totm nov 2023 SpaceX Discussion Thread

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

2 minutes ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

There was some discussion about this on the NSF livestream. While getting more flip/landing data would certainly be desirable, every time they fly they have to shut down assembly on the orbital launchpad, put away tools, hide the donuts, etc. The big milestone has been accomplished now, concept demonstrated, now orbital reentry is the next long pole, be interesting to see what they do with 15... and 18 and 19...

To that point - I would not be surprised to see a new pad being poured downrange.

[CatastrophicFailure]

 

[tater]

Can't wait for the pad cam looking up. I hope that's a thing.

[magnemoe]

1 hour ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

There was some discussion about this on the NSF livestream. While getting more flip/landing data would certainly be desirable, every time they fly they have to shut down assembly on the orbital launchpad, put away tools, hide the donuts, etc. The big milestone has been accomplished now, concept demonstrated, now orbital reentry is the next long pole, be interesting to see what they do with 15... and 18 and 19...

They still has some issues however like the fire but I believe they solved the fuel flow during flip issues.  
For going orbital they need an superheavy and finishing sn20.  Obviously also finishing the orbital launch infrastructure and test superheavy at least an static burn. 
As you say more jumps slows down infrastructure. They can just as well assemble sn16 and 17 hulls who I believe is the only ones before 20. 

[kerbiloid]

So, they failed the explosion.

[Brotoro]

12 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

So, they failed the explosion.

Looks like it. Now we wait to see if they can fail at burning up during reentry.

[Flavio hc16]

Imho with Sn16 they should try going up at full throttle so the starship go supersonic, then shut down the engines and do everything like Sn15. It should be able to go supersonic and stay around 10 Kms (12.5?-20?), right? Someone can do the math?

Then with Sn17 try a 100/150 km hop, so it arrives at 1-1.5 km/s so it can start takling hipersonic aereodynamic and you can probably still try it with no heat shield ( and you test the reentry heating of the superheavy meanwhile)

Edited May 6, 2021 by Flavio hc16

[Brotoro]

Is the FAA going to allow SpaceX to try reentering prototype Starships over land?  Can SpaceX satisfy the FAA that they won't be spreading debris (including some heavy pieces like Raptor engines an header tanks) across Texas? Or that they can reliably predict where the untested ship will even come down if it stays in one piece?  Will they make them put the first one down out in Kwajalein atoll or some other spot in the big open ocean?  Does SpaceX have a recovery ship capable of handling a Starship landing? I presume the converted oil rigs aren't far enough out to prevent spreading debris over Texas if the Starship fails early in reentry, yes?

[Xd the great]

17 minutes ago, Brotoro said:

Is the FAA going to allow SpaceX to try reentering prototype Starships over land?  Can SpaceX satisfy the FAA that they won't be spreading debris (including some heavy pieces like Raptor engines an header tanks) across Texas? Or that they can reliably predict where the untested ship will even come down if it stays in one piece?  Will they make them put the first one down out in Kwajalein atoll or some other spot in the big open ocean?  Does SpaceX have a recovery ship capable of handling a Starship landing? I presume the converted oil rigs aren't far enough out to prevent spreading debris over Texas if the Starship fails early in reentry, yes?

Would it be possible to re-use the space shuttle's entry profile?

[CatastrophicFailure]

Well, now we know... sort of...

 

[magnemoe]

58 minutes ago, Brotoro said:

Is the FAA going to allow SpaceX to try reentering prototype Starships over land?  Can SpaceX satisfy the FAA that they won't be spreading debris (including some heavy pieces like Raptor engines an header tanks) across Texas? Or that they can reliably predict where the untested ship will even come down if it stays in one piece?  Will they make them put the first one down out in Kwajalein atoll or some other spot in the big open ocean?  Does SpaceX have a recovery ship capable of handling a Starship landing? I presume the converted oil rigs aren't far enough out to prevent spreading debris over Texas if the Starship fails early in reentry, yes?

This is an very good question, no it can not use the shuttle reentry profile, it fall faster and the shuttle did not land in southern Texas anyway. 

An converted oil rig might solve the issue,  as  the most dangerous lower part is over water. 
One benefit is that starship is falling fast with an low glide ratio so the danger zone is shorter. If it break up it will fall ballistic anyway. 

[RCgothic]

A better than usual article about the SN15 launch from the BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57004604.amp

 

[CastleKSide]

Anyone know how far along the conversion of the oilrigs are? I know we have been watching the development at database very closely, but if be interested to know how soon they could have a rig in the ocean to conduct landings. If there is now a sudden speedup of activity to get one of them ready, it would give a good idea what the plan is.

