Pthigrivi Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) I don't know I just find the conversation silly. It just needs to look good enough. Minecraft and Cities Skylines both look like hot garbage. Factorio is barely better. Stardew Valley sold 20m copies with one dude doing pixel art. All of those games work and are fun because they have good mechanics. Photorealistic graphics are honestly a waste of resources. Its superficial and superfluous. You just need a decently consistent look. Edited January 31, 2023 by Pthigrivi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolarAdmiral Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said: Photorealistic graphics are honestly a waste of resources. Its superficial and superfluous. Games pitched as photorealistic are also the first ones to age poorly. Windwaker is still talked about as looking great. Unreal was once held up as the cutting edge in graphics. Just as a fun aside, take a glance through the top 100 most played games on steam right now. Figure a percentage of how many look better/worse than KSP2. https://steamdb.info/charts/ I count maybe 10 out of 100 that are better than KSP2. Edited January 31, 2023 by SolarAdmiral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aziz Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 18 minutes ago, SolarAdmiral said: Just as a fun aside, take a glance through the top 100 most played games on steam right now. Figure a percentage of how many look better/worse than KSP2. https://steamdb.info/charts/ I count maybe 10 out of 100 that are better than KSP2. More than half of the titles in top 50 are multiplayer games. Some still somewhat supported to this day. MP games live long, SP games are played few times and dropped, unless they're sandboxes. Not very accurate comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLTay Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Anybody else going to buy day one, fiddle with the game a bit, and shelve it until science/progression is released? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superluminal Gremlin Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 nah im going to go explore the system see whats changed and just generally revel in the nicer ground graphics compared to ksp 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSACheese Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 minute ago, TLTay said: Anybody else going to buy day one, fiddle with the game a bit, and shelve it until science/progression is released? Just curious. I'm buying day one, but I have been saving all of my KSP playing for next month, not to mention I have sent Kerbals to very few places in the system, so I will be sinking quite a bit of time into it, I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolarAdmiral Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, The Aziz said: More than half of the titles in top 50 are multiplayer games. Some still somewhat supported to this day. MP games live long, SP games are played few times and dropped, unless they're sandboxes. Not very accurate comparison. So old graphics don't hurt multiplayer games but do hurt singleplayer ones? Alright, lets go with solely, or mainly single player games only. Or at least games that a significant number of people play even single player. I see, Elden Ring, Stardew Valley, Civ VI, Project Zomboid, Sims 4, Terraria, Path of Exile, 7 Days to Die, Rimworld, HOI 4, Dead Space, Fallout 4, Cities Skylines, Witcher 3, Total War Warhammer 3, Age of Empires 2, Satisfactory, Civ V, Stellaris, EU 4, Farming Sim 22, Factorio, Euro Truck 2, Crusader Kings 3, Cookie Clicker, BeamNG.Drive, Oxygen Not Included, American Truck Sim. Taking out the multiplayer centered games, I think that reduced the percent that look better than KSP2. Oh how will KSP2 compete with the likes of Terraria, Cities Skylines, and Stellaris if it doesn't have the greatest graphics ever seen. Woe is me. KSP2 is doomed because the clouds don't look as good as Avatar 2 the Way of Water. Check out top sellers, https://store.steampowered.com/charts/topselling/US. Funny enough the list is almost the same and still includes a bunch of those same games. Edited January 31, 2023 by SolarAdmiral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missingno200 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, SolarAdmiral said: So old graphics don't hurt multiplayer games but do hurt singleplayer ones? . . . No. That was not their argument. Their argument was "multiplayer games are played for longer than singleplayer games, which are usually played through once or twice and then sat down." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolarAdmiral Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Missingno200 said: . . . No. That was not their argument. Their argument was "multiplayer games are played for longer than singleplayer games, which are usually played through once or twice and then sat down." Except that doesn't really apply to the single player games here. Stardew, Cities Skylines, Civilization, Stellaris, Truck Simulator, Oxygen Not Included, Factorio, Satisfactory, Terraria. These are building games. Games people sink thousands of hours into. Games kind of just like KSP. I'd contend this list makes my argument even stronger. Let me amend it to this, all these super long lived single player games, creative building and sim games not unlike KSP, their simple graphics didn't prevent them from staying in the top 100 most played and top 100 best recent sales on steam even years, nearly a decade for some since their release. Edited January 31, 2023 by SolarAdmiral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pthigrivi Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, SolarAdmiral said: Except that doesn't really apply to the single player games here. Stardew, Cities Skylines, Civilization, Stellaris, Truck Simulator, Oxygen Not Included, Factorio, Satisfactory, Terraria. These are building games. Games people sink thousands of hours into. Games kind of just like KSP. And nobody is sitting around just ogling at the vistas for hours. What keeps your attention are the fundamental dynamics of the game. That's what KSP2 needs to capture and improve upon. Right now the graphics aren't KSP1's problem. The basic foundation of vessel engineering and orbital navigation is phenomenal. It's the other systems like science and progression that need major work. Even if you fill each body with gorgeously detailed scatter and effects if there's nothing to do there then there's nothing to do there. Science will be the first real test. Do the base mechanics around exploration push players to explore further, build new types of vessels, learn to efficiently scan from orbit or land precisely and deploy rovers? Do the experiments themselves provide player feedback like revealing topographical data or unlocking simulation options? Is the tech tree well organized and balanced so players don't get stuck in grind traps? That's the kind of thing that actually matters. Thats what will drive good reviews. Just make KSP2 a good game. That's what all those titles above did. It barely matters what they look like. Edited January 31, 2023 by Pthigrivi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolarAdmiral Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) So we have this argument. You say KSP2's graphics don't look good. That the game will be significantly negatively impacted because its graphics have not lived up to some bar. As a counter argument, I have listed a dozen games, single player ones, ones that fit a similar niche as KSP, building and constructive, ones without wowing fantastic graphics, that none the less are still in the top 100 most played and most purchased games on steam. My argument, graphics don't matter all that much. Good graphics