[1.12.x] Near Future Technologies (September 6)

[modus]

@shimmy00Do you have Heat Control installed?

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by modus

[shimmy00]

@modus Thanks. No. I just tried it though; it gave some extra parts but didn't change the behavior. However, I did a couple more experiments and it seems that what is happening is that the amount of heat output the radiator is dissipating is the amount X indicated in the "Radiates X kW at 400 K" in the radiator description, which is along with "Radiates 0 kW at 0 K". I realized this by observing that for each radiator, it would "saturate" (i.e. stop increasing its power output) when its "System Flux" reached the negative of this value.  Now maybe that's how it's supposed to work, but then the "Loop Temperature" is obviously not the radiator temperature, because that would be 400 K; and I think this should be indicated. Moreover, and perhaps more seriously, then it seems to make the parameters "Core Heat xFer" and "Max Cooling", which are typically much higher than the X value above, irrelevant and hence makes me again wonder what the intended behavior here is. In either case for it, though, at least there seem to be descriptive inaccuracies, or else outright bugs, and hence I feel there need to be at least one or the other of the following fixes:

1. If the intended behavior is that it "radiates X kW at 400 K" in that "Max Cooling Temp is 400 K, and it Radiates X kW at Max", and moreover this X is always smaller than the "Core Heat xFer" and "Max Cooling", then the descriptions should be changed so as to indicate these things - in the first case, note that "radiates 0 kW at 0 K" followed by "radiates X kW at 400 K" suggests points on a curve, when really it's a maximum, and in the second, if those levels of transfer cannot be reached because they're always more than the X max dissipation, but have some other relevance, that should be clarified somewhere and,
2. If what's being seen here is not the intended behavior and the radiator temperature and dissipation are intended to be able to rise higher than X, i.e. the dissipating temperature to surpass 400 K, then I'd suggest that, first, a "Radiator Temperature" readout should be added to the panel (under "Heat Radiator") showing what is happening, and a suitably physics-appropriate method should be used to calculate the dissipation (namely, the 4th power law - i.e. if it radiates X kW at 400 K, then when the Radiator Temperature reaches, say, 800 K, it should be radiating 16 times as many kW).

That said, this seems now to explain why the radiators would not glow with heat - if the game is registering them as only 400 K temperature, which is well below the Draper point. (That said, since I haven't then seen what happens when it reaches a really high temp, there might still need to also be some stylistic fixes regarding visuals if, say, at 1600 K it doesn't look like a hot rocket nozzle in color.)

Edited January 11, 2022 by shimmy00

[modus]

Don't have much time (and I am no specialist) and you should probably ask this in the systemheat thread, but "Core Heat Xfer" en "Max Cooling" have nothing to do with SystemHeat. They are legacy parameters from CoreHeat, which is the old system that SystemHeat replaces. When you have SystemHeat they are not used.

I'd suggest reading the SH wiki https://github.com/post-kerbin-mining-corporation/SystemHeat/wiki and the SH thread. 

[shimmy00]

@modus : Thanks. Yeah just recently I was digging and actually didn't realize (likely because I got introduced to mod parts early) that the fold-out radiators were also part of the stock game. With this SystemHeat stuff, that makes more sense; I guess I'll have to look at that. I presume though that for this series of mods (NFT, FFT), SystemHeat is the preferred method, right?

Looked over that and looks like it was mostly a misunderstanding, though I do believe that I identified at least one bug (the strange phantom temperature in the VAB) and the descriptions in the text could be clearer (e.g. that 400 K is the max radiator temperature). Just mentioning that here to close this off.

Edited January 11, 2022 by shimmy00

[Starseeker]

7 hours ago, shimmy00 said:

@modus : Thanks. Yeah just recently I was digging and actually didn't realize (likely because I got introduced to mod parts early) that the fold-out radiators were also part of the stock game. With this SystemHeat stuff, that makes more sense; I guess I'll have to look at that. I presume though that for this series of mods (NFT, FFT), SystemHeat is the preferred method, right?

Looked over that and looks like it was mostly a misunderstanding, though I do believe that I identified at least one bug (the strange phantom temperature in the VAB) and the descriptions in the text could be clearer (e.g. that 400 K is the max radiator temperature). Just mentioning that here to close this off.

