Kerbal Space Program 1.2.2 is live!

[klgraham1013]

5 hours ago, Floby said:

Any updates on the console (Xbox One, PS4) patches? @UomoCapra

Jokes!

[Floby]

1 minute ago, klgraham1013 said:

Jokes!

Indeed. 

[Azimech]

Do we really need to get philosophical about the fundamentals of democracy or do we think of a system that's easier to apply than the current and can be beneficial for both Squad and the community? Sarcasm doesn't help I'm afraid.

[Floby]

1 minute ago, Azimech said:

Do we really need to get philosophical about the fundamentals of democracy or do we think of a system that's easier to apply than the current and can be beneficial for both Squad and the community? Sarcasm doesn't help I'm afraid.

Thankfully your opinion will be respected here. Alas, the KSP console community feel shunned and ignore. So maybe expressing sarcasm is better than expressing anger/frustration.

[Azimech]

Just now, Floby said:

Thankfully your opinion will be respected here. Alas, the KSP console community feel shunned and ignore. So maybe expressing sarcasm is better than expressing anger/frustration.

Don't worry, my reply wasn't aimed at you. Anyway, another reason why a voting system might be beneficial.

[Floby]

Just now, Azimech said:

Don't worry, my reply wasn't aimed at you. Anyway, another reason why a voting system might be beneficial.

Point well taken.

[Pds314]

14 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

But it's so much EASIER to vote in a strawpoll or on the forums.

It's almost like the people who care the most and devote the most time and effort into reporting the bugs get the most say in what gets fixed.

</sarcasm>

 

8 minutes ago, Azimech said:

Do we really need to get philosophical about the fundamentals of democracy or do we think of a system that's easier to apply than the current and can be beneficial for both Squad and the community? Sarcasm doesn't help I'm afraid.

I wonder if a country made voting intentionally obscure and difficult, only worth doing for those who know and care about politics, how that would affect the results?

[Superfluous J]

32 minutes ago, Azimech said:

Do we really need to get philosophical about the fundamentals of democracy or do we think of a system that's easier to apply than the current and can be beneficial for both Squad and the community? Sarcasm doesn't help I'm afraid.

I was not philosophizing. I think that a "democracy" is not what Squad's bug fixing and development efforts need. Squad needs to determine on their own what they want to and can fix. We need to tell them what we want them to fix in as detailed a way as possible, and accept when they don't do everything we want as quickly as we want. If you are not willing to do that, your opinion should not matter because this is not a democracy. It's a company, which is almost the exact opposite.

 

[Azimech]

13 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

I was not philosophizing. I think that a "democracy" is not what Squad's bug fixing and development efforts need. Squad needs to determine on their own what they want to and can fix. We need to tell them what we want them to fix in as detailed a way as possible, and accept when they don't do everything we want as quickly as we want. If you are not willing to do that, your opinion should not matter because this is not a democracy. It's a company, which is almost the exact opposite.

 

And as I stated before, it could be beneficial to both Squad and the community, it could actually help the company in saving resources (money) if implemented right.

I'm much more concerned with Squad's future than some might think.

[RentedTritium]

I feel like having worked on seven digit software projects I think they should do whatever they want in whatever order they want because development is hard and there are variables and dependencies we don't know about. 

[Ser]

4 hours ago, RentedTritium said:

I feel like having worked on seven digit software projects I think they should do whatever they want in whatever order they want because development is hard and there are variables and dependencies we don't know about. 

That's true. But I'm agree with @Azimech that it would be helpful for the devs to have some indication what really annoys the community. Unfortunately, you cannot see it from regular bug reports.

[Chris_2]

22 hours ago, Azimech said:

Isn't it a bit premature for such an opinion? We'll only know for sure if/when we have a voting system. I wrote with a reason it's good to have an estimate how many resources a specific bug would need.

