Updated Terms Notice & Privacy Policy

[purpleivan]

10 minutes ago, micr0wave said:

It wasn't so much about the good that was traded, more about the trade 'ethics'.

Altering the conditions after the deal is done isn't honest business imho.

Ask Lando Calrissian

Perhaps for a physical, unchanging asset, but for software which is periodically updated, changing user agreements is pretty much standard practice.

For practical purposes, the agreement for the original software has not been changed, as you could still run that without agreeing to new terms. It's only when updating and therefore adding something not part of the original "deal", that the new conditions apply.

Edited April 28, 2018 by purpleivan

[Cheif Operations Director]

8 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Imagin you buy a car for $20 years and then drive it for free and then the dealsership comes to your home and says "We changed the contract from now on we can track your car or you can return it to use this very instance... your choice"

 

 

2 minutes ago, purpleivan said:

Perhaps for a physical asset, but for software changing user agreements, which is periodically updated, is pretty much standard practice.

For practical purposes, the agreement for the original software has not been changed, as you could still run that without agreeing to new terms. It's only when updating and therefore adding something not part of the original "deal", that the new conditions apply.

 

 

3 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

But the terms of the deal included them being able to alter the deal. Claiming that the deal you signed is different than what you signed isn't honest either.

 

 

 

Imagin you buy a car for $20 years and then drive it for free and then the dealsership comes to your home and says "We changed the contract from now on we can track your car or you can continue to use it without getting your oil, tires, engine, mats, or any other accessories changed. 

[klgraham1013]

2 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

But the terms of the deal included them being able to alter the deal. Claiming that the deal you signed is different than what you signed isn't honest either.

...and having such a clause in a contract isn't exactly what I'd call honest business.  It's purely one sided and lacks a certain degree of ethics.

[silverfox101]

You do have the option of not accepting the new contract 

[Dunbaratu]

The problem is that Take 2 uses the same generic boilerplate stuff for all EULAs even when it makes no sense and doesn't apply.  Kerbal Space Program doesn't even access the stuff the EULA claims they now need this new permission for.  (i.e. how exactly does KSP know your phone number?)  The reason this text is in the EULA is that they make it a one-size-fits-all EULA and not only apply it to all  the games but also to the *website forum*.  Website fora need some of these permissions so people can't come back later and say "I hereby rescind your right to show the content I composed and typed into comments on your forum.  Delete all my posts now."  MMO's also need some of these permissions in order to ensure player identity is what it says it is (no sockpuppet accounts).  But by also using the same EULA on all games they publish it ends up looking very scary indeed.  Yes, the people who don't like the new EULA are right that it looks very bad.  But the reason is laziness, not malice.  They don't want to bother writing a different EULA for every different game's individual circumstances.

[Waxing_Kibbous]

Not long ago it was either buy a game and have it run clean, or get it for free and you are the product (not counting the many great FOSS projects out there, just the skeevy ones). Now companies want to charge you and make you the product? No thanks, I didn't need the DLC that bad anyways. I paid the full $40 for this game but now they want to reserve the right to data mine me- lame.

[silverfox101]

@Waxing_Kibbous What data do you expect they will be mining?

[Cheif Operations Director]

6 minutes ago, silverfox101 said:

You do have the option of not accepting the new contract 

Imagin you buy a car for $20 years and then drive it for free and then the dealsership comes to your home and says "We changed the contract from now on we can track your car or you can continue to use it without getting your oil, tires, engine, mats, or any other accessories changed. 

[purpleivan]

13 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Imagin you buy a car for $20 years and then drive it for free and then the dealsership comes to your home and says "We changed the contract from now on we can track your car or you can continue to use it without getting your oil, tires, engine, mats, or any other accessories changed. 

I'm afraid your analogy isn't correct. A more accurate one would be that you bought the $20 car and drove it free of charge for a few years (steal of a deal BTW), then the dealership says "we have an update available for the car... fixes a few issue and and adds some features to the entertainment system. But we'll need to you to allow us to grab some data from it while you drive if you want the updates."

You bought a version of KSP, you can still play that version of KSP (plus any you added before the changed conditions) without any further agreement being made. But if you want the benefit of work which goes beyond the product that the agreement you made (i.e. when you bought the version of KSP available at the time) then the publisher is requiring you to make a new agreement.

Nothing dishonest about that.

Edited April 28, 2018 by purpleivan

[silverfox101]

Totally agree with @purpleivan post

P.S Where are these dealerships selling $20 cars. 

