No more free dlc for old players :-)

[Pawelk198604]

Just learned about new KSP seems cool, but i have my own conspiracy theory about it :-) 

 

Old KSP players that bought game before April 2013 ware eligible for free DLC, but only for original KSP, it seems a bit easy way out for me ;-)    

[ShawnPhillips]

KSP 2 is an entirely different project being developed by a different development team, KSP1 will still be supported and updated by Squad. The existence of KSP2 does not mean no more KSP1 DLCs, KSP2 was already well into development when the Breaking Ground DLC released.

[Guest]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that KSP2 was underway long before Making History was a thing. I've been here a long time, and I remember a remark about KSP1 multiplayer, which was first promised, to much excitement, then quietly forgotten about.The last word on it was "it's still being worked on, by a separate team". A long time after that, with no word on the case, KSP2 shows up, and lo and behold, it has multiplayer. 

Of course, T2 obviously benefits from ditching that particular part of the agreement. That said, pre-2013 KSP veterans represent a very small chunk of the playerbase. It was a very different game, by a completely different team (and quite frankly, a much better ran forum). 

[Kerbart]

1 hour ago, Pawelk198604 said:

Old KSP players that bought game before April 2013 ware eligible for free DLC, but only for original KSP, it seems a bit easy way out for me ;-)    

Easy? Why?

Please describe how rewriting the code from scratch can be achieved at zero cost, which is what you are suggesting (by claiming that Private Division should not charge for it)?

[Pawelk198604]

2 hours ago, Kerbart said:

Easy? Why?

Please describe how rewriting the code from scratch can be achieved at zero cost, which is what you are suggesting (by claiming that Private Division should not charge for it)?

Just joking and certainly buy it if i  had enough money, and my computer run it but some discounts for veteran players would be nice  ;-)

And multiplayer would be cool, some could be astronauts and some could be mission control ;-) 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Pawelk198604 said:

discounts for veteran players would be nice  ;-)

Nice? Yep, it would be, but would it be right?

Veterans players (especally people who have free DLCs) are the one who got the most playtime at the lowest price, having someone who paid the game 15$ or less not to pay the sequel wouldn't be right for people who paid the game 40$ 6 month before the announcement of the sequel.

[Pawelk198604]

3 hours ago, Master39 said:

Nice? Yep, it would be, but would it be right?

Veterans players (especally people who have free DLCs) are the one who got the most playtime at the lowest price, having someone who paid the game 15$ or less not to pay the sequel wouldn't be right for people who paid the game 40$ 6 month before the announcement of the sequel.

So maybe it should be some discount for all who previously bought KSP? 

[GoldForest]

20 minutes ago, Pawelk198604 said:

So maybe it should be some discount for all who previously bought KSP? 

If it was made by Squad, maybe. But KSP 2 is a completely new game from a completely different company. 

[Xd the great]

24 minutes ago, Pawelk198604 said:

So maybe it should be some discount for all who previously bought KSP? 

Good idea.

[Danilo Coelho]

Come on guys, you are paying 60 bucks for this game. I'm from Brazil and i will proudly pay 4 times that, because this game deserves it! (1 american dolar equals 4 brazilian reais)

 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Pawelk198604 said:

So maybe it should be some discount for all who previously bought KSP? 

Why they should? It's a new product from a new company and it has no competition because it's the one and only game in this niche, on top of that it requires a different skill set from most AAA games and a lot of custom work on top of the engine to make anything work, why should they give it away discounted or for free?

[Superfluous J]

13 hours ago, Pawelk198604 said:

Old KSP players that bought game before April 2013 ware eligible for free DLC, but only for original KSP, it seems a bit easy way out for me ;-)    

Super easy. All they had to do was sell their IP, get Take Two to get a different developer to spend years coding in secret an entirely new game, then make that game good enough to outshine the original ship purple would by it...

And then bam no free DLC for you!

[dave1904]

I bought PS2 games for 60 euros and ps3 games for 70 euros. Games have had no inflation in the past 20 years and yet people think 60 euros is to much. 

[pandaman]

Well, as an early adopter, assuming that once i see what the release version is like I still want it (looking good so far), I am happy to pay normal price for it.

If they do decide to give me a discount I will gladly take it of course, and it would be a nice gesture, but I certainly don't feel as if I have any entitlement to it.

[dave1904]

11 hours ago, Pawelk198604 said:

Just joking and certainly buy it if i  had enough money, and my computer run it but some discounts for veteran players would be nice  ;-)

And multiplayer would be cool, some could be astronauts and some could be mission control ;-) 

 

It makes no sense to me. If you are an early access player you gave them less money than someone that bought the game plus dlc yesterday and think you have supported them more somehow? Please explain? Sure feedback is important but you cannot eat feedback. Why do you feel entitled to get something for free or cheaper because you are part of the community for longer? 

