[1.12.5] Restock - Revamping KSP's art (August 28)

[linuxgurugamer]

3 hours ago, Nertea said:

got a PR ready to go, was just waiting to make sure nothing blew up for a span of hours before submitting

Let me know when you submit it

[FleshJeb]

10 minutes ago, Lupi said:

It's designed to be purely visual in every case given. Why not actually do the diligence and let them know your concern before assuming it's true?

I assume that if I'm wrong, I will be corrected in due time by someone qualified to answer.

[HebaruSan]

11 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Let me know when you submit it

It's over here. https://github.com/KSP-CKAN/NetKAN/pull/7050

Currently waiting on the question of, ironically enough, linking to this very thread.

[DMagic]

30 minutes ago, FleshJeb said:

These two statements are contradictory:

I assume volumes and surface areas may be significantly different.

Just in case anyone was thinking of allowing these parts to count as Stock for challenges, physically they're only Restock-ISH.

The drag cubes for almost all parts are generated based on the Restock part meshes, and so will end up slightly different from stock parts. Some parts in Restock are hollow that weren't in stock (some of the reaction wheels, probe cores, batteries, etc...) and were adjusted to attempt to match the drag cubes. Other parts, like engines, end up with different drag cubes because their mesh differs so much. A few parts, parachutes for instance, have their drag cubes copied exactly from stock, but there are few of those.

Many parts use procedural drag cubes, so it wouldn't be possible to maintain the stock drag cubes exactly, anyway.

What counts as "valid" for stock challenges is, obviously, up to each person to decide.

Edited March 6, 2019 by DMagic

[Nertea]

29 minutes ago, FleshJeb said:

These two statements are contradictory:

I assume volumes and surface areas may be significantly different.

Just in case anyone was thinking of allowing these parts to count as Stock for challenges, physically they're only Restock-ISH.

No, the first statement is a goal, the second is the reality. 

For the purposes of the mod, we have copied over the drag cubes (creating identical performance) where specific gameplay-affecting issues were noted in testing. 

Weird to come in here for the sole purpose of declaring the mod invalid for challenges though. 

39 minutes ago, Faraway_Hotel said:

As far as I understand from poking around in save files, it's to do with different values for "activejettisonName" in the engine's "ModuleJettison", e.g. an existing Spark engine (as in the screenshot) has "activejettisonName = Shroud" while a newly-launched one has "activejettisonName = ShroudSparkBasic" (and no shroud).

Wow that is some garbage. Save an invariant part property in the save file . 

[NovaSilisko]

I support this. ✌

Edited March 6, 2019 by NovaSilisko

[Tyko]

24 minutes ago, DMagic said:

51 minutes ago, FleshJeb said:

These two statements are contradictory:

I assume volumes and surface areas may be significantly different.

Just in case anyone was thinking of allowing these parts to count as Stock for challenges, physically they're only Restock-ISH.

The drag cubes for almost all parts are generated based on the Restock part meshes, and so will end up slightly different from stock parts. Some parts in Restock are hollow that weren't in stock (some of the reaction wheels, probe cores, batteries, etc...) and were adjusted to attempt to match the drag cubes. Other parts, like engines, end up with different drag cubes because their mesh differs so much. A few parts, parachutes for instance, have their drag cubes copied exactly from stock, but there are few of those.

Many parts use procedural drag cubes, so it wouldn't be possible to maintain the stock drag cubes exactly, anyway.

What counts as "valid" for stock challenges is, obviously, up to each person to decide.

@FleshJeb I'd just want to add that Squad has made many changes over the various KSP releases that impact drag, from adding variants to just general bug stomping.

So, you're correct that ReStock could change drag values. That said, if you're concerned about a challenge being totally "fair" with respect to drag the only way would be to specify which build of KSP the player must be on to avoid any variations in Stock.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Tyko

[DeltaDizzy]

Anyone feel like this thread needs more screenshots? I certainly do.

[Tybot]

Just submitted a bug report about the Illuminators lights always being on while the light textures always being off:
https://github.com/PorktoberRevolution/ReStocked/issues/522

But would like to confirm if anyone else sees the same issues in case it's just me.