Edited April 28, 2018 by silverfox101

[Triop]

In the end it's all about making money, taking all the fun out of it.

A good example of this is Star Wars.

 

[klgraham1013]

13 minutes ago, silverfox101 said:

Totally agree with @purpleivan post

P.S Where are these dealerships selling $20 cars. 

I don't know, but they seem to be everywhere.

[silverfox101]

12 minutes ago, Triop said:

In the end it's all about making money, taking all the fun out of it.

A good example of this is Star Wars.

 

People cant work for nothing, money needs to be made.

[Triop]

5 minutes ago, silverfox101 said:

People cant work for nothing, money needs to be made.

I understand that, but everything starts with the passion for your product.

Once that is picked up by a community and you are start making money the vultures fly in.

What's left after that are some bleached bones. . .

[klgraham1013]

31 minutes ago, silverfox101 said:

People cant work for nothing, money needs to be made.

The Star Wars loot crates weren't there to pay employees.

[silverfox101]

1 hour ago, klgraham1013 said:

The Star Wars loot crates weren't there to pay employees.

I don't know much about Star Wars loot crates but presumably the people that can afford to buy them do so because they want them. That's the way of things.

As far as Take two and KSP perhaps the take two label will attract new players to purchase KSP, which wont be a bad thing. Agreement terms change all the time, choose to agree or not its up to the individual, but if said individuals have agreed to the new terms I see little point  in objecting to them once the "I Agree" button has been clicked.

Edited April 28, 2018 by silverfox101

[Tewa]

4 hours ago, Fwiffo said:

@klgraham1013 Sorry, I missed the extent of this until a friend pointed me to that Twitter post.  Care to link that other discussion?

So you were fine until the internet told you to be paranoid.

Where have we heard this before? Oh yeah, everywhere.

[silverfox101]

Spyware??? hang on let me make a new foil hat before I respond 

I for one wont be uninstalling KSP and I have to say the people that are objecting are probably users of Steam, Twitter, Facebook and they don't collect data do they.

Edited April 28, 2018 by silverfox101

[Lisias]

I don't like these terms as (almost) anybody else. But you can't win this fight, at least for now - and ditching KSP will not help you on this.

Some years ago I tried in the most paranoid way to preserve my privacy online. Had one email for each main service (and an semi-thowaway one for the minor ones), *never* shared my private data (as security number, phone number or even my personal email, etc).

But then Android happens. People that know me gladly fed Google's and Facebook's databases with what they know about me, and so they reached me: one nice day Google offered me to use my not so anymore private number to use as two factor auth one my google plus (that *was not* used on the same email I use on Android,). Few weeks later, Facebook asked confirmation of personal info that *I NEVER* shared online.

The war is over, I lost. I'm a Steam user now, so all these data is already in TTI's hands anyway - what include my real identity, as I use Credit Cards on Steam. =/

I don't need to worry about these EULA terms. TTI already have access to everything through third parties, they just don't need me to agree with this.

Edited April 28, 2018 by Lisias
One more thing I forgot to add in my argument.

[silverfox101]

yeah I use credit card myself, I own a house, pay bills, taxes, I'm on the electoral register so I can vote, I pay an ISP to allow me to use the internet,I don't use facebook or twitter but I'm sure the powers that be know enough already. You want privacy on the internet then don't use it but that's another topic altogether. As brother @Lisias said and I quote "I don't need to worry about EULA terms". 

[Triop]

A game DLC is like cars, you buy them but you still need to pay for petrol to move the thing...

 

[Clockwork13]

slightly unrelated but I just designed KSP's 1.5 update banner for anyone interested

[AVaughan]

I'll pass.  No loot crates for me.

 

Edit: I really don't think they will ever add loot crates to KSP.  I can't see loot crates helping Squad/TT sell new copies of KSP, and unless they contained something like random planets to add to games, I can't see people buying loot crates.  So I don't see Squad and TT spending time and money to develop them.

Edited April 29, 2018 by AVaughan

[Superfluous J]

4 hours ago, Triop said:

In the end it's all about making money, taking all the fun out of it.

A good example of this is Star Wars.

 

Yeah those older Star Wars movies they made for free were the best ones.

[Triop]

1 minute ago, 5thHorseman said:

Yeah those older Star Wars movies they made for free were the best ones.

No, they where made by a man with a vision who risked his whole career to give us Star Wars.

He believed in this movie, he didn't know it would grow big and make much money.