You cannot demand that a developer goes out and makes you a game for free or even a discount. Squad have given us alot of free content in updates and mods and to ask for more free content is absurd. Simple fact of the matter is that games are made with a profit in mind and if there is less profit there are less reasons to make the game. As long as KSP2 is a solid game I do not care in the slightest bit how much money they make. Everyone wants to make money and thats good if they are willing to deliver a good product to us. If you cannot afford it then I am sorry for you but that doesn't mean someone should work for free for you. That being said I highly doubt someone on these forums cannot afford a full priced game. You yourself have 1800 posts so I am sure you have the time :p 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, dave1904 said:

It makes no sense to me. If you are an early access player you gave them less money than someone that bought the game plus dlc yesterday and think you have supported them more somehow? Please explain? Sure feedback is important but you cannot eat feedback. Why do you feel entitled to get something for free or cheaper because you are part of the community for longer? 

Because without that money, KSP1 would never have happened in first place. We paid money for a game which was highly unfinished, lacking most features, was made by a completely unknown developer and for all we knew, it could've been a dud. Squad could have taken our money and left us with KSP version 0.14 or whatever, never to be heard from again. There are many devs who did precisely that with their EA projects. Admittedly, it was already fun at this stage, and you could try it because 0.13 was actually free to play, but it was still a bit of a gamble. We bet our money on Squad, hoping that they were good enough to deliver. They did, but this wasn't a given when I gave them my $10. And I can tell you, that $10 went further towards making the KSP happen than anything you can pay them now. We gave them money when it counted, back when they didn't have a giant crowd of Steam noobies all paying for it, and in fact it was nearly unknown outside spaceflight-oriented communities. All you who complain about early adopters getting perks have no idea how KSP looked back in early 2013. It just wasn't the powerhouse it is now, and showed few signs of becoming one at that point (although once it got on Steam, it did take off pretty quickly). 

When you buy the game today, with the DLCs, your money goes towards continued support, maybe a few new parts and features, and that's it. You know that the base game is solid, and you don't risk much. In a larger company, you'd also pay for the next game, but in case of Squad that isn't really the case, since they're not the ones who are making KSP2. When we bought the game, we paid for having it made at all. Thanks to us, you've got all those wonderful features like docking, plane parts, planets, wheels or functional solar panels. Feedback was also nice, and early adopters shaped the game in a major way (including adding first wheels and plane parts), but this was a few select people. A lot more contributed by simply supporting Squad when KSP was in its infancy.

We want perks because we literally made KSP happen, and we literally shaped it into what it is now (community had a huge role, especially early on). I think it's a reasonable expectation, especially given that we're talking pre-2013, so anyone who has eligible has stuck with Squad for six years, if not longer. That's a long time to stay with one game, to say the least, and it's always good to reward loyalty. It shows that you care for people who care for you.

The case is less solid for rewarding all KSP1 players (especially since that would be expensive), but it could be a good move to establish a small, limited time "loyalty discount" both to encourage them to switch (as opposed to sticking to KSP1 and waiting for the price on KSP2 to drop), and to encourage new buyers (this sort of thing is good for reputation). Of course this strategy works best when an entire series is planned, and most games these days give cosmetic items rather than a discount, but in case of KSP, that approach probably wouldn't work. 

[Klapaucius]

2 hours ago, Dragon01 said:

Because without that money, KSP1 would never have happened in first place. We paid money for a game which was highly unfinished, lacking most features, was made by a completely unknown developer and for all we knew, it could've been a dud. Squad could have taken our money and left us with KSP version 0.14 or whatever, never to be heard from again.

But they did not.  And you risked, what $7?  That's like going out to dinner, ordering a beer from a microbrewery and then claiming the microbewery owes you a discount, because you took a risk that the beer might not be good.  And that is a good analogy, since the beer will likely cost more than you paid for KSP, even adjusting for inflation.

KSP owes you nothing.

 

And KSP2 has rewarded loyalty. They flew Scott Manley, Jatwaa, DasValdez, @linuxgurugamer, @Snark, Shadowzone, Matt Lowne (though he was unable to get off work) and a perhaps a few others to meet with the developers, talk with them and even take on suggestions.  Of course, that is a good marketing move, but paying for all those flights (some from Europe) was not cheap.

And they are rewarding loyalty by listening to player feedback.  As has Squad, by the way. The new DLC is full of stuff the community has been asking for.

 

22 hours ago, GoldForest said:

If it was made by Squad, maybe. But KSP 2 is a completely new game from a completely different company. 

Squad does not owe anybody a discount either.  It was a kind gesture that has morphed into an expectation.

[GoldForest]

Just now, Klapaucius said:

Squad does not owe anybody a discount either.  It was a kind gesture that has morphed into an expectation.

That's why I said maybe. I know it's up to the developer and I thank that they did that, even though I was one or two versions too late to get it myself. 

