Crime in Space

[XB-70A]

Rather interesting case:  NASA astronaut Anne McClain, who participated in Expedition 58/59 from December 2018 to June 2019, is claimed of having illegally accessed her ex-wife's bank account during her time on the ISS.  The Agency says it has opened an investigation into what could be the first crime in space.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-49457912

 

Interesting is the fact that (according to the article), "a legal framework sets out that national law applies to any people and possessions in space. So if a Canadian national were to commit a crime in space, they would be subject to Canadian law, and a Russian citizen to Russian law", which explains the initiation of the investigation by the NASA and not by an international body.

[mikegarrison]

Despite the headlines, it seems that the actual thing she is being investigated for is more like "improper use of government computers". No money was removed from the account and the charge of "identity theft" appears to have gone nowhere.

[Xd the great]

5 hours ago, XB-70A said:

Interesting is the fact that (according to the article), "a legal framework sets out that national law applies to any people and possessions in space. So if a Canadian national were to commit a crime in space, they would be subject to Canadian law, and a Russian citizen to Russian law", which explains the initiation of the investigation by the NASA and not by an international body.

Huh. I though maritime law, or whatever international treaty signed for space, classifies space as internarional water, and thus the people are confined to the laws of the origin country of the craft.

Interesting.

[DDE]

3 hours ago, Xd the great said:

Huh. I though maritime law, or whatever international treaty signed for space, classifies space as internarional water, and thus the people are confined to the laws of the origin country of the craft.

Interesting.

I think the very extensive ISS Treaty supersedes that.

Theoretically Article 27 of Russia's 5663-I law "On Space Activities" can expose her to Russian criminal law as well.

[YNM]

30 minutes ago, DDE said:

ISS Treaty

I think on the ISS each individual is held by nationality ("each partner shall retain jurisdiction and control ... over personnel in or on the Space Station who are its nationals"), whereas the physical station is divided on the USOS-ROS line, albeit it does say "each partner shall retain jurisdiction and control over the elements it registers ...", so this might mean Kibo would be Japanese, Columbus would be European.

 

Then again if something truly horrible would happen on the ISS I guess it'd be like the Lockerbie disaster - there would be more agreements made on the fly.

Edited August 25, 2019 by YNM

[Shpaget]

The claim is that she accessed a shared bank account. She shares that bank account with her wife. They are in process of getting a divorce, but have not separated their finances yet, at least not concerning that bank account.

I am confused why would anybody consider this illegal.

[kerbiloid]

Nothing even comparable to the 2007 road movie.

Edited August 25, 2019 by kerbiloid

[KamenRiderzero1]

would seem to me the crux of the argument is whether her wife cut McClain out of the account in some way, shape or form. 

[Selective Genius]

1 hour ago, Shpaget said:

I am confused why would anybody consider this illegal.

My guess is that her wife is trying to get some extra monies and some publicity by raking up the stakes..

Quite a few karborundum-diggers out there... but that's juuust my personal opinion!

Spoiler

Quote

Crime in Space

Starship getting robbed on it's way to Mars by Somalian pirates. I can see the headlines now...

 

Edited August 25, 2019 by Selective Genius

[kerbiloid]

44 minutes ago, Selective Genius said:

Starship getting robbed on it's way to Mars by Somalian pirates.

If the leg bays have enough empty room, why not...

Spoiler

 

Edited August 25, 2019 by kerbiloid

[tater]

In future maybe Fedor can arrest any criminals at ISS.

[razark]

3 hours ago, Shpaget said:

I am confused why would anybody consider this illegal.

Depending on what paperwork has been filed, there may be Temporary Restraining Orders in place that limit what each party can do with what assets.

(Although, I don't see any TRO in this case.)

Edited August 25, 2019 by razark

[Lisias]

3 hours ago, Shpaget said:

I am confused why would anybody consider this illegal.

Its a bogus claim to poison her image to try to gain sympathy and earn advantages on the divorce. It works very well when the defendant… exercises an more orthodox sexuality.