[Lupi]

6 minutes ago, Tybot said:

Just submitted a bug report about the Illuminators lights always being on while the light textures always being off:
https://github.com/PorktoberRevolution/ReStocked/issues/522

But would like to confirm if anyone else sees the same issues in case it's just me.

I never had that issue while I was testing! I put lights on everything, so I'd hopefully have caught it.

[JadeOfMaar]

I had that problem with the spotlights, actually.

[FleshJeb]

35 minutes ago, Nertea said:

Weird to come in here for the sole purpose of declaring the mod invalid for challenges though. 

Thank you and @DMagic for the answers on the aerodynamics, and for doing your best to maintain fidelity.

My statement on challenges was just an afterthought to my wondering if I could justify getting this mod for myself. Physics IS my gameplay. If it says "Stock" in the title, I personally would want it accurate to within two significant figures. Yes, I have a strange idea of fun.

If you have time to answer: Are there significant volume and surface area differences between Stock and Restock parts? Things that would affect buoyancy and thermal radiation performance?

32 minutes ago, Tyko said:

That said, if you're concerned about a challenge being totally "fair" with respect to drag [all physical properties] the only way would be to specify which build of KSP the player must be on to avoid any variations in Stock.

Which is the why we have the social convention of specifying which version we're in when doing challenges. My concern is not with fairness, but if I can learn anything involving Stock craft engineering by analyzing/disassembling someone's Restock entry. It sounds like the aero differences alone put it solidly in the "modded" category for the moment.

However, I expect this mod to be VERY popular (approaching KER levels of popular), and that the community will come to accept it as "the new stock".

All that poophole-retentiveness aside, Restock is a glorious middle finger to years of craptacular #lolSquad "effort". The expertise and quality represented by this mod is the purest, finest, most-unadulterated trolling of Squad I can think of. Congrats to the dev team.

[DMagic]

8 minutes ago, FleshJeb said:

If you have time to answer: Are there significant volume and surface area differences between Stock and Restock parts? Things that would affect buoyancy and thermal radiation performance?

In general the volume should be pretty similar for stock and Restock parts, if only because the colliders are the same. I have no idea about the effects on buoyancy and radiation, though. 

[Rocketology]

Truly, Team Restock, thank you guys so much for creating this great mod and for stopping into my stream today to answer viewer questions! You guys ROCK!

[linuxgurugamer]

14 hours ago, Nertea said:

Check the entry on the Restock Wiki for more information about this. 

I did, there is no entry.  In fact, the Wiki is almost totally bare, just some placeholders.

[MuchozolF]

7 hours ago, JayJohnson said:

Is anyone else having trouble with deployable parts? The 1x6 and 2x3 solar panels in particular need to be retracted and extended again to point in the proper direction, only works with the retractable ones obviously:

[snip]

1

 

2 hours ago, Tonka Crash said:

Besides the solar panel issue pointed out above, I'm seeing engine shrouds still attached to vessels already in flight from a career save. Terrier and Sparks in this photo, but the Skiffs were okay. None of these were whitelisted.

[snip]

 

 

Until one of the modders comes with a more elegant solution and better-written instructions, you've got me.

1. I found that the retractable panels can be fixed by retracting and deploying again (good old computer stuff trick). I figured, if I force the non-retractable panels to retract, I'll be able to fix them.

I went to the quicksave.sfs, changed  "EXTENDED" to "RETRACTED" and deployed them again, in the game. So that's dealt with, even though it does take some effort to fix every panel, on every vessel, manually.

 

2. As for the shrouds, you need to know two things: a) KSP can fix minor errors in the save files, b) shrouds freak out because they have wrong names in the save file (Restock added more variants, calling for more names). 

To apply this knowledge to the dreaded shroud bug, you go into quicksave.sfs, find your craft, find the engines, and delete "ModuleJettison". When you load your quicksave, KSP will add the module back, with an appropriate shroud name, resolving the issue. You could just change the shroud name to the correct one, you would need to know what is the correct one first though. 

