Are we finally Happy? i'd like to know.

[Agarwel]

Personally I would really like to hear the real story behind this port troubles. Not as a apology or some pr damage control. But just out of curiosity how this situation can really happen.
1,5year ago we received really bad port. It was in pretty bad shape and it seems that the developer were not able to fix it. Everybody blamed FTE for bad port of course. And we were happy to hear new developers were hired to do the job.
After six months (end of 2016) the new port was considered to be ready. We received announcement, that it is going to be released early 2017. Then there were another years of delays of polishing, testing and fixing bugs. Yet the new port is again buggy as hell. Many bugs same as the old ones.
And we are again blaming Blitz for poor job porting.

But are they really the ones to blame? When Im thinking about this by common sense, is it possible that the original source code is really so messy and bad, that if you change anything, the game falls apart and creates bugs everywhere? I mean how is it possible that when you change control scheme and change the HW the whole game has so many "unrelated" bugs? I can understand the control lock bugs, because the controls were redone. I could understand performance issues because we are not runing in on high end PC. I could understand physics bugs caused by different architecture. But how is it possible that game allows you to recover vessels in space? That after undocking, they still behave as one? That game is not saved properly? I mean this is managed by a game code that is already written by Squad and there should not be a need to touch it during porting, right?

So considering the state of two independed ports, Im really not sure if FTE and Blitz are to Blame? I mean their job is port the game to another console (done), update controls (done). But are they really the ones to go and polish messy source code they are porting? (if that is the case) But considering that porting the same code by two different developers let to very similar results, maybe there is really some troubles with the original code?

[Clipperride]

On 28/01/2018 at 12:00 PM, Leopard said:

Sorry I don't see basic functionality like on screen controls failing to respond as a "quirk", I see it as game breaking and a sign of an exceedingly poor QA process.

I didn't read your reply straight away as the votes change the order posts pear in a thread.  I don't know if I've just been lucky, or if there are major difference between Career and Science mode?

It's taken some getting used to the differences between versions (Especially remembering to come out of Time Warp mode - which causes sudden panic when you're approaching a target!)

The only bugs I've encountered are; having to re-enter the R&D building after spending science points to make sure the game remembers what I've unlocked. Sometimes, when reverting a flight to the VAB, it reverts to launch and then switches view to the VAB, meaning there's still a rocket on the launch pad.

You have my sympathy if you are experiencing game breaking bugs. Fingers crossed that they are quickly resolved with a patch.

[HebaruSan]

21 hours ago, Agarwel said:

But how is it possible that game allows you to recover vessels in space? That after undocking, they still behave as one? That game is not saved properly? I mean this is managed by a game code that is already written by Squad and there should not be a need to touch it during porting, right?

These are interesting questions, and I have a guess. The main thing a console port has to do is reimplement the UI, and most of the bugs being reported relate somewhat to the new UI systems (including a lot of the bugs SQUAD themselves reported in the Weeklies). So my guess is that the new UI coding had to be far more intrusive than it ought to have been due to the way the core game was developed.

Normally you would want important complex processes like undocking and the checking of preconditions such as "Am I landed on Kerbin?" for recovery to be implemented in core "business logic" components, separate and independent from your UI. The UI code is then then kept simple and just calls into the appropriate hooks provided by business logic components. Ideally any rule about how the physics/auto-saving/money/etc. works should be independent of any UI code, so you can rip out one UI and replace it with another and everything should still work the same.

SQUAD surely didn't expect to have to replace their UI in the early days, so they may not have followed that rule. So, maybe half of the game's business logic is embedded in the PC code's UI components. For example, maybe the job of checking whether you should be allowed to recover a vessel was done in the specific callback for the button that PC players click to accomplish that (or even by enabling/disabling the button), rather than in a generic vessel recovery function. Maybe the complex vessel reorganization tasks involved in undocking are tightly coupled to the right click menu option that PC players click to undock.

This then would mean that when a console port is done, the port developer can't simply call in to a simple UI-agnostic function for each piece of functionality, but rather has to re-implement much of it in new code, possibly via copy-and-paste from the old UI code, but in a different framework. This would naturally lead to bugs as assumptions are missed, timing is changed, steps are skipped, and complex processes no longer work exactly as before. Code to enable/disable a button would be particularly easy to miss if you didn't know to check for it. And of course this inflates the amount of new code that needs to be written and tested, and therefore the bugs as well.

(Disclaimer, I haven't played the console ports, so I'm speculating somewhat about how they work. Take this with a grain of salt. But for example if there's anything like a new menu system that replaces old PC UI systems, I'd expect those menu options to be relatively high risk if there's anything to this speculation.)

[Agarwel]

HebaruSan: That is basically what I ment. People blame FTE and Blitz for doing bad job. But considering both independednt ports led to similar bugs. And that at least Blitz is experienced port developer (they released many ports without issues), it just feels the source of the problem may be elsewhere.