[kerbiloid]

1 hour ago, tater said:

In future maybe Fedor can arrest any criminals at ISS.

Spoiler

 

 

[Shpaget]

1 hour ago, razark said:

Depending on what paperwork has been filed, there may be Temporary Restraining Orders in place that limit what each party can do with what assets.

(Although, I don't see any TRO in this case.)

But the point is that there was no restriction on usage of the account, at least not any formal restriction. I can't speak about any potential verbal agreement between McClain and Worden, but it appears there wasn't any legally binding restriction. 

McClain could have legally emptied the account, which she did not do. She only looked at numbers. After all, it's a shared account, it's her responsibility as an adult to keep track of her finances.

It's all fishy, but what I dislike the most is that children are mentioned. Worden claims that McClain wants to lay claim on Worden's child from a previous relationship. While that may be true and that McClain has less than honorable motives, this is not a matter that should be discussed in public.

[Lisias]

2 minutes ago, Shpaget said:

But the point is that there was no restriction on usage of the account, at least not any formal restriction. I can't speak about any potential verbal agreement between McClain and Worden, but it appears there wasn't any legally binding restriction. 

Yeah, mas you missed the broader scenario.

The important is getting the adversary with a formal accusation of wrongdoing. Once the accusation is dismissed, the divorce is already judged - and the judge will rule using the facts he/she have in hands, i.e., one of the litigants has a formal accusation of wrongdoing.

 

4 minutes ago, Shpaget said:

It's all fishy, but what I dislike the most is that children are mentioned. Worden claims that McClain wants to lay claim on Worden's child from a previous relationship. While that may be true and that McClain has less than honorable motives, this is not a matter that should be discussed in public.

I was wrong. You didn't missed the broader scenario.  

One of the parts is building a public Circus in order to influence the Public Opinion to be used as a weapon on the trial. I suspect things are going to be a lot worse.

Poor kid.

[razark]

9 minutes ago, Shpaget said:

But the point is that there was no restriction on usage of the account, at least not any formal restriction.

We don't know all the details.  We don't even know how accurate the reporting on the case is.  My idea was posted before I went and actually looked at what I could on the case.  However, there are other possibilities that could exist, for example: was person A using person B's login information to access the account?

Simply put, we don't know, we aren't likely to know, and the best we're ever going to get is idle internet armchair lawyering.

[Guest]

TBH, this is likely the actual purpose of the whole thing. Raise a lot of internet armchair lawyering, make some noise and capitalize on a "public scandal". If one of the women involved wasn't in space at the time, nobody would be talking about this, since the fact that it's two women divorcing isn't enough to raise an eyebrow anymore. I don't know what exactly there is to gain by doing that, but these cases tend to have a lot of emotion involved. 

5 hours ago, tater said:

In future maybe Fedor can arrest any criminals at ISS.

Yeah, and put them into space jail.  Followed by a trail in a space court and being sent to space gulag one the moon (hint: don't build mass drivers if you do that...).  

[sh1pman]

6 hours ago, tater said:

In future maybe Fedor can arrest any criminals at ISS.

First Law disabled. Removing bandit.

[Nightside]

57 minutes ago, Dragon01 said:

Followed by a trail in a space court

But she’ll need a jury of her peers- which means an all astronaut jury. And astronauts don’t snitch on astronauts: see the case of the mystery pooper.

[kerbiloid]

7 hours ago, Dragon01 said:

put them into space jail.

They have an unused inflatable habitat for that.

(Unless they use it to secretly smoke.)

Edited August 26, 2019 by kerbiloid

[DDE]

14 hours ago, tater said:

In future maybe Fedor can arrest any criminals at ISS.

 

[YNM]

On the case itself : I feel terrible for this. Honestly this seems like an unnecessary escalation. I wish they can solve this themselves on their own. This will end terribly for either side.

[DDE]

16 hours ago, sh1pman said:

First Law disabled. Removing bandit.

Quote

The first law is not the Law.

I am the Law.

Spoiler