Example ModuleJettison, delete all the stuff marked with the red "circle".

On second thoughts, it's probably enough to delete just the "activejettisonName = xxxx " line, I didn't check if it works though.

Edited March 6, 2019 by MuchozolF

[Raptor9]

I honestly have never run out of daily "Likes" on this forum until I read through this particular thread today.  

Edited March 6, 2019 by Raptor9

[Nertea]

5 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

I did, there is no entry.  In fact, the Wiki is almost totally bare, just some placeholders.

Sorry, still under construction. There is a blurb in the restock readme.txt (https://github.com/PorktoberRevolution/ReStocked/blob/master/Distribution/Restock/readme.txt). Will circle back when there is something better (look there's even an issue! https://github.com/PorktoberRevolution/ReStocked/issues/500)

Should have a fix for shroud and solar panel problems released tonight guys, thanks for your patience. 

[Tyko]

@linuxgurugamer Here's the text from the readme

	ASSET BLACKLIST
	===============
	Restock contains a plugin that stops replaced stock assets from loading, reducing the memory footprint of the mod. The list of blacklisted assets can be found in GameData/ReStock/Restock.restockblacklist.
	If your mod requires a stock texture, you can create a xxx.restockwhitelist file anywhere in your GameData distribution. Each line in this file can target an asset or a folder, for example adding this line to the whitelist file:
	Squad/Parts/Aero/HeatShield/HeatShield3.mu
	will cause the size 3 heatshield .mu file to be whitelisted and loaded into the game. You can also whitelist entire folders as follows:
	Squad/Parts/Aero/HeatShield/

[DMagic]

23 minutes ago, MuchozolF said:

On second thoughts, it's probably enough to delete just the "activejettisonName = xxxx " line, I didn't check if it works though.

I would give that a try, it's much simpler and safer than deleting an entire module. That can cause some hiccups when KSP is trying to a load a part and can't find a part module in the save file.

[linuxgurugamer]

Looks simple enough.  I should be b.c able to get all of my mods done pretty fast.

[cineboxandrew]

1 hour ago, MuchozolF said:

Until one of the modders comes with a more elegant solution and better-written instructions, you've got me.

1. I found that the retractable panels can be fixed by retracting and deploying again (good old computer stuff trick). I figured, if I force the non-retractable panels to retract, I'll be able to fix them.

I went to the quicksave.sfs, changed  "EXTENDED" to "RETRACTED" and deployed them again, in the game. So that's dealt with, even though it does take some effort to fix every panel, on every vessel, manually.

I recommend not doing this. A fix is already staged for 0.1.1 that fixes the solar panel pivot orientations, but if you’ve done this or deployed any other panels while Restock is enabled, you’ll just need to do it again once 0.1.1 is installed since they’ll be saved in the 0.1.0 orientations instead of the stock/0.1.1 orientations. 

I made a small MM patch that makes the unshrouded panels retractable that you can install temporarily, which might make this process a bit easier once the update is ready

Edited March 7, 2019 by cineboxandrew
0.1.1 is the version

[blowfish]

1 hour ago, linuxgurugamer said:

I did, there is no entry.  In fact, the Wiki is almost totally bare, just some placeholders.

Adding a detailed wiki page on it is on my todo list, feel free to reach out to me directly with any questions for now though.  The blacklist is 100% my code.

[Puggonaut]

This is amazing actually it's EPIC , thanks so much to all for making this happen .

32 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Looks simple enough.  I should be b.c able to get all of my mods done pretty fast.

You always get your mods done fast , it boggles my brain how you can look after so many , i'm in awe of your skillset . thanks for continuing to serve the KSP community .

[d4harp]

15 hours ago, Nertea said:

Some of these parts overlap in purpose if the Making History expansion is installed and will not show up if this is the case.

I feel like this logic is backwards. If the restock+ textures/models already exist, why revert back to the making history version?

In a making history install, the vanilla styled 1.8m decoupler stands out like a sore thumb amongst all the restock decouplers.