-expandable-centrifuge-375-1-iva/sspx-expandable-centrifuge-375-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:14.129] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-375/sspx-expandable-centrifuge-375-2-iva/sspx-expandable-centrifuge-375-2-iva'
[LOG 13:54:14.167] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-375/sspx-greenhouse-375-1-iva/sspx-greenhouse-375-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:14.177] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-375/sspx-habitation-375-1-iva/sspx-habitation-375-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:14.200] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-375/sspx-habitation-375-2-iva/sspx-habitation-375-2-iva'
[LOG 13:54:14.212] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-375/sspx-habitation-375-3-iva/sspx-habitation-375-3-iva'
[LOG 13:54:14.219] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'StationPartsExpansionRedux/Internals/station-375/sspx-lab-375-1-iva/sspx-lab-375-1-iva'
[LOG 13:54:14.231] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'UmbraSpaceIndustries/LifeSupport/Spaces/ViewingCupola_Internal/ViewingCupolaInternal'
[LOG 13:54:14.233] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/Spaces/Salamander_IVA/SalamanderInternal'
[LOG 13:54:14.253] Loaded config for KIS.ModuleKISInventory on part [Part:maleEVA(Clone) (id=C4294726888)]
[LOG 13:54:14.253] Loaded config for KIS.ModuleKISPickup on part [Part:maleEVA(Clone) (id=C4294726888)]
[LOG 13:54:14.254] Loaded config for KIS.ModuleKISInventory on part [Part:kerbalEVA_RD_Exp(Clone) (id=C4294722812)]
[LOG 13:54:14.255] Loaded config for KIS.ModuleKISPickup on part [Part:kerbalEVA_RD_Exp(Clone) (id=C4294722812)]
[LOG 13:54:14.255] Loaded config for KIS.ModuleKISInventory on part [Part:femaleEVA(Clone) (id=C4294725076)]
[LOG 13:54:14.256] Loaded config for KIS.ModuleKISPickup on part [Part:femaleEVA(Clone) (id=C4294725076)]
[LOG 13:54:14.256] Loaded config for KIS.ModuleKISInventory on part [Part:kerbalEVA_female_Exp(Clone) (id=C4294719518)]
[LOG 13:54:14.257] Loaded config for KIS.ModuleKISPickup on part [Part:kerbalEVA_female_Exp(Clone) (id=C4294719518)]
[LOG 13:54:14.257] Loading pod inventories...
 

After it hits that point, the game just locks up loading.  I'll take KIS out entirely and see what happens, though I think it will bork some saves.

Hmmmmm.... 

The DLC just came out, I am downloading it now. If it changed the game version (another damn 'point someting'), maybe it will take the community some time to update module manager etc.

[Tonka Crash]

@PolecatEZ I'm loading into the game just fine. Are your mods up to date? At the same point in the log I have a different format to the KIS messages and I just reinstalled all mods from CKAN. I'd really need to see your complete log for troubleshooting.

[LOG 14:00:48.879] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'UmbraSpaceIndustries/Malemute/Spaces/RoverTail_Internal/MalemuteTailInternal'
[LOG 14:00:48.881] PartLoader: Compiling Internal Space 'ZZZ_Personal_Patches/Parts/Greenhouse-375/Greenhouse-375Internal/Greenhouse-375Internal'
[LOG 14:00:48.895] Adding KIS modules to the parts...
[LOG 14:00:48.905] [Part:ELConstructionDrone.v2 (id=C4294758790)#Module:5] Dynamically create pod inventory at seat: 0
[LOG 14:00:48.906] [Part:ELWorkshop (id=C4294756200)#Module:5] Dynamically create pod inventory at seat: 0
[LOG 14:00:48.907] [Part:ELWorkshop (id=C4294756200)#Module:6] Dynamically create pod inventory at seat: 1
[LOG 14:00:48.908] [Part:ELWorkshop (id=C4294756200)#Module:7] Dynamically create pod inventory at seat: 2

@Daniel Prates Just like any update there's no reason to expect mods to break. Mods break when the API changes which doesn't happen often. None of the 120 or so mods I have failed to load. EDIT: (Except Kopernicus)

Edited May 30, 2019 by Tonka Crash

[Daniel Prates]

44 minutes ago, Tonka Crash said:

Just like any update there's no reason to expect mods to break

Clearly we are not using the same mods hehe.

But changing the subject. I have just downloaded the DLC and it seems that, other than the announced changes, the game remains pretty much the same. I was all worked up, expecting we would go to a drasticly different 1.8.

[IgorZ]

6 hours ago, Daniel Prates said:

In any case, KIS and the new stock inventory system won't affect each other, right? Will we still be able to use KIS as the preferential inventory system?

Please, check your KIS version. v1.6 had this issue, but it was fixed in v1.7.

[Tonka Crash]

15 minutes ago, Daniel Prates said:

Clearly we are not using the same mods hehe.

But changing the subject. I have just downloaded the DLC and it seems that, other than the announced changes, the game remains pretty much the same. I was all worked up, expecting we would go to a drasticly different 1.8.

1.7 was just over a month ago, so 1.8 still isn't due for at least July, probably later releasing this DLC. The value of the DLC really depends on the player. I like new stock science experiments and the surface features. Robotics will open up some new design ideas, but isn't that important to me. The inventory system is worthless with KIS available. 

I've played with the DLC a little bit and the small stock container isn't physically realistic. It's smaller than the volume it can hold. It's 203.5L and holds 3 experiments. The experiments are vary from a low of 75L to over 300L but most are around 110-125L The ones that are over 300L look like the they would actually pack into a smaller space than their reported volume.

For comparison the small KIS SC-62 KIS container holds 280L, so it can only fit a couple of the experiments at a time or the stock cargo container. I was able to put 3 experiments in the stock container and then stuff it into a KIS container. When I pulled it out the experiments were still in it. 

@IgorZ The only issue I see so far is KIS uses the 'j' key to remove helmets. The new system uses 'j' & 'l' to rotate the experiments as you place them. Since the helmet removal is a stock feature this key should be disabled in KIS.

[Daniel Prates]

TBH I bought it mostly for the new surface features, which look promising. And to support development, of course. Aa for the the new gizmos, I already imagined that they would not surpass their old and tested mod counterparts. 

[zer0Kerbal]

59 minutes ago, Tonka Crash said:

...

@IgorZ The only issue I see so far is KIS uses the 'j' key to remove helmets. The new system uses 'j' & 'l' to rotate the experiments as you place them. Since the helmet removal is a stock feature this key should be disabled in KIS.

Spoiler

@KISConfig:FINAL {
  @EvaInventory   {
     @helmetKey = \
  }
}

 

what would be a good key to assign to helmet then?

[Tonka Crash]

6 minutes ago, zer0Kerbal said:

  Hide contents

@KISConfig:FINAL {
  @EvaInventory   {
     @helmetKey = \
  }
}

 

what would be a good key to assign to helmet then?

It's in the PAW menu to remove helmets. KIS no longer has to do it.

[zer0Kerbal]

Just now, Tonka Crash said:

It's in the PAW menu to remove helmets. KIS no longer has to do it.

I'm addicted to shortcut keys. seriously. I fell off the mouse wagon before there were meeses.

[IgorZ]

7 hours ago, Tonka Crash said:

@IgorZ The only issue I see so far is KIS uses the 'j' key to remove helmets. The new system uses 'j' & 'l' to rotate the experiments as you place them. Since the helmet removal is a stock feature this key should be disabled in KIS.

Even though KIS now uses stock helmet functionality, it's a bit different. KIS hotkey (or button in inventory) removes helmet and neck ring in one hit. The stock logic assumes you need to remove helmet and ring separately. So, I think the functionality should stay, but the default binding needs to be changed.

[zer0Kerbal]

38 minutes ago, IgorZ said:

Even though KIS now uses stock helmet functionality, it's a bit different. KIS hotkey (or button in inventory) removes helmet and neck ring in one hit. The stock logic assumes you need to remove helmet and ring separately. So, I think the functionality should stay, but the default binding needs to be changed.

is there a way to assign say <ALT><J>?

[IgorZ]

6 minutes ago, zer0Kerbal said:

is there a way to assign say <ALT><J>?

Not as of now. But even if it was, it won't help much. Alas, the game doesn't follow any consistent model of handling hotkeys. So if you press ALT+J, then regardless to how KIS reacted on it, the stock game logic will handle ALT and J separately. It's teh reason why people have to search for the unused keys for their mods. I wish ALT+J and "just" J would be different hotkeys globally.

Edited May 31, 2019 by IgorZ