The temperature stuff in the VAB is an intended feature afaik; it's running the temperature simulations so that you can see the results of adjustments to your cooling setup immediately.

[flart]

On 2/5/2021 at 10:47 AM, intelliCom said:

In summary, my whole argument is that I want a giant satellite dish to make giant ships look better.

Dmagic Orbital Science have an experiment, that is a giant expandable 10T power dish

[modus]

Warning: it's really giant 

[grungar3x7]

As in, StoopidBigLargeHuge! I mean, trust us, it is CHONK.

[intelliCom]

On 1/13/2022 at 7:18 PM, flart said:

Dmagic Orbital Science have an experiment, that is a giant expandable 10T power dish

Unfortunately, CKAN says max game version is 1.8.3. Not sure if I could. Perhaps @linuxgurugamer could resurrect this one?

[Friznit]

3 hours ago, intelliCom said:

Unfortunately, CKAN says max game version is 1.8.3. Not sure if I could. Perhaps @linuxgurugamer could resurrect this one?

It works fine in the latest version of KSP

[intelliCom]

46 minutes ago, Friznit said:

It works fine in the latest version of KSP

Someone ought to update CKAN then. How are the textures though?

Edited January 16, 2022 by intelliCom

[linuxgurugamer]

3 hours ago, intelliCom said:

Someone ought to update CKAN then. How are the textures though?

You can tell CKAN to accept 1.8 mods as compatible.  Follow these steps:

1. Select menu item:  Settings->Compatible game versions
2. Put a check box in front of 1.8
3. Click Accept

 

[darthgently]

3 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

You can tell CKAN to accept 1.8 mods as compatible.  Follow these steps:

1. Select menu item:  Settings->Compatible game versions
2. Put a check box in front of 1.8
3. Click Accept

 

Often even better, for an individual mod, you can select the "Versions" tab in the lower right when the mod is highlighted in the main window.  In the "Versions" tab, select the latest version (typically).  This will prevent all 1.8.x mods from being considered compatible and limit the exception to only that one mod

[linuxgurugamer]

1 hour ago, darthgently said:

Often even better, for an individual mod, you can select the "Versions" tab in the lower right when the mod is highlighted in the main window.  In the "Versions" tab, select the latest version (typically).  This will prevent all 1.8.x mods from being considered compatible and limit the exception to only that one mod

That's new, and yes, looks like a great solution

[darthgently]

1 hour ago, linuxgurugamer said:

That's new, and yes, looks like a great solution

I've been using the version tab angle since Heburusan pointed it out to me about 1/2 year ago (guessing), so relatively new. 
I know there is some reluctance about CKAN among some modders but if seen as nexus worthy of improvement and support with regards to what it could become (and features it already has, the "versions" tab as an example) I think it would be seen as less of a hassle and more of a good thing.  I'd use it simply for a browser mapping mods to to their support forums if nothing else.  I gather they are working on a KerbalX like functionality that would allow searching mods by specific part names or module names; which of course would be phenomenal when trying to get an old craft working in a new install and trying to figure out what mods it needs to load correctly.
I'd really like to see it incorporate a modder/player opt-in database where logged exceptions, installed mods, versions, os etc were centralized and with a bit of statistics magic, modders could get a heads up that their mod appears to be highly correlated with some exception or other log message on a given os, or when combined with some other mod, and often have a more coordinated fix out before a player even gets around to reporting an issue
 

[intelliCom]

8 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

You can tell CKAN to accept 1.8 mods as compatible.  Follow these steps:

1. Select menu item:  Settings->Compatible game versions
2. Put a check box in front of 1.8
3. Click Accept

 

Problem is that all other mods that are 1.8 will also be considered compatable with my game, and I don't think that's the case for all of them. I know about the game version thing, had to do it for 1.11.x

[darthgently]

45 minutes ago, intelliCom said:

Problem is that all other mods that are 1.8 will also be considered compatable with my game, and I don't think that's the case for all of them. I know about the game version thing, had to do it for 1.11.x

See my response about the Versions tab in the LOWER RIGHT when you have the mod ROW SELECTED in the main window

[Robdriver172]

hi my amalthea command module keeps overheating in re entry. in the vab it states the maximum temp as 2400k but it explodes at anything above 2000k.

is this a bug or am i doing something wrong?  it also states in the f3 menu as 2042/2000k.