[dave1904]

2 hours ago, Dragon01 said:

Because without that money, KSP1 would never have happened in first place. We paid money for a game which was highly unfinished, lacking most features, was made by a completely unknown developer and for all we knew, it could've been a dud. Squad could have taken our money and left us with KSP version 0.14 or whatever, never to be heard from again. There are many devs who did precisely that with their EA projects. Admittedly, it was already fun at this stage, and you could try it because 0.13 was actually free to play, but it was still a bit of a gamble. We bet our money on Squad, hoping that they were good enough to deliver. They did, but this wasn't a given when I gave them my $10. And I can tell you, that $10 went further towards making the KSP happen than anything you can pay them now. We gave them money when it counted, back when they didn't have a giant crowd of Steam noobies all paying for it, and in fact it was nearly unknown outside spaceflight-oriented communities. All you who complain about early adopters getting perks have no idea how KSP looked back in early 2013. It just wasn't the powerhouse it is now, and showed few signs of becoming one at that point (although once it got on Steam, it did take off pretty quickly). 

When you buy the game today, with the DLCs, your money goes towards continued support, maybe a few new parts and features, and that's it. You know that the base game is solid, and you don't risk much. In a larger company, you'd also pay for the next game, but in case of Squad that isn't really the case, since they're not the ones who are making KSP2. When we bought the game, we paid for having it made at all. Thanks to us, you've got all those wonderful features like docking, plane parts, planets, wheels or functional solar panels. Feedback was also nice, and early adopters shaped the game in a major way (including adding first wheels and plane parts), but this was a few select people. A lot more contributed by simply supporting Squad when KSP was in its infancy.

We want perks because we literally made KSP happen, and we literally shaped it into what it is now (community had a huge role, especially early on). I think it's a reasonable expectation, especially given that we're talking pre-2013, so anyone who has eligible has stuck with Squad for six years, if not longer. That's a long time to stay with one game, to say the least, and it's always good to reward loyalty. It shows that you care for people who care for you.

The case is less solid for rewarding all KSP1 players (especially since that would be expensive), but it could be a good move to establish a small, limited time "loyalty discount" both to encourage them to switch (as opposed to sticking to KSP1 and waiting for the price on KSP2 to drop), and to encourage new buyers (this sort of thing is good for reputation). Of course this strategy works best when an entire series is planned, and most games these days give cosmetic items rather than a discount, but in case of KSP, that approach probably wouldn't work. 

I would consider releasing DLC for free to early access players and free updates and improvements 4 years post release good for reputation. Please don't talk as if 10euro was a risk either. You shouldn't act so entitled. Please don't use the world loyalty like that because there is no loyalty here. We stick around because we enjoy KSP and maybe its just me but I feel squad has delivered on everything they have ever promised and more so I would never ask for anything more. 

[Klapaucius]

4 hours ago, GoldForest said:

That's why I said maybe. I know it's up to the developer and I thank that they did that, even though I was one or two versions too late to get it myself. 

I realize we're pretty much on the same page. I just would not even say maybe. Sorry if that did not come across that way. 

Edited September 8, 2019 by Klapaucius

[Snark]

32 minutes ago, Klapaucius said:

They flew Scott Manley, Jatwaa, DasValdez, @linuxgurugamer, @Snark,

Minor correction, they didn't fly me.  I'm local.

Not that it's relevant to your point, just keeping the record straight. 

There were nine of us in total.  Six streamers, three modders.  (The other modder was @Galileo.)  Though if I had to guess their reason for inviting me, I suspect that my role as forum moderator was probably more relevant-- I'm better known in that regard, and certainly among modders there are plenty of others better-known than me.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, dave1904 said:

Please don't use the world loyalty like that because there is no loyalty here.

There is very definitely loyalty involved here. Or at least, there was with regards to the old Squad. The guys currently running the show hadn't had the chances to earn that yet, but it's looking good so far. Granted, it's easy to be loyal when things are going well (and when there's only one serious attempt at competition, though that could well prove my point), but for many, including myself, KSP is more than just a game. 

11 minutes ago, Klapaucius said:

Squad does not owe anybody a discount either.  It was a kind gesture that has morphed into an expectation.

Squad owes me free DLCs, because that's what I paid for. They couldn't have withdrawn if they wanted. Kindness had nothing to do with it. I'm not litigious, but if at least one early adopter was, not honoring this promise could've ended badly and very expensively. Though admittedly, the fact that they didn't even try to weasel out of that part of the agreement is a point for them. 

You should know software=/=physical goods, so you comparison is invalid. And besides, if someone gives you the support you needed, at a moment when you've just started out your business and every cent counts, I think you do, in fact, owe that person a little bit of gratitude. If not a discount, then at least a shout-out (in a microbrewery scenario, you're most likely friends with the owner anyway, if you backed him as early as I did KSP).

[Ender65535]

What's the matter guys? Some discount would be nice but if everything they have announced thus far was delivered, I am happy to pay the MSRP. 

[nsgallup]

Entitlement

[dave1904]

8 hours ago, Dragon01 said:

There is very definitely loyalty involved here. Or at least, there was with regards to the old Squad. The guys currently running the show hadn't had the chances to earn that yet, but it's looking good so far. Granted, it's easy to be loyal when things are going well (and when there's only one serious attempt at competition, though that could well prove my point), but for many, including myself, KSP is more than just a game. 

if a game came out tomorrow that was better than ksp we would all swap. Impossible however since the little green men create and attachment..