Kerbal Space Program Breaks Ground with a New DLC!

[JPLRepo]

12 hours ago, Yakuzi said:

 @UomoCapra, I take it the new planetary surface features have colliders, does the current terrain scatter also get colliders? And are planet textures and geography updated, or will it still be the same bland terrain we have now?

Yes the new surface features have colliders. The current scatter terrain is unchanged.
You have to wait and see on the third question what the future brings.

21 hours ago, basic.syntax said:

Many players have assumed Squad will use the existing scatter system, because the wording of the OP says the unique surface features will be "scattered across" - but that is not necessarily the case. I have a good feeling the objects will be placed by hand. The robotic sample arm in the picture is shown hovering over the surface of a crystal object with nothing else around; I think we'd see many crystals in the background, if the scatter system was being used. I am hopeful these objects will have collision models, so that the robotic sample arm can know how close it is to a surface. That seems to be implied by the screenshot. The scatter objects don't have collision models, so all the sample arm would know is its distance to the origin or placement point of the scatter item.

 

It does not use the existing scatter system. It's a whole new system. They have collisions, but are not added to existing saves because of that (new saves).

19 hours ago, Bubbadevlin said:

Super hyped for the robotics parts! They look like they will open up some great possibilities in terms of building. 

I don't know how the new parts will interact with auto strut, but I really hope that if they interact how i would imagine they do based on current craft movement stuff (ie it will prevent movement if the strut runs between the two parts of movement) Squad changes the current wheels/landing legs. Right now they are for some reason forcefully auto strutted to the heaviest part. If this stays and the robotics parts interact with auto struts in the usual way, it would prevent the building of articulated landing legs and wheels, something that would be very disappointing to me (and I would imagine others)

Autostruts are dealt with, you have no reason to fear.

[Ol’ Musky Boi]

2 hours ago, pandaman said:

Looking forward to this update .

The idea that the new surface features be included in the base game is a good one, but, depending on how common they are, it may make sense to have fewer in the base game than the DLC.  So there is a larger variety of things to find, but maybe not as many and not as big a selection as in the DLC.

Ideally for me the planets themselves will receive a bit of remodelling though. Kerbin isn't too bad, but the rest would benefit from adding 'big stuff' like dried up riverbeds etc and just enhancing the topography that is already there to make it a little more spectacular.  This could create havoc with existing saves though, like if a large base suddenly finds itself halfway up a cliff, so adequate warnings would need to be given if that ever happens.

Yeah, the textures on some of the planets aren't great, when you get up close it just looks like a giant pixel and it kinda ruins the immersion. I'd love to see different sized craters as you got closer to the surface of the airless moons, i.e smaller kerbal sized ones on the surface as well as the big ones from orbit. And maybe some comets as well, or even some interstellar objects!

[SG Aero]

I am still of the opinion that all planet and surface features should be stock, with robotics and new parts being dlc. It's coming way too close to adding essential features to paid dlc if you starting changing the planets and require people to pay to do that. Also, this DLC really seems like it shouldn't be released as a paid dlc. This really seems like a massive overhaul of several aspects of the game, which has me concerned that you can only get it through dlc.

[Xavven]

30 minutes ago, Phoenix84 said:

Am I the only one that starts a new save for each new major version?

Maybe I'm used to the early access days.

I start a new save if the changes are large enough that it would affect career progression. For example, I started a new save when I bought Making History because the 1.875m rocket parts make a huge difference in your early to mid game builds, and the wolfhound and 5m parts affect your late game builds.

I did not start a new save for the delta-v feature patch, or the orbital info feature patch, because it wouldn't have changed any outcomes (it's just way more convenient).

[Ol’ Musky Boi]

1 minute ago, ShadowGoat said:

This really seems like a massive overhaul of several aspects of the game, which has me concerned that you can only get it through dlc.

That's sort of the point of a DLC though. If the DLC didn't promise any cool features that added significantly to gameplay then no one would buy it, I'd much rather that Squad sold legitimately good DLC rather than just a hundred different EVA suits or something.

[Phoenix84]

26 minutes ago, Ol’ Musky Boi said:

That's sort of the point of a DLC though. If the DLC didn't promise any cool features that added significantly to gameplay then no one would buy it, I'd much rather that Squad sold legitimately good DLC rather than just a hundred different EVA suits or something.

I agree with this.

DLC has two meanings, one is more like parts/cosmetics. The other is more akin to the traditional "expansion pack" style.

CIties: Skylines also does the same thing, they add new features and gameplay with expansion packs/DLC. Same for The Sims (I know, evil EA, but still), which has "stuff packs" and "content/gameplay packs." Heck, even the original Starcraft did it.

KSP is kind of doing a mix, last DLC was more of a "stuff pack (parts)" with a little gameplay (missions), while this DLC is more gameplay oriented with parts to support that.