would be nice, but are not critical. On the other hand, I haven't been able to find any games on that list, anywhere in the top 100 or 200, that are single player where a major focus is building, that look better or even as good as KSP2. Maybe Subnautica, maybe Fallout 4 if you wanted to count that as "building". But for both of them, again we arrive at the point that they are small handmade maps, not a game that needs to have entire planets, and several different planets. Do we have any evidence that a game like KSP2 will suffer if it has less than amazing graphics? Because I can find lots of games with much more reserved graphics that were none the less successful, and very successful, in the top 100 on the most used PC game platform. Edited January 31, 2023 by SolarAdmiral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t_v Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said: nobody is sitting around just ogling at the vistas for hours Well… 49 minutes ago, TLTay said: Anybody else going to buy day one, fiddle with the game a bit, and shelve it until science/progression is released? Just curious. I’m probably going to ogle at all the new vistas for many hours, because alongside the much improved (read: less buggy) gameplay, the sights are going to look better than KSP 1 when controlling for performance. I don’t really know why people are going to extremes about graphics, it is true that you don’t necessarily need good graphics to have a good and successful game but good graphics aren’t a negative thing that should be discouraged either. If developer time is being spent on graphics, that is still creating a better experience; saying that gameplay should take absolute priority is like saying “don’t do this good thing at all when you could do this more good thing instead.” Both are valid ways to develop a game. Edited January 31, 2023 by t_v Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missingno200 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Well, that is what Aziz has claimed. Now we await Aziz's either concession, agreement to disagree, or counterargument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shdwlrd Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 4 minutes ago, SolarAdmiral said: Good graphics would be nice, but are not critical. Very true. Even bad graphics can look good if done right. Take Valheim for example, it has some of the worse pixelated textures you will ever see in a modern game. But the lighting and environmental effects are superb and will make you forget about the ugly textures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolarAdmiral Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 53 minutes ago, TLTay said: Anybody else going to buy day one, fiddle with the game a bit, and shelve it until science/progression is released? Just curious. Graphics argument aside. I'm definitely buying day one. And will be looking forward to playing KSP2 all the way right through adding science to multiplayer. I started playing KSP before there was career or science, and although I loved playing career, I've since completely tired of it. I'm too excited looking forward to building an interplanetary resource gathering and transport network to want to go back to KSP1 contracts. Until Science, Resources, Interstellar and Colonies are added, I will content myself building and perfecting my ships so they're all ready to be used, or tweaked, once those new additions come around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarecrow71 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 2 hours ago, TLTay said: Anybody else going to buy day one, fiddle with the game a bit, and shelve it until science/progression is released? Just curious. I'll buy it day one, play the bejeezus out of it, and then play it some more. And then when science is released, I'll keep playing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gargamel Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) Guys (et al)….. This is the hype thread. It’s the one thread where we can come to express our excitement about the upcoming game. The entire rest of the KSP2 sub forum is a cesspool of bickering and complaining. Let’s keep the negativity there please. If you want to argue about why people started playing KSP, take it to the already existing thread that’s in the KSP Discussion sub on that topic. If you want to argue about gaming in general, take it to the lounge. This one thread is about hope, hype, and excitement. Let’s keep it that way. Edited January 31, 2023 by Gargamel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tstein Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, Vl3d said: Really how hard is it to just turn up the graphics to ULTRA for a few screenshots? I don't even want to see a video.. just a few epic images of everything turned up to 11. Because, only they will know. I am excited for KSP for the rest of the game. If we are not excited by something else in it, patience and wait. Edited January 31, 2023 by tstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolarAdmiral Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 8 hours ago, Gargamel said: This one thread is about hope, hype, and excitement. Let’s keep it that way. Agreed. Today is the day, you can bust out the advent calendar you bought on clearance after Christmas and use it to count down the days to KSP2's launch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldForest Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) Edited January 31, 2023 by GoldForest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tstein Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 minute ago, GoldForest said: They had to release it 1 day after my birthday that would be a perfect excuse for me to not go to the office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldForest Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 4 minutes ago, tstein said: They had to release it 1 day after my birthday that would be a perfect excuse for me to not go to the office. That sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domonian Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 hour ago, tstein said: They had to release it 1 day after my birthday that would be a perfect excuse for me to not go to the office. Nothing's stopping you from calling out ; if I didn't have to worry so much about differential equations, I wouldn't bother going to class that day, but alas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnemoe Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 20 hours ago, SolarAdmiral said: This is definitely what's behind this. These farewell ksp1 videos aren't being made because people are sad to see it go and are worried about ksp2. It's because people are excited for ksp2 and are searching for more ksp content. But there's only so much new news about ksp2 to talk about and all the content creators don't have access to ksp2 yet. So, they can make a goodbye ksp1 grand farewell video to get all those views. This, its also a lot unknown about KSP 2 like who engines will we get, especially the high performance ones like metallic hydrogen and pulse nuclear. Also other parts, we saw the 3.75 meter and pretty high crew compartment and the 3.75 meter command module who had expanded mercury feelings. People are arguing about planet 8, yes we saw something in an early video, not interstellar but probably orbiting far out, this was before game became early access to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldForest Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 20 hours ago, SolarAdmiral said: all the content creators don't have access to ksp2 yet. While maybe not all, the big KSP content creators definitely have access or will get access very very soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts