[1.5 - 1.10] Kerbalism 3.11

[atomontage]

On 8/16/2024 at 8:25 PM, SheepDog2142 said:

There is a Kerbalism Science only config that  Jesuite is doing that im testing MKS on if you want to join in.

Thanks, but I'm not interested in a science only config. I want complete Kerbalism experience. That's why I'm asking.

[Streetwind]

A small heads-up, since I've seen multiple people report having problems with solar panels not producing power in the background in this thread, and I encountered the same issue too:

On my end I was able to track it down to using ScrapYard. Pulling solar panels fresh from the part selector was fine, but re-using panels from the ScrapYard inventory resulted in them not working properly.

The reason is probably that Kerbalism's bespoke solar panel module which replaces the stock one and enables the background processing also attempts to record the time when the vessel was launched (to model solar panel decay over time, I think). That means it must run custom code when a vessel is sent to the launchpad. And it seems that that code is either not being run for the re-used panels, or the code breaks; either way, it results in an inactive module with boilerplate values. If you look up an affected vessel in your savefile, you'll be able to see that the module has "isEnabled=false" set, and likely some wrong values in other fields.

 

Edited September 27 by Streetwind

[Streetwind]

A question on the topic of antennas and science transmission rates:

Does bouncing the singal through a relay affect the possible transmission rate? The documentation doesn't mention any of this. It at most suggests that the data rate of the weakest relay would bottleneck the transmission rate even if stronger antennas are involved elsewhere on the path. However, in my game I get much worse results than that, and I'd like to understand the details.

Example:
- A vessel has a direct antenna with a 25.00 kB/s maximum transmission rate
- A relay satellite has a relay antenna with a 12.88 kB/s maximum transmission rate
- The vessel has a 100% link to the relay, and the relay has a 100% link directly to KSC
- The vessel actually transmits at... 3.55 kB/s? But why?

[king of nowhere]

it's so weird to read most people posting here are asking about transmission rate.

in all my years playing with the mod, i never even remotely cared about trasmission rates. i just let science transmit at whatever pace it wanted; i installed this mod for the life support, the radiation, the challenge. i always had to contend with dozens of bugs anyway, anything that doesn't break the game is not worth worrying about.

reading this thread is like looking at a parallel reality with inverted priorities...

[Streetwind]

Oh, it's every bit about life support. Because the vessel is running an experiment outputting 7.8 kB/s, and was supposed to be doing this for two weeks. And it has life support for around three weeks. Problem is, because the antenna is running at less than half the rate of data output, the experiment gets stalled out and won't finish before the life support runs out.

In the meantime, I figured out what's going on. There is a small supplies barge docked to the vessel in question. The barge is supposed to undock and deorbit itself once exhausted, hence it still has its transfer stage section. Which, since this is an uncrewed barge, includes... another antenna. A Communotron 16-S, tucked away inside a service bay, where it can't be seen and therefore was easily overlooked. I like using the 16-S this way, because it doesn't need to be extended, and I keep forgetting to extend other antennas, which has caused more than one vessel going dead just before circularizing.

And despite the 16-S being uncombinable in the stock game, under Kerbalism rules it apparently can be combined with other antennas.

So instead of having the vessel use its 4Gm, 25 kB/s DTS-M1 for data transmission, it instead uses that powerful antenna to boost the tiny 16-S's anemic rates. -__-  So much for realism...

And, since the 16-S cannot be extended, it of course cannot be turned off either...

Moral of the story: only use extendable antennas for any vessel designed to dock with something that has a stronger antenna. Otherwise you as good as disable that stronger antenna just by docking to it.

[Xt007]

@Steetwind  Antenna behavior depends if you've got Real Antennas installed.  If you do, kerbalism follows that mod for transmission.  With stock your transmission rate drops from the base rate depending on range of the antenna and how far out the vessel is, regardless of relays.  They help a bit, but mainly exist as a way to maintain signal and control of a vessel that may not otherwise have the range on antennas it has.

[Streetwind]

@Xt007 I understand stock transmission range and signal strength, as well as how Kerbalism attenuates transmission rates when signal strength drops. In this case there is 100% signal strength along every single hop of the route. There should not be any attenuation.

Additionally, when I undock the supplies barge and thereby remove the small extra antenna, the vessel's transmission rate immediately shoots up to the 12.88 kB/s limit of the relay.

So this has nothing to do with distance, and everything to do with Kerbalism screwing up the combinability of stock antennas.

