Micro-challenges for all! (Continuation of Newbie Central.)

[Kerbalstar]

2 minutes ago, adamgerd said:

Oh, I thought that was also a challenge

No. See the rule change post and OP.

[Kerbalstar]

The challenge is now closed!

Thank you to everyone who participated! Here is your medal:

 

 

Credit to the wonderful medal goes to @doggonemess!

Minmus Base Challenge:

 

The next challenge, requested so many times by @The Minmus Derp , is to construct a single or multiple launch Minmus base which must have: Ore  drilling and storage, comms, room for 4 Kerbals, and some sort of entertainment(i.e., a fun craft like the one on my base above, on the right of the picture, or some sort of interesting terrain nearby)

Edited September 26, 2018 by kerbalstar
Changing error in wording.

[vyznev]

1 hour ago, kerbalstar said:

The next challenge, requested so many times by @The Minmus Derp , is to construct a single or multiple launch Minmus base which must have: Ore  drilling and storage, comms, room for 4 Kerbals, and some sort of entertainment(i.e., a fun craft like the one on my base above, in the middle of the picture, or some sort of interesting terrain nearby)

All I see in the middle of your screenshot is a Kerbal on EVA and a bunch of rocket engines scattered on the ground (which, admittedly, do give the place a rather nice and stylish ambiance ). Which of those is the entertainment?

That said, I do already have an idea for "something fun" to build. Now I just need to decide how to best get it to Minmus. I could go either the semi-realistic way (with in-orbit assembly and possibly multiple launches) or the Kerbal way (a single ridiculously overpowered launcher with a blatant disregard for aerodynamics). Both have their up and down sides. Hmm...

[Kerbalstar]

9 hours ago, vyznev said:

All I see in the middle of your screenshot is a Kerbal on EVA and a bunch of rocket engines scattered on the ground (which, admittedly, do give the place a rather nice and stylish ambiance ). Which of those is the entertainment?

That said, I do already have an idea for "something fun" to build. Now I just need to decide how to best get it to Minmus. I could go either the semi-realistic way (with in-orbit assembly and possibly multiple launches) or the Kerbal way (a single ridiculously overpowered launcher with a blatant disregard for aerodynamics). Both have their up and down sides. Hmm...

Oh right, I forgot, the Kerbal was supposed to be in the thing on top of module on the right, which is an RCS tank with thrusters and a command chair attached, but it didn't unlock for some reason(bug.).

I look forward to seeing your entry, especially your something fun to build!

[vyznev]

23 hours ago, kerbalstar said:

I look forward to seeing your entry, especially your something fun to build!

Well, here's a sneak preview... 

[hoioh]

20 minutes ago, vyznev said:

Well, here's a sneak preview... 

Ha! I was in the process of launching a ferris wheel last night as well, but I kept failing and went to bed. Maybe again tomorrow

[TheFlyingKerman]

On 9/18/2018 at 8:39 PM, AeroGav said:

OK,  I'll try setting this as a micro challenge as I don't know if there will be enough entrants to justify a full thread :-)

Challenge Suggestion -  Build a Liquid Fuel only  SSTO, attempt to pilot other people's entries!    

IMO the LF only requirement is restrictive, because the NERV is the only LF engine that works in vacuum. A low tech challenge is more interesting.

[AeroGav]

13 hours ago, TheFlyingKerman said:

IMO the LF only requirement is restrictive, because the NERV is the only LF engine that works in vacuum. A low tech challenge is more interesting.

My reasons are I want to raise awareness of the possibility of building a craft this way.   When you look on KerbalX,  every SSTO out there is a RAPIER ship , practically all of them only have sufficient flying qualities to get to mach 4 or so at altitude then at that point they fly as a rocket , with TWR well over 1.           Using NERVs as your only rocket engine means TWR well below unity.  which means your craft needs to be able to fly like an airplane in the upper atmosphere, actually make lift with its wings, and have more lift than drag.   If you can pull this off you get a useful interplanetary SSTO.

There have been loads of low tech SSTO challenges but start another one by all means.   Every career mode game becomes like this anyway...  but the trouble is these low tech SSTOs aren't actually all that useful once tech in the Tier 8 node is available. 

Please keep the two challenges separate.  Another caveman SSTO challenge will not develop the skillsets (aerodynamics in the upper atmosphere) i am wanting to encourage.

[sturmhauke]

I slapped this SSTO together a while back, as part of an LF-only challenge on Reddit (no monoprop either, which made docking fun.) It wasn't particularly stable, but it got the job done. Note that it has Rapiers but no oxidizer.