The "base" game is done, has been for some time. It may not be done for everyone, but it is "done" for Squad. It met the internal and external goals it was designed to accomplish. Everything after this is extra and may or may not be free. Now they are wanting to expand the game past their original vision. This may include gameplay changes. It's not like this is a multiplayer game, they have a lot more options available to them for expanding the game.

No, I don't really like DLC, but I do understand the business reasons behind it. If it means one of my favorite games continues to receive support years after release, then I'm for it.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Phoenix84

[razark]

58 minutes ago, Phoenix84 said:

Am I the only one that starts a new save for each new major version?

No.  I almost always¹ do.  I recently started playing after a break, and now I think I'll just wait until the end of the month.

 

¹Twice, I think I haven't.  And I started playing in 0.15, and I restart with minor versions, too.  Or a change in my mod mix.

[RealKerbal3x]

50 minutes ago, JPLRepo said:

It does not use the existing scatter system. It's a whole new system. They have collisions, but are not added to existing saves because of that (new saves).

Will there be a way to enable the new scatters on existing saves? I really want to mess around with those, but I’ve got a well-established save-game and I don’t really want to start a new one.

[SG Aero]

There's a difference between adding gameplay mechanics and completely changing existing ones. The latter is closer to this expansion in many way. If it was new mechanics, it wouldn't be so bad to have that in dlc. But the change in terrain, kerbal inventory, etc just seems like a bit too much.

[MechBFP]

1 hour ago, JPLRepo said:

You have to wait and see on the third question what the future brings.

*assumptioning  intensifies*

Hopefully we don’t have to wait too long.

[Chel]

9 hours ago, MechBFP said:

likely a rather large chunk of their user base pie. 

A lot of the playerbase was lost due to the year long content gap however

1 hour ago, Ol’ Musky Boi said:

That's sort of the point of a DLC though. If the DLC didn't promise any cool features that added significantly to gameplay then no one would buy it, I'd much rather that Squad sold legitimately good DLC rather than just a hundred different EVA suits or something.

However it shouldn't be that new features and parts are only for the DLC, only some new parts. MH did this well as you could pay money for 1950-70s themed parts, but this one just seems to be 'let's lock this stuff behind a paywall'

I'm worried about the direction that SQUAD is taking with this

[MechBFP]

1 minute ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

A lot of the playerbase was lost due to the year long content gap however

Could be. Only Squad knows what percentage of that pie is actually consumable. Then again advertisements for the DLC might also attract net new players as well, which I think is actually one of the main objectives of this DLC. The more toys there are in the sandbox, the more likely someone is going to see something interesting and wade in. 

[Chel]

1 minute ago, MechBFP said:

he more toys there are in the sandbox, the more likely someone is going to see something interesting and wade in. 

true

[Mr. Me]

2 hours ago, JPLRepo said:

They have collisions, but are not added to existing saves because of that (new saves).

Is there some way we can get around having to make a new save to see the surface features? I finally have a reason to start a career mode game because of this DLC, but as for sandbox I'd rather keep playing my save with years of progress and bland planets than start from scratch with beautiful planets.

 

To be honest, I'm kinda upset I'll be getting it for free because I'd love to have more money going to make stuff like this. Keep up the good work, there's a reason I've been playing for 7+ years. Can't wait to see what one we'll be getting next.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Mr. Me

[Lord Aurelius]

2 hours ago, Phoenix84 said:

I use "Snacks" mod as I like to have a little Kerbal management in missions, but don't want to deal with the entire life support system/cycle. Something like Snacks integrated into the base game would be fantastic. Something simple, but can easily be expanded/replaced by something more detailed by modders for those that want a more full system.

As for storyline, I kind of think of contracts like that. Something more expansive would also be nice, maybe hooking into contracts to give the player a little freedom in the storyline. Like "Alright, we need to get a probe to the Mun, you figure out the best way", and the path to get there can be through various contracts to build up to the big "Mun probe contract."

Something relatively simple like Snacks is what I've had in mind for a stock life support template. Nothing overly complicated, but something to help better convey the challenge of long-duration manned (Kerbaled?) missions and to provide a check to the additional abilities Kerbals have over probes.

I see contracts as a component of more "tycoon" style gameplay. My thoughts are that there should actually be two separate "career" and "campaign" game modes. Career mode would be more of the tycoon style gameplay and could fundamentally be similar to what we have now. There could still be some optional story contracts here as well (similar to what Novasilisko talked about years ago with regards to a storyline for the easter eggs eventually leading to a hidden planet and also the anomaly explorer contracts) for players to pursue and make use of the full tech tree to achieve them and to provide a way to "win" the game.