It's not just about resources. Or maybe it is; I don't think Squad has the skills (in terms of having skilled programmers and/or programmers that -really- know the KSP code inside-out.) to fix the more difficult bugs, or implement some really new mechanics, after the team left. Maybe they still have one programmer that has been working on KSP for a long time, so this programmer needs to train all the new employees that they (hopefully?) hire. So, the best thing for these new programmers is to fix easy bugs and implement things like localization (which is a lot of simple but repetitive work), so these programmers familiarize themselves with the code. Even then, we'll still have to wait if any of these new programmers will have the intelligence and passion to really add some new wonderfull things to KSP. Someone like Harvester is really rare to find. Sure, anyone can be taught how to program code, but to be a mastermind takes something more. Hopefully Squad will find such a person, but we'll have to wait until 1.3 or 1.4 to see if new wonderfull things happen.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Chris_2

[klgraham1013]

33 minutes ago, Chris_2 said:

It's not just about resources. Or maybe it is; I don't think Squad has the skills (in terms of having skilled programmers and/or programmers that -really- know the KSP code inside-out.) to fix the more difficult bugs, or implement some really new mechanics, after the team left. Maybe they still have one programmer that has been working on KSP for a long time, so this programmer needs to train all the new employees that they (hopefully?) hire. So, the best thing for these new programmers is to fix easy bugs and implement things like localization (which is a lot of simple but repetitive work), so these programmers familiarize themselves with the code. Even then, we'll still have to wait if any of these new programmers will have the intelligence and passion to really add some new wonderfull things to KSP. Someone like Harvester is really rare to find. Sure, anyone can be taught how to program code, but to be a mastermind takes something more. Hopefully Squad will find such a person, but we'll have to wait until 1.3 or 1.4 to see if new wonderfull things happen.

 

It's almost as though you'd want to keep talented people around until a project is finished.

[Sharpy]

22 hours ago, KroShan said:

'Turn off automatic updates in steam' is no longer possible. One can just choose to update on gamestart - but that doesn't help much. So only your first advice is applicable.

Update only on gamestart. Never start the game from Steam. Create a shortcut to KSP_x64.exe on your desktop, use that.

[RentedTritium]

5 hours ago, Ser said:

That's true. But I'm agree with @Azimech that it would be helpful for the devs to have some indication what really annoys the community. Unfortunately, you cannot see it from regular bug reports.

Transparency is good. 

A middle ground is you develop what you need to develop regardless of what people want, but you still do surveys and every time you release an update you include the survey results in the post and have at least a little paragraph mentioning that other things have to be cleared first but that the survey items are on the agenda. 

But even barring that, everyone here should be aware that if something is in the bug tracking system then it's on their radar and it's going to get done eventually and they're not just blowing you off. 

[Azimech]

52 minutes ago, Chris_2 said:

It's not just about resources. Or maybe it is; I don't think Squad has the skills (in terms of having skilled programmers and/or programmers that -really- know the KSP code inside-out.) to fix the more difficult bugs, or implement some really new mechanics, after the team left. Maybe they still have one programmer that has been working on KSP for a long time, so this programmer needs to train all the new employees that they (hopefully?) hire. So, the best thing for these new programmers is to fix easy bugs and implement things like localization (which is a lot of simple but repetitive work), so these programmers familiarize themselves with the code. Even then, we'll still have to wait if any of these new programmers will have the intelligence and passion to really add some new wonderfull things to KSP. Someone like Harvester is really rare to find. Sure, anyone can be taught how to program code, but to be a mastermind takes something more. Hopefully Squad will find such a person, but we'll have to wait until 1.3 or 1.4 to see if new wonderfull things happen.

I understand your thought but everything is pure speculation, we can't possibly know how the internal structure is nowadays, how well documented the code is etc. And Squad will keep everything quiet, as they should. But maybe a guesstimate can work, it shouldn't be binding though.

We can only try to do our part. We choose to be an even more helpful community or acidic bunch of organic waste exit hatches (not pointing fingers) or we do nothing.

 

 

[klesh]

Thanks for the bugfixes.   Please look into the big seams on the planet surfaces that came with 1.2 prerelease. A more concerning topic is Squad's console strategy.

There are only a few weeks left in 2016 and still no word about the launch of the PS4 version in Europe having been delayed by 6 months, and absolute radio silence on the WiiU edition of KSP.   Its still being advertised on the Nintendo pages as coming out this year.  I'll presume that project has been cancelled altogether?

[Chris_2]

47 minutes ago, Azimech said:

I understand your thought but everything is pure speculation

 

No, it is not. I'm sure if anything cool was going on regarding the development of KSP, it would be in these devnotes. For example if they were working on some real cool and exiting things for KSP 1.3, they would tell us very very proudly (in a way like, guys, you see we are working on this and that cool stuff and everyting is fine out here). Because this is lacking in the devnotes, (and the devnotes are even getting emptier and emptier!), we know exactly what is going on. (nothing...)