Spoiler

Edited September 26, 2018 by sturmhauke
formatting

[Kerbalstar]

4 minutes ago, sturmhauke said:

I slapped this SSTO together a while back, as part of an LF-only challenge on Reddit (no monoprop either, which made docking fun.) It wasn't particularly stable, but it got the job done. Note that it has Rapiers but no oxidizer.

@AeroGav , @TheFlyingKerman, @sturmhauke, can we please keep the discussion on-topic? I don't mind some discussion of challenge suggestions, but this might distract people from the actual challenge. If you want to keep discussing it, please start your own thread or PM each other. I know that I would at least try to participate if this was a challenge! The operative word being try.  I doubt that I would do that successfully. I'm on version 4 of an R.A.P.I.E.R  SSTO, and it still hasn't reached orbit. Also, ask @Lucast0909, I build horrible planes! But now I'm getting off-topic. Sorry.

[hoioh]

Yay! After a bunch of redesign and a little spot of trouble I managed to put my massiv ferris wheel on Minmus!

Video of the process of delivery to be uploaded shortly! Here's a another screentshot in the meanwhile:

Spoiler

 

[Kerbalstar]

Okay, I've created a Discord for discussion: https://discord.gg/KNercYn

Here we can also discuss suggestions like @AeroGav's. To be clear, it's not that I don't want discussion, it's just that people might get confused and think that it's a challenge. That has already happened, even with it clearly saying challenge suggestion. If people are posting what looks like entries, people might get confused. I do like and welcome discussion! On the Discord, we have a separate area so no one should get confused. Thank @Alpha 360 for the original idea of having a Discord!
 

7 minutes ago, hoioh said:

Yay! After a bunch of redesign and a little spot of trouble I managed to put my massiv ferris wheel on Minmus!

Video of the process of delivery to be uploaded shortly! Here's a another screentshot in the meanwhile:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Looks great!

[hoioh]

And here's the video!

 

[sturmhauke]

2 hours ago, kerbalstar said:

@AeroGav , @TheFlyingKerman, @sturmhauke, can we please keep the discussion on-topic?

Sorry.

[Kerbalstar]

2 hours ago, hoioh said:

And here's the video!

 

Oh... My... Goodness! That is beautiful! *clapping* *clapping*

[Daylight4449]

well, im gonna have a hard time competing against that ferris wheel. but i'll try to do something unique for this challenge!

 

[Kerbalstar]

10 minutes ago, Daylight4449 said:

well, im gonna have a hard time competing against that ferris wheel. but i'll try to do something unique for this challenge!

 

Wonderful, @Daylight4449!

[Kerbolitto]

15 hours ago, AeroGav said:

Please keep the two challenges separate.  Another caveman SSTO challenge will not develop the skillsets (aerodynamics in the upper atmosphere) i am wanting to encourage.

Might not be a noob challenge anymore !

I remember flying dozens of times to improve little by little my very first SSTO, during a career, using 3 panthers and 2 or 3 Nervs ! This was painfull

I still have it somewhere, it is a very little spaceplane which puts around 1t. in LKO

Edited September 27, 2018 by Kerbolitto

[AeroGav]

9 hours ago, Kerbolitto said:

Might not be a noob challenge anymore !

I remember flying dozens of times to improve little by little my very first SSTO, during a career, using 3 panthers and 2 or 3 Nervs ! This was painfull

I still have it somewhere, it is a very little spaceplane which puts around 1t. in LKO

People are building submarines for Laythe,  jumping rovers from Gilly to Eve and landing fairground attractions on Minmus  !    I consider all of those things really hard !   I'll include some tips for my challenge though, if it gets picked.   Really I think so long as you can build a stable, moderately efficient airplane you're in with a shout.Ps.  Did yours  look anything like this ?

Spoiler

https://kerbalx.com/AeroGav/Firefox-I

 

 

[sturmhauke]

My personal challenge is getting any of these done in a week. Even the relatively simple ones end up taking more time than I tend to have available. It doesn't help that I'm a perfectionist - I'll spend time agonizing over elevon placement to the nearest centimeter, even though I'm the only one who will notice.

[Kerbalstar]

1 hour ago, sturmhauke said:

My personal challenge is getting any of these done in a week. Even the relatively simple ones end up taking more time than I tend to have available. It doesn't help that I'm a perfectionist - I'll spend time agonizing over elevon placement to the nearest centimeter, even though I'm the only one who will notice.

Here’s a tip: Don’t be a perfectionist, and ditch the real life!  