[theJesuit]

@Streetwind, yes kerbalism does base all transmission on the worst antenna available. It was a coding then that was easier at the time.

[Gotmachine]

10 hours ago, Streetwind said:

So this has nothing to do with distance, and everything to do with Kerbalism screwing up the combinability of stock antennas.

This is actually intended behavior, Kerbalism adds additional rules concerning antenna combinability and the resulting data rate. To quote the Kerbalism wiki :

Quote

This also means that you will want to combine antennae of same or similar capabilities only. If you combine one very fast antenna with one that is very weak, you will sacrifice almost all of the speed benefits you get from the fast antenna for the added range benefit of the weak antenna.

It is indeed a bit problematic in practice as this require additional micromanagement, but mainly because the only way to disable an antenna is to retract it, and many antennas aren't retractable.

[Brimarx]

I am trying to get Kerbalism and ConfigurableContainer to work together, by removing all life-support resources Kerbalism adds to Pods, and converting them to ConfigurableContainer volume. I can make ConfigurableContainer volume work just fine, but I cannot find a way to delete Kerbalism Life Support resources. Does anyone know how to do that?

Example of my last attempt (Oxygen, Water, Food, Nitrogen and WasteWater are NOT deleted):

// ============================================================================
// Delete stock resources, add Configurable Container volume => WORKS FINE
// ============================================================================
@PART[Benjee10_MMSEV]:NEEDS[Benjee10_MMSEV,ConfigurableContainers]
{
    !RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]
    { }
    !RESOURCE[LiquidFuel]
    { }
    !RESOURCE[Oxidizer]
    { }
    !RESOURCE[MonoPropellant]
    { }

    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleTankManager
        Volume = 0.35
        DoCostPatch = True
        DoMassPatch = True
    }
}
// ============================================================================
// If Kerbalism is found, delete Life Support resources => DOES NOTHING
// ============================================================================
@PART[Benjee10_MMSEV]:NEEDS[Benjee10_MMSEV,ConfigurableContainers,ProfileDefault]:FOR[KerbalismDefault]
{
    !RESOURCE[Oxygen]
    { }
    !RESOURCE[Water]
    { }
    !RESOURCE[Food]
    { }
    !RESOURCE[Nitrogen]
    { }
    !RESOURCE[WasteWater]
    { }
}

 

Edited October 9 by Brimarx

[theJesuit]

1 hour ago, Brimarx said:

I am trying to get Kerbalism and ConfigurableContainer to work together, by removing all life-support resources Kerbalism adds to Pods, and converting them to ConfigurableContainer volume. I can make ConfigurableContainer volume work just fine, but I cannot find a way to delete Kerbalism Life Support resources. Does anyone know how to do that?

Example of my last attempt (Oxygen, Water, Food, Nitrogen and WasteWater are NOT deleted):

// ============================================================================
// Delete stock resources, add Configurable Container volume => WORKS FINE
// ============================================================================
@PART[Benjee10_MMSEV]:NEEDS[Benjee10_MMSEV,ConfigurableContainers]
{
    !RESOURCE[ElectricCharge]
    { }
    !RESOURCE[LiquidFuel]
    { }
    !RESOURCE[Oxidizer]
    { }
    !RESOURCE[MonoPropellant]
    { }

    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleTankManager
        Volume = 0.35
        DoCostPatch = True
        DoMassPatch = True
    }
}
// ============================================================================
// If Kerbalism is found, delete Life Support resources => DOES NOTHING
// ============================================================================
@PART[Benjee10_MMSEV]:NEEDS[Benjee10_MMSEV,ConfigurableContainers,ProfileDefault]:FOR[KerbalismDefault]
{
    !RESOURCE[Oxygen]
    { }
    !RESOURCE[Water]
    { }
    !RESOURCE[Food]
    { }
    !RESOURCE[Nitrogen]
    { }
    !RESOURCE[WasteWater]
    { }
}

 

You pretty much can't from memory.  Kerbalism is hardcoded to put them in i think.  Have a look in the profile, which you can't patch.  The resources are the supplies at the tip of the profile.  You can make your own profile though!

[Brimarx]

On 10/9/2024 at 1:00 AM, theJesuit said:

You pretty much can't from memory.  Kerbalism is hardcoded to put them in i think.  Have a look in the profile, which you can't patch.  The resources are the supplies at the tip of the profile.  You can make your own profile though!