By common sense it just seems that original source code is maybe mess. And these developers take upon themself ungratefull job of porting something that needs much more work than what is usually needed to do normal port. (I mean porting the game should really not include modification of how the game logic behaves. You update controls, gui, graphic to run smoothly and take care of some technical stuff like certification, etc... But that should be basically it, right?)

[Socraticat]

On 1/16/2018 at 12:20 AM, AndyChilly said:

1) Are the controls clunky or is it just me?

2) I saw no launch button in assembly build and have to access it from the start menu. Is this intentional?

3) Is there a Debug menu? wasnt that supposed to be part of the update?

4) Auto-struts, is that was the Rigid assembly button it all about? i thought there was supposed to be more options than that?

Still....pretty Shadows right?

1. A bit. Some changes are nice, others are frustrating. All are buggy (not game crashing, yet)

2. Yes, Maybe, I don't know. It's the same for me. Is that really a problem?

3. Cheat menu. Maybe, did you read that somewhere?

4. Rigid assembly and auto-strut. Two different functions. Tight joints vs invisible strings.

 

The real gamebreaker is here https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/17040

Usually happens later/ mid career.

[Greenthumb Gaming]

So for the 2nd time the enhanced edition has locked up my ps4 rendering it useless until I do a manual reset putting the system into "Safe Mode" ????  First time I had to unplug the system just to get it unfreeze itself, which is totally unnecessary and extremely infuriating as this also happened on the old version a few times as well. I know it's not the system because I've upgrade to the PS4 pro since then and this is the ONLY game this has happened with. Totally unacceptable as we have waiting for a finished product and definitely this still has a few bugs that need to be patched ASAP. I really didn't want it to come to me comparing old with the new but I had to bring this up. Is anyone else experiencing this? 

 

EDIT: WOW!!! So I start the game back up and surprise....all save data gone... SERIOUSLY I'M DONE...If they can't get this together last year or right now I'm afraid console editions are screwed.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Greenthumb Gaming

[Majorjim!]

4 minutes ago, Greenthumb Gaming said:

EDIT: WOW!!! So I start the game back up and surprise....all save data gone... SERIOUSLY I'M DONE...If they can't get this together last year or right now I'm afraid console editions are screwed.

You are right, its totally unacceptable.. @SQUAD?

[Kerbal007]

The game is rubbish for me. I hate the controls. Why squad wont just implement keyboard and mouse is beyond me. Show some love to all users and playstyles

[Ekim]

Hey devs fix this broken ass game for ducks sakes!!! 

Im on Xbox and this game is trash! Controls are ok but Xbox’s can’t keep up, it lags slows right down, docking is impossible because the target is traveling slower on the same orbit but is catching me and viseversa  along with countless other issues getting to the target. Not to mention I can’t even lock the loveing thing  

first and last time I buy a product from such a crappy company. 

Edited February 16, 2018 by Ekim

[Vanamonde]

Overlapping threads have been merged. 

[DunaManiac]

I just feel like... people should have some faith for once. Before KSP enhanced edition, many people thought that there would never be an update. And we got one. Then a few people said that that this is the final version even though it's buggy, and we got a patch. People who don't have faith always seem to be proven wrong... am I right?

On 2/15/2018 at 7:23 PM, Ekim said:

Hey devs fix this broken ass game for ducks sakes!!! 

Im on Xbox and this game is trash! Controls are ok but Xbox’s can’t keep up, it lags slows right down, docking is impossible because the target is traveling slower on the same orbit but is catching me and viseversa  along with countless other issues getting to the target. Not to mention I can’t even lock the loveing thing  

first and last time I buy a product from such a crappy company. 

It's fixed at least

 

[Agarwel]

On 24. 2. 2018 at 1:44 PM, DunaManiac said:

It's fixed at least

 

It is not. Some issues were fixed. But the main gamebreaking bugs (control locks, save locks, save corruption, un-docking issue) are still there. And some people (for example myself) can not even start the game at all. (I would not call that fixed).

So they still have a lot work ahead of them before it is "fixed and working"

[DunaManiac]

For me it's absolutely fine! The timewarp bug seems to have gone away!!! Others may think otherwise, but i'm content. I certainly think it's fixed and working.

[Leopard]

Working better here, not found anything thats a blocker since installing the patch, there are a few issues still but critically the game appears to be behaving better than the re-release and so far no worse than the first release.

not played long enough to see if the save corruption issues that the first edition had are truely gone or just pushed further out - have noticed the "save" animation now though with the game no longer trying background saves quite as often - likely part of the corruption issue and frankly I prefer this way

[Farm Buyer]

yep,

 

can't move craft files, can't do custom flags,  can't use mods, (not the developer's/owners fault... this is an issue inherent to consoles, and to be expected even though it sucks.) can't get a straight answer if version updates will be made to keep us at near parity with the PC version, can't get a straight answer if expansions will be made available.  (stuff DEFINITELY WITHIN THE DEVELOPERS/OWNERS PURVIEW, and DON'T TELL ME IT HASN'T BEEN DISCUSSED INTERNALLY... every facet of the game's development for the next few years has been planned. fine details likely remain to be hashed out, but the basic road map? THEY KNOW. )  All we see for consoles is Whole lotta "Can't"...  very little "Can"  

 

but hey,  once again they have reiterated  "a commitment to continue supporting Enhanced Edition."   no one  at TT, SQUAD or Biltworks will discuss what exactly what that support actually entails, or what future plans are... but they are committed to "IT"!  meanwhile, look at all the new shiny stuff YOU console gutter snipes WON'T get!!  aren't we cool!  new space suits, a pile of new parts,  personal parachutes... but only for the chosen.   you dupes that paid full price for a broken game a year and a half ago... will get a stable out of date game... maybe... Some day... when we feel like it. 

and you irritated fellows, know your place and listen to the fanbois that tell you you are out of line... because reasons. 

That's good? right... RIGHT?! 

 

 

[Vanamonde]

@Farm Buyer, your post has been moved to a thread where it's not off-topic. 

[Chel]

On 13 February 2018 at 5:46 PM, Kerbal007 said:

The game is rubbish for me. I hate the controls. Why squad wont just implement keyboard and mouse is beyond me. Show some love to all users and playstyles

There is a Cursor control mode which is available, and you can hook up a USB keyboard to your Xbox or PS4 and use a mouse. 

 

On 7 March 2018 at 7:53 AM, Farm Buyer said:

meanwhile, look at all the new shiny stuff YOU console gutter snipes WON'T get!!  aren't we cool!  new space suits, a pile of new parts,  personal parachutes... but only for the chosen.   you dupes that paid full price for a broken game a year and a half ago... will get a stable out of date game... maybe... Some day... when we feel like it. 

and you irritated fellows, know your place and listen to the fanbois that tell you you are out of line... because reasons. 

That's good? right... RIGHT?! 

 

 

Not wanting an argument here, but are you trying to be all 'PC Master Race' and everything? Just because somebody plays a game on a different platform doesn't make them better or worse. Some people can only play it on a console, because they can't afford a good computer, mouse, keyboard, desk, chair, and everything else needed for PC gaming. I bought the EE because I was tired of having only 20-25fps on my laptop, and I don't regret it. So please, don't hate the console players, when you don't even have a proper reason to. 

[Farm Buyer]

On 4/10/2018 at 1:59 PM, The_Cat_In_Space said:

There is a Cursor control mode which is available, and you can hook up a USB keyboard to your Xbox or PS4 and use a mouse. 

 

Not wanting an argument here, but are you trying to be all 'PC Master Race' and everything? Just because somebody plays a game on a different platform doesn't make them better or worse. Some people can only play it on a console, because they can't afford a good computer, mouse, keyboard, desk, chair, and everything else needed for PC gaming. I bought the EE because I was tired of having only 20-25fps on my laptop, and I don't regret it. So please, don't hate the console players, when you don't even have a proper reason to. 

it seems the sarcasm and irony are lost on you my boy.    

I'm a console player. 

and as a console player,  we ARE de facto second class citizens of the community.  

1. We started off with a broken game and it took 1.5 years to rectify. with very little communication from the developers.

2. the product we were given after the reboot was still broken, albeit somewhat less so.  with very little communication from the developers on the path to fixing it 

3. meanwhile during the weekly updates, the PC version gets multiple paragraphs with details of all the really nifty stuff that they are doing to the game, we are lucky if we got a single canned paragraph stating "we are working on the problems"

4. none of the developers (squad) or console port team (biltworks) will commit to saying if we will get the 1.4 update (and the new stock features within) OR a shot at buying the making history expansion (and the new parts they have been touting for the past 12 months)  as far as console is concerned we've been guaranteed a stable game, in the version that it was released in. that is it. 

5. the PC players here seem to be most concerned with telling me I'm out of line for being POed  and voicing my disapproval at the lack of communication, lack of transparency and the overall poor condition of the game that I spent my money on.  

 

Don't get me wrong - I love KSP, and If I had a PC that could run it, I'd buy it again and run it there, and get all the good stuff.but I can't justify buying a better computer just to play 1 game.   console is what I have, and console is how I intend to play.I just want what I paid for:  a stable version of Kerbal Space Program.  when KSP came to console under FTE, it was touted as being the same version as the original.  now, 1.5 years later... this is NOT what we got.

if what I paid for was "KSP lite"  due to the limited capabilities of  console hardware, then  Squad and Biltworks need to just be honest and say so.reps from both companies view these forums - and as yet I've not received ANY feedback from them. only PC players that tell me I'm out of line.