[darthgently]

10 hours ago, Robdriver172 said:

hi my amalthea command module keeps overheating in re entry. in the vab it states the maximum temp as 2400k but it explodes at anything above 2000k.

is this a bug or am i doing something wrong?  it also states in the f3 menu as 2042/2000k.

I don't have it installed right now so can't check, but does it have an ablator you can adjust the thickness of?  If so, the 2400k might only be for maximum ablator.  But I really don't know.  Also, makes sure the descent is retrograde, of course.  Also, there are usually 2 temperature limits for capsules, interior and skin.  You may be exceeding the interior temperature, which is usually (always?) lower than the skin temp limit

Edited January 18, 2022 by darthgently

[Robdriver172]

13 hours ago, darthgently said:

I don't have it installed right now so can't check, but does it have an ablator you can adjust the thickness of?  If so, the 2400k might only be for maximum ablator.  But I really don't know.  Also, makes sure the descent is retrograde, of course.  Also, there are usually 2 temperature limits for capsules, interior and skin.  You may be exceeding the interior temperature, which is usually (always?) lower than the skin temp limit

in the editor is states the interior temp as 1000k and exterior as 2400k, so i believe it is a bug of some kind. ablator just works as a heat sink right, making the surface temp lower, but not the temperature limit.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Robdriver172

[darthgently]

2 hours ago, Robdriver172 said:

in the editor is states the interior temp as 1000k and exterior as 2400k, so i believe it is a bug of some kind. ablator just works as a heat sink right, making the surface temp lower, but not the temperature limit.

As I wrote, I really don't know.  I responded because I had a few ideas and no one else smarter responded.  I think the interior temp can be exceeded if you spend too much time at higher temps.  In other words, there is a heat transfer duration involved.  So, last idea: how long are you spending at higher temps?  Does the F3 message indicate if interior or exterior temp was exceeded?  Does this mod have a git repository with associated issues area to report bugs?  I can't remember.   Also, 1000k is a lot less than 2400k, so...

Edited January 18, 2022 by darthgently

[KawaiiLucy]

Has it been considered to add a patch to add the gold foil textures to the structural panel parts? The Restock version looks off when pairing them with the probe cores.

[Robdriver172]

On 1/19/2022 at 12:10 AM, darthgently said:

As I wrote, I really don't know.  I responded because I had a few ideas and no one else smarter responded.  I think the interior temp can be exceeded if you spend too much time at higher temps.  In other words, there is a heat transfer duration involved.  So, last idea: how long are you spending at higher temps?  Does the F3 message indicate if interior or exterior temp was exceeded?  Does this mod have a git repository with associated issues area to report bugs?  I can't remember.   Also, 1000k is a lot less than 2400k, so...

yea i got that, i was hoping the same. i had it multiple times during a high speed plane test. im guessing it is a bug where the game thinks the skin temp limit is 2000k in stead of 2400k, because the internal temp doesn't just jump from 999 to 2040 twice yknow.

[Puggonaut]

Can I ask how to change the fuel types as I would like to Add LiquidFuel & Oxygen as a option to the fuel tank menu ?

[Rakete]

On 8/28/2021 at 10:54 AM, Rakete said:

@Nertea Bug report: NFSC --- Type: control, Severity: Medium

Controlpoint of Mk4-1 Commandpod is twisted 180° degrees around the Z-Axis

 

See here: watch North orientation, NAV-Ball Orientation and Kerbal seating:

 

 

For comparison: The controllpoint orientation in the correct functioning Mk3 Thetys module:

Also observe Crew seating, real North and NAV-Ball North. Here is everything correct. All other NFSC Commandpods work correctly

 

 

The only way to let the big MK4-1 command pod behave okay, is to let the kerbals fly seated upside down.

will pass this over to github.

@Nertea Any chance to get a fix in that or a short info, how to fix it for myself in the configs?