Thx for your help!

Changing the profile works, with global impacts obviously, but I can live with that. Creating a whole new profile seems like a whole can of worm though as many other mods' MM patches rely on "DefaultProfile".

Edited October 10 by Brimarx

[dave1904]

26 minutes ago, Brimarx said:

Thx for your help!

Changing the profile works, with global impacts obviously, but I can leave with that. Creating a whole new profile seems like a whole can of worm though as many other mods' MM patches rely on "DefaultProfile".

If you have a B9 cargo switch mod you can overwrite it  

 

@PART[BCS_Centauri_CrewCapsule]:NEEDS[BoringCrewServices]
{
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleB9PartSwitch
        moduleID = cargoSwitch
        switcherDescription = Cargo
        switcherDescriptionPlural = Cargos
        baseVolume = 100
        switchInFlight = True
        affectDragCubes = false
    }
}

 

In my case im using skyhawk so all i need to do is add the empty cargo module. Skyhawk does the rest. 

Spoiler

@PART[*]:HAS[~SSS_NoCargoSwitch[True]&@MODULE[ModuleB9PartSwitch]:HAS[#moduleID[cargoSwitch]]]:FOR[zzzSkyhawkScienceSystem]
{
    @MODULE[ModuleB9PartSwitch]:HAS[#moduleID[cargoSwitch]]
    {
        SUBTYPE
        {
            name = Food
            tankType = SSS_Food
            title = Food
            primaryColor = Avocado
            secondaryColor = Avocado
        }
        SUBTYPE
        {
            name = Provisions
            tankType = SSS_Provisions
            title = Provisions
        }
        SUBTYPE
        {
            name = Waste
            tankType = SSS_Waste
            title = Waste
        }
        SUBTYPE
        {
            name = WasteWater
            tankType = SSS_WasteWater
            title = WasteWater
        }
        SUBTYPE
        {
            name = Sewage
            tankType = SSS_Sewage
            title = Sewage
        }        
        SUBTYPE
        {
            name = LifeSupport
            tankType = SSS_LifeSupport
            title = Life Support
        }    
        SUBTYPE
        {
            name = Oxygen
            tankType = SSS_Oxygen
            title = Oxygen
            primaryColor = BabyBlue
            secondaryColor = BabyBlue
        }
        SUBTYPE
        {
            name = Nitrogen
            tankType = SSS_Nitrogen
            title = Nitrogen
            primaryColor = BlueyGrey
            secondaryColor = BlueyGrey
        }
        SUBTYPE
        {
            name = Hydrogen
            tankType = SSS_Hydrogen
            title = Hydrogen
            primaryColor = Dandelion
            secondaryColor = Dandelion
        }        
        SUBTYPE
        {
            name = Ammonia
            tankType = SSS_Ammonia
            title = Ammonia
            primaryColor = EmeraldGreen
            secondaryColor = EmeraldGreen
        }
        SUBTYPE
        {
            name = CarbonDioxide
            tankType = SSS_CarbonDioxide
            title = CarbonDioxide
            primaryColor = LightMauve
            secondaryColor = LightMauve
        }
        SUBTYPE
        {
            name = Water
            tankType = SSS_Water
            title = Water
            primaryColor = Ocean
            secondaryColor = Ocean
        }
        SUBTYPE
        {
            name = Fertilizer
            tankType = SSS_Fertilizer
            title = Fertilizer
            primaryColor = DarkSand
            secondaryColor = DarkSand
        }
    }
}

 

Edited October 9 by dave1904

[Brimarx]

22 hours ago, dave1904 said:

If you have a B9 cargo switch mod you can overwrite it  

 

@PART[BCS_Centauri_CrewCapsule]:NEEDS[BoringCrewServices]
{
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleB9PartSwitch
        moduleID = cargoSwitch
        switcherDescription = Cargo
        switcherDescriptionPlural = Cargos
        baseVolume = 100
        switchInFlight = True
        affectDragCubes = false
    }
}

 

In my case im using skyhawk so all i need to do is add the empty cargo module. Skyhawk does the rest. 