[YNM]

2 hours ago, Brotoro said:

Can SpaceX satisfy the FAA that they won't be spreading debris (including some heavy pieces like Raptor engines an header tanks) across Texas?

I'm more concerned that you only have 3 miles beyond the landing area before you hit a different country entirely. Spreading debris over Texas isn't entirely new.

 

Probably wouldn't re-enter and land on their current landing spot. Or even if they do at least one flight first landing on the water.

Edited May 6, 2021 by YNM

[Cuky]

First of all, if any one from SpaceX reads this thread - Congratulations. As always you guys and girls take what is deemed to be impossible and prove that it in fact is possible.

 

On the other hand, I'm very disappointed in the media coverage yet again, at least here in Croatia. When starships were blowing up there were articles all over the place how "Elon's rocket has failed yet again", but now when test goes successfully I couldn't find even one article about it.

[KSK]

That was a landing
I'm making a note here
Huge success
It's hard to overstate my satisfaction

SpaceX
They do what they must because they can
For the good of all of us
Except the Boeing stockholders.

 

But there's no sense crying over every wee crash
You just keep on trying 'til you run out of cash
And the rockets go boom and you land on the Moon
For the people who are gonna fly.

 

I'm not even angry
I'm being so sincere right now
Even though the first one crashed
The second one smashed
And the third one blew up in a fire
As they burned it hurt because
I was unhappy for you

Now these points of data make a beautiful line
And we're out of beta, we're releasing on time
So I'm glad the third burned
Think of all the things we learned
For the people who are gonna fly

Edited May 6, 2021 by KSK

[Flying dutchman]

Congratulations to SpaceX and sn15!!

History was defenately made today

 

i would really like to hear Scott manley's take on the two engine landing though.

[CastleKSide]

Different view of the landing for your enjoyment and over analysis

[Xd the great]

20 minutes ago, Flying dutchman said:

i would really like to hear Scott manley's take on the two engine landing though.

Two engines for redundancy?

[Minmus Taster]

 

[GuessingEveryDay]

20 minutes ago, Xd the great said:

Two engines for redundancy?

SN8, SN9 tried using 2 engines, and you clearly know what happened to them. SN10 tried starting 3 engines then turning off one. But then swallowed some helium and choked. Elon did say that SN15 was the first SN to have the upgrades necessary to prevent the problems of SN8, SN9, and SN10. And clearly it has worked.

[Lewie]

2 hours ago, KSK said:

That was a landing
I'm making a note here
Huge success
It's hard to overstate my satisfaction

SpaceX
They do what they must because they can
For the good of all of us
Except the Boeing stockholders.

 

But there's no sense crying over every wee crash
You just keep on trying 'til you run out of cash
And the rockets go boom and you land on the Moon
For the people who are gonna fly.

 

I'm not even angry
I'm being so sincere right now
Even though the first one crashed
The second one smashed
And the third one blew up in a fire
As they burned it hurt because
I was unhappy for you

Now these points of data make a beautiful line
And we're out of beta, we're releasing on time
So I'm glad the third burned
Think of all the things we learned
For the people who are gonna fly

That was beautiful!!

Now, only if Elon will hire Ellen for this lil ditty....

[YNM]

18 minutes ago, GuessingEveryDay said:

Elon did say that SN15 was the first SN to have the upgrades necessary to prevent the problems of SN8, SN9, and SN10. And clearly it has worked.

I will say... SN8 I think had the start-up in consequently rather than at the same time ? Or is that due to the fuel starvation and whatever they changed inside is what makes this possible ?

[tater]

 

6 hours ago, Brotoro said:

Is the FAA going to allow SpaceX to try reentering prototype Starships over land?  Can SpaceX satisfy the FAA that they won't be spreading debris (including some heavy pieces like Raptor engines an header tanks) across Texas? Or that they can reliably predict where the untested ship will even come down if it stays in one piece?  Will they make them put the first one down out in Kwajalein atoll or some other spot in the big open ocean?  Does SpaceX have a recovery ship capable of handling a Starship landing? I presume the converted oil rigs aren't far enough out to prevent spreading debris over Texas if the Starship fails early in reentry, yes?

These are all good questions.

There is no possible way they have the 2 oil rigs ready by the time the pad is ready, either.

Maybe A Shortfall of Gravitas is actually done (and larger), and could be used out in the Gulf?

Actually, the existing drone ships could work. Look above. F9 is 3.7m in diameter, SS is substantially smaller than the gear footprint of F9.

[SpaceFace545]

4 hours ago, KSK said:

For the good of all of us

please explain this