mikegarrison Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 1 minute ago, tater said: True. I suppose the question is if they think the extra complexity—just for those outer engines—is worth it. If an engine had a flameout (is that likely in a rocket engine vs a jet engine?), would they simply burn longer withthe remaining engines, and maybe use some gimbaling? Well, if you want to really reduce part counts and spares and such, actually you might want all your engines to be swappable. Just mount it with a gimbal or no gimbal; bolt on a SL nozzle or a vac nozzle, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 11 minutes ago, mikegarrison said: Well, if you want to really reduce part counts and spares and such, actually you might want all your engines to be swappable. Just mount it with a gimbal or no gimbal; bolt on a SL nozzle or a vac nozzle, etc. For "not Raptor" maybe that's the plan. For Raptor from what he has said (Tim Dodd interview/tour), it sounds like the Rboosts are simpler because they don't throttle (much?), don't gimbal at all. SL are what we have seen, throttle to ~40%, gimbal. And the vac engines that they have right now that also work at SL (no gimbal, unsure on throttle). Course he did say the next fundamental issue is solving engine production. He has that "aspirational" goal of Raptors costing $250,000 each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 10 minutes ago, tater said: He has that "aspirational" goal of Raptors costing $250,000 each. Adding to that, it was reportedly approaching a million last year, so right now it is now likely under level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shpaget Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 1 hour ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said: Yeah - that caught my attention, too. What do you want to bet they're already half-way to figuring that out? I'm not taking that bet, but it does sound incredible. Raptor hasn't even flown to space yet and it's already being deprecated. Anybody wants to take a guess at the improvements, other than changes aimed at manufacturing streamlining? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealKerbal3x Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Shpaget said: I'm not taking that bet, but it does sound incredible. Raptor hasn't even flown to space yet and it's already being deprecated. Anybody wants to take a guess at the improvements, other than changes aimed at manufacturing streamlining? Raptor isn't being deprecated, Elon seems to be simply speculating on future developments. This new engine is probably a long way out. Given the way he's talking about it, I doubt this new engine has even started its early development yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piscator Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 I guess it would be possible that they're thinking about switching to a less complicated engine cycle (respectively a less complicated engine in general). Having a very high engine efficiency is obviously nice, but being cheap, reliable and easy to maintain might be worth more when all is said and done. This would also seem in line with the "the less parts the better" design philosophy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCgothic Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 Changing engine is not easily done. Basically the whole rocket is designed around the engine choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elthy Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 I dont think elon talks about a new engine in terms of specs, he wants to mass-produce it in extremly high numbers (>10000/year) and that likely means redesigning almost all parts with totaly different fabrication technologies. Im not sure if they are currently using additive manufacturing, but that would be the first thing to swap out for massproduction and result in complete redesign of the parts as most other technologies cant produce the complexity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 It's also possible we will hear more about this at today's starship discussion with Musk https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-elon-musk-2021-starship-update-livestream/ It's later today at 6 pm EST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 It should be called Raptor-33. Raptor-15 they already have, Spoiler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubinator Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 It sounds to me like they'd be able to do trips to Mars with Raptor, but not colonize it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuessingEveryDay Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 Considering they're staying with birds of prey, perhaps the Goshawk, as the next name? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 Draco → Superdraco Raptor → Superraptor Because Falcon → Falcon Heavy Starship → Superheavy *** So, engines are super-, rockets are -heavy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSchmuckatelli Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 8 hours ago, tater said: implies something profoundly different That's what I'm pondering. Mostly about what purpose is the next engine? Given most of the trip to Mars is vac > is he talking about lower cost / more efficient vac engines or given that the big challenge is to get clear of Earth's gravity have they found efficiencies to be gained by a new approach to the ASL engine? And will it be one engine or two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakaydos Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 They've already hit on the "part reduction" of making the Upper Stage, Mars transit craft, and earth return vehical the same structure. Any optimization of the engine is going to have to work for all three regimes. Put me down for "One of our interns came up with a cool idea that'll probably be cheaper, but means throwing out everything we've been doing with Raptor." They'll indulge sunk costs for Raptor 2, get the production line running for Raptor 2, and then the engine team will dive into this other idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSchmuckatelli Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 7 hours ago, Shpaget said: other than changes aimed at manufacturing streamlining It cannot be that simple. You don't rename the engine because you got better at building it. Or even if you make incremental improvements. It gets a new name if it is enough different that you have to distinguish the old from the new. That's what caught my eye - 'won't be called Raptor' - because the implications are huge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said: You don't rename the engine because you got better at building it Never underestimate the reasons for which spacex may rename something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicTech Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 It's not Raptor anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, AtomicTech said: It's not Raptor anymore? It is, the discussion begun with this tweet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakaydos Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, AtomicTech said: It's not Raptor anymore? Raptor 3 wont be Raptor anymore, but Raptor 2 will still exist. Edited November 17, 2021 by Rakaydos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicTech Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 The discussion's been rather long and I didn't notice the tweet. Thanks for pointing it out! So, what names do you think would fit the former Raptor 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 1 minute ago, AtomicTech said: The discussion's been rather long and I didn't notice the tweet. Thanks for pointing it out! So, what names do you think would fit the former Raptor 2? BFR, which obviously stands for Big Falcon Raptor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codraroll Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, AtomicTech said: The discussion's been rather long and I didn't notice the tweet. Thanks for pointing it out! So, what names do you think would fit the former Raptor 2? Fans of a certain KSP mod will know. Emu for sea level engines, Penguin for vacuum engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakaydos Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, AtomicTech said: The discussion's been rather long and I didn't notice the tweet. Thanks for pointing it out! So, what names do you think would fit the former Raptor 2? "Raptor 2 has siginificant improvements in every way, but a complete design overhaul is necessary for the engile that ACTUALLY makes "life multiplanetary"" Raptor 2 still exists, it just wont be eneough to make life multiplanetary. We already knew "raptor wont be really ready until, like Raptor v5", so it looks like "Raptor v5" is going to be this new engine. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1413909599711907845?s=20 Edited November 17, 2021 by Rakaydos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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