 

The only way you can prove me wrong is when there is some cool stuff in 1.3 or 1.4. Which there won't. Some unexciting things will happen for a short time to come (localization, small bugfixes, blah), and then development will go slower and slower until it will cease.

Except, if they find some really new mastermind with great inspiration that will boost developent again. Which I'd love to! I'd love to see overhauled parts, balanced parts, better (once again, this time working!) wheels, multiplayer (I'd even pay for that, alot), etc.etc.etc. But, sorry, I'm really negative about these things (and blame squad management). It would have happened If the dev-team hadn't left! KSP could have been the best-game ever. Now it's nearly the best game ever.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Chris_2

[Azimech]

8 minutes ago, Chris_2 said:

No, it is not. I'm sure if anything cool was going on regarding the development of KSP, it would be in these devnotes. For example if they were working on some real cool and exiting things for KSP 1.3, they would tell us very very proudly (in a way like, guys, you see we are working on this and that cool stuff and everyting is fine out here). Because this is lacking in the devnotes, (and the devnotes are even getting emptier and emptier!), we know exactly what is going on. (nothing...)

 

The only way you can prove me wrong is when there is some cool stuff in 1.3 or 1.4. Which there won't. Some unexciting things will happen for a short time to come (localization, small bugfixes, blah), and then development will go slower and slower until it will cease.

Except, if they find some really new mastermind with great inspiration that will boost developent again. Which I'd love to! I'd love to see overhauled parts, balanced parts, better (once again, this time working!) wheels, multiplayer (I'd even pay for that, alot), etc.etc.etc. But, sorry, I'm really negative about these things (and blame squad management). It would have happened If the dev-team hadn't left! KSP could have been the best-game ever. Now it's nearly the best game ever.

Only time will tell.  I have hope for the future, from what I've been reading and it's a bit vague, they've redirected some of their resources at a future product.

Now this is pure speculation from my part: KSP has some legacy problems which cannot be solved. Unity is not the best platform and never will be. If Squad wants to remain in the games industry, they might need a different engine. They won't develop this in house because that's way too expensive. It wouldn't surprise me if KSP won't be developed beyond a 1.3 or 1.4, instead all the knowledge and experience could be used for a new product without a 5 year old core dragging it down on top of an engine tailored to nothing but creating as many games on as many platforms as possible.

I objected to the decision to create console versions, I predicted eventually Squad would come to see it as a failed experiment. Maybe I'm wrong but until now it seems it's going in that direction.

However.

The fanbase is there, there's a loyal community with modders, the potential is there, they might even have the money. After they fix the worst bugs and maybe use that version to finally update the console versions, it might be time to move on and create something far better than KSP.

 

[KAL 9000]

Great, now I have to update AGAIN! 1.2.1 was only a month ago!

[Azimech]

#FirstWorldProblems :-P

[Tex_NL]

41 minutes ago, KAL 9000 said:

Great, now I have to update AGAIN! 1.2.1 was only a month ago!

And 1.2 a month before that so what's your point?
I hope you will have to get used to it as it would mean development continues.

[KAL 9000]

21 minutes ago, Tex_NL said:

And 1.2 a month before that so what's your point?
I hope you will have to get used to it as it would mean development continues.

Just saying, maybe a lot of stuff can wait for 1.3?

[Azimech]

5 minutes ago, KAL 9000 said:

Just saying, maybe a lot of stuff can wait for 1.3?

Just don't update then, easy.

I have my main Steam install updated, I made a backup of the install as soon I heard 1.2.2 was in experimentals. I'm running 1.2.1 because I don't see the need to use 1.2.2. We should know the drill by now, it's been like this ever since automatic updates was brought to life. Make a backup of your game right after a new update, make a backup again right before a new update. Easy.

But ... Maybe @SQUAD could broadcast this^ message on all available channels a few weeks in advance. The reasons are obvious.

[Redneck]

2 hours ago, Azimech said:

I objected to the decision to create console versions, I predicted eventually Squad would come to see it as a failed experiment. Maybe I'm wrong but until now it seems it's going in that direction.

Totally agree with this statement with the exception of "going in that direction". Its not going there, it is there!