A campaign mode on the other hand could be a series of highly scripted scenario story missions (including cutscenes similar to what we've seen for the launch trailers) that could serve as a solid place for new players to jump into the game and could also function effectively as a tutorial to prepare players for the more open-ended game modes. Early missions would pretty much tell you what to do, but later missions would be a lot more open ended and give the player a lot of creative freedom in how they accomplish the mission. Difficult optional objectives (that can change the mission progression similar to StarFox 64 or other games with branching paths) could provide extra challenge for veteran players and some replayability.

[basic.syntax]

Squad is erring on the side of caution with regard to the new surface features: no player bases are going to be destroyed by the sudden appearance of a crystal formation.  While clever scripting when loading a saved game state could move a surface feature so that it doesn't intersect with player objects, doing that would require more testing time to get right. For example, how far should it be moved? That's a question that doesn't need an answer, if the whole idea of writing some kind of script is left out.

Squad probably has enough work on their plates, making sure their new robotics and rotator components states are saved in persistence and restored reliably. 

[Red Iron Crown]

1 hour ago, Mr. Me said:

To be honest, I'm kinda upset I'll be getting it for free because I'd love to have more money going to make stuff like this. 

I feel the same, and I'm at a point in my life where $15 is not that big a deal. So I'll gift it to a friend or two, that way I get to vote with my wallet and someone for whom $15 is a bigger deal gets to play it. 

[Starboost88]

We're gonna need some new Krackensbane, or the robotic parts will have seizures and/or become playthings of the Kracken.

Still, this will be great, I think the stock propeller creators will have a field day when this releases.

[Lord Aurelius]

1 minute ago, Starboost88 said:

Still, this will be great, I think the stock propeller creators will have a field day when this releases.

My electric planes for Eve will finally be a reality without needing mods. Combined with the robotics to have them fold up in fairings, it will open up all kinds of awesome new mission profiles.

[Starboost88]

1 minute ago, Lord Aurelius said:

My electric planes for Eve will finally be a reality without needing mods. Combined with the robotics to have them fold up in fairings, it will open up all kinds of awesome new mission profiles.

Yes, this opens so many doors.

[MechBFP]

3 minutes ago, Lord Aurelius said:

My electric planes for Eve will finally be a reality without needing mods. Combined with the robotics to have them fold up in fairings, it will open up all kinds of awesome new mission profiles.

Rovers with giant wheel bases can now actually fit in less than a 3.75 or 5m, fairing lol. 

[Superfluous J]

36 minutes ago, Starboost88 said:

Yes, this opens so many doors.

Literally

I must say I'm more than excited for all the little things like probes all tucked in when in fairings, then unfurling once in space.

[Starboost88]

36 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

Rovers with giant wheel bases can now actually fit in less than a 3.75 or 5m, fairing lol. 

So true.

1 minute ago, 5thHorseman said:

Literally

I must say I'm more than excited for all the little things like probes all tucked in when in fairings, then unfurling once in space.

Voyager II inbound.

[Asterane]

I am really excited about this DLC.  Some people here seem to underestimate how much effort is necessary to create a comprehensive, integrated, and physically accurate robotics system. I'm amazed to see such a complicated and impressive new feature being released alongside a cargo system, surface features, and a whole new way to get science (perhaps along with other as-yet-unknown features). I'm confident that these new features will come with the same intuitive and easy use we've seen from features like delta-v readouts and the maneuver node system. Great job, Squad!

In fact, when I saw the announcement for this expansion, I was almost surprised at how inexpensive it is. I've only played for a few hundred hours, but I'm more than happy to pay $15 for this massive update to an incredible game.

I also love the new suit. It's an awesome look for the Kerbals.

[Angelo Kerman]

4 hours ago, Phoenix84 said:

I use "Snacks" mod as I like to have a little Kerbal management in missions, but don't want to deal with the entire life support system/cycle. Something like Snacks integrated into the base game would be fantastic. Something simple, but can easily be expanded/replaced by something more detailed by modders for those that want a more full system.

As for storyline, I kind of think of contracts like that. Something more expansive would also be nice, maybe hooking into contracts to give the player a little freedom in the storyline. Like "Alright, we need to get a probe to the Mun, you figure out the best way", and the path to get there can be through various contracts to build up to the big "Mun probe contract."

Am I the only one that starts a new save for each new major version?

Maybe I'm used to the early access days.

Funny thing is, when I rebuilt Snacks to include the science, funds, reputation, and fainting penalty system, I designed it in a way that I thought @SQUAD might, and on the same design lines as KerbNet: be in the way, but not so much that it bricks your mission or game. I even set it up to potentially accept additional penalty items and fire its own events. If Squad does create their own life support DLC (TBH I'd love to make it, but I seriously doubt that'll happen), I hope they'd have similar considerations.