[TheFlyingKerman]

 

On 9/27/2018 at 2:46 AM, AeroGav said:

practically all of them only have sufficient flying qualities to get to mach 4 or so at altitude then at that point they fly as a rocket , with TWR well over 1.           Using NERVs as your only rocket engine means TWR well below unity.  which means your craft needs to be able to fly like an airplane in the upper atmosphere, actually make lift with its wings, and have more lift than drag.   If you can pull this off you get a useful interplanetary SSTO.

I don't understand your objection about going into space like a rocket and how using LF only have anything to do with that.

Spoiler

I just quickly put this together. It uses LF only and has TWR of about 0.5 with the Nerv only.

It goes to LKO with no part dropped. You call this SSTO, right?

It is even fully reusable.

 

I don't think that SSTO challenge is suitable here.

Edited September 28, 2018 by TheFlyingKerman

[Kerbolitto]

16 hours ago, AeroGav said:

People are building submarines for Laythe,  jumping rovers from Gilly to Eve and landing fairground attractions on Minmus  !    I consider all of those things really hard !   I'll include some tips for my challenge though, if it gets picked.   Really I think so long as you can build a stable, moderately efficient airplane you're in with a shout.Ps.  Did yours  look anything like this ?

I don't know .. SSTO are very special and a lot of time is needed before finalizing a usefull & reliable design. There's just a lot more mechanics going on compared to a rocket, a submarine or a rover. But that's just my opinion, as I learned from myself to build this type of craft, which took my hundreds of hours.

More like this, this is not the final version as this one still has Mk0 droptanks but you get the idea :p

[AeroGav]

13 hours ago, TheFlyingKerman said:

don't understand your objection about going into space like a rocket and how using LF only have anything to do with that.

I would not disqualify that nerv /rapier rocket of yours.. it should be allowed for its ingenuity.  I was arguing against the person who wanted to make it a caveman ssto challenge instead,  which would specifically ban the use of NERVs or advanced jet engines. Not that there's anything wrong with caveman ssto challenges but it should be a different challenge altogether.

 

My challenge suggestion is liquid fuel to orbit, by whatever means.    Going the airplane route,  on a trimotor design you can either build a zoomer,  with 2 jets and 1 nerv,  get into a steep climb at 1000 m/s plus then hope to buy yourself sufficient time to accelerate to orbital velocity before falling back into the atmosphere,  or a "cruiser" like my example "Sparrow" design with 1 jet and 2 nervs,  that does 1000 m/s in horizontal flight,  then lights the nukes and hopes to be able to continue accelerating on the power of 2 nervs while making sufficient lift to support itself with its wings.Taking the zoomer philosophy to its logical conclusion you end up with the craft you make - and it is perfectly within the rules of that challenge - but i cannot offer any advice on that craft type as i have never built or flown one.    Taking the "cruiser" approach to its logical conclusion - 

Spoiler

This thing took Val to the surface of the Mun and back, so its not useless.

https://kerbalx.com/AeroGav/Stretch-Ray

 

 

[AeroGav]

7 hours ago, Kerbolitto said:

I don't know .. SSTO are very special and a lot of time is needed before finalizing a usefull & reliable design. There's just a lot more mechanics going on compared to a rocket, a submarine or a rover. But that's just my opinion, as I learned from myself to build this type of craft, which took my hundreds of hours.

Each to their own..   I can build a basic small crew SSTO in half an hour,  most of the time is lost on stillborn designs that never leave the hangar.   I can't get CoM sufficiently far forward, the whole concept is beyond saving - start over.  If I get as far as the "Launch Vessel" button I can tell whether this will make orbit or needs more tweaks before we've reached 100m.     I take off,  turn off SAS and see if the nose starts veering off prograde.   If it pitches up more than a couple of degrees, it's gonna be a pig even if i can fight it to orbit, back to the hangar for you.     Pass that test?   Throttle up and down, does the nose rise and fall with thrust - then i didn't pay enough attention to RCS build aid,  back to the hangar !  Finally, i yank full back stick and try to stall it.

My first orbit in this game was with an SSTO.   I had been trying to build rockets too, but it took a few more days before i could make one that didn't flip.          Whilst i do have successes,   there's usually a dozen reverts while i work out how to gravity turn each design.   As for rovers...  let's just say if i had to get to the tracking centre, i'd build an airplane, take off and fly to it, then land next to it.  I've never built a rover that got more than halfway across the space centre without flipping and blowing up.  Wheel physics in this game are just horrific.. or i just don't understand cars.

 

BTW, let's not antagonize @kerbalstar any further and keep discussion about potential challenges to the discord channel :-)

https://discordapp.com/channels/493195034154500098/494608257588002847