  Hide contents

@PART[*]:HAS[~SSS_NoCargoSwitch[True]&@MODULE[ModuleB9PartSwitch]:HAS[#moduleID[cargoSwitch]]]:FOR[zzzSkyhawkScienceSystem]
{
    @MODULE[ModuleB9PartSwitch]:HAS[#moduleID[cargoSwitch]]
    {
        SUBTYPE
        {
            name = Food
            tankType = SSS_Food
            title = Food
            primaryColor = Avocado
            secondaryColor = Avocado
        }
        SUBTYPE
        {
            name = Provisions
            tankType = SSS_Provisions
            title = Provisions
        }
        SUBTYPE
        {
            name = Waste
            tankType = SSS_Waste
            title = Waste
        }
        SUBTYPE
        {
            name = WasteWater
            tankType = SSS_WasteWater
            title = WasteWater
        }
        SUBTYPE
        {
            name = Sewage
            tankType = SSS_Sewage
            title = Sewage
        }        
        SUBTYPE
        {
            name = LifeSupport
            tankType = SSS_LifeSupport
            title = Life Support
        }    
        SUBTYPE
        {
            name = Oxygen
            tankType = SSS_Oxygen
            title = Oxygen
            primaryColor = BabyBlue
            secondaryColor = BabyBlue
        }
        SUBTYPE
        {
            name = Nitrogen
            tankType = SSS_Nitrogen
            title = Nitrogen
            primaryColor = BlueyGrey
            secondaryColor = BlueyGrey
        }
        SUBTYPE
        {
            name = Hydrogen
            tankType = SSS_Hydrogen
            title = Hydrogen
            primaryColor = Dandelion
            secondaryColor = Dandelion
        }        
        SUBTYPE
        {
            name = Ammonia
            tankType = SSS_Ammonia
            title = Ammonia
            primaryColor = EmeraldGreen
            secondaryColor = EmeraldGreen
        }
        SUBTYPE
        {
            name = CarbonDioxide
            tankType = SSS_CarbonDioxide
            title = CarbonDioxide
            primaryColor = LightMauve
            secondaryColor = LightMauve
        }
        SUBTYPE
        {
            name = Water
            tankType = SSS_Water
            title = Water
            primaryColor = Ocean
            secondaryColor = Ocean
        }
        SUBTYPE
        {
            name = Fertilizer
            tankType = SSS_Fertilizer
            title = Fertilizer
            primaryColor = DarkSand
            secondaryColor = DarkSand
        }
    }
}

 

Thx for sharing. I never used B9 cargo switch, but I guess I should give it a try

[dave1904]

48 minutes ago, Brimarx said:

Thx for sharing. I never used B9 cargo switch, but I guess I should give it a try

I gave you an oversimplified answer however. I assume you know how b9 tank types work. Simply making the patch I pasted is not enough. It does work really nice however. This way I give larger pods like orion and shuttle more resources. They are designed to carry more.

[Infinite Aerospace]

Are there any construction mods, like Extra Planetary Launch Pads that work with Kerbalism? Tried a game for a while without it (Kerbalism) installed but it's just not the same like, it's like *the* life support / realism mod. At this point I'm thinking, for me at least it's as 'must have' as EVE or Scatterer.

[king of nowhere]

9 hours ago, Infinite Aerospace said:

Are there any construction mods, like Extra Planetary Launch Pads that work with Kerbalism? Tried a game for a while without it (Kerbalism) installed but it's just not the same like, it's like *the* life support / realism mod. At this point I'm thinking, for me at least it's as 'must have' as EVE or Scatterer.

if you mean building rockets, the "near future" package of extra parts work with kerbalism.

if you mean moving the launchpad to other planets, no idea.

[JadeOfMaar]

@king of nowhere There is need for a C# wizard who's able and willing to write support modules for the various extended resource converter modules that come with the best mods. Sandcastle has become a full alternative to EL (so @Infinite Aerospace asked in that thread recently) and I had to give them a no because I already know that the various modules that @Angelo Kerman writes for his mods don't have Kerbalism in mind, and tend to not function with Kerbalism. (This recently confirmed by another person who also wants this compatibility.)

I don't use Kerbalism myself so I don't know how much of this gap can be filled with just config wizardry. What I do know is the "basic" resource converter modules (namely, RocketParts production and recycling ScrapMetal) can simply be replaced with recipes in Kerbalism's Configure module, and any resource harvesting modules can easily be changed out in similar fashion. As for the modules for part and ship production, that's beyond me.

[Infinite Aerospace]

10 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@king of nowhere There is need for a C# wizard who's able and willing to write support modules for the various extended resource converter modules that come with the best mods. Sandcastle has become a full alternative to EL (so @Infinite Aerospace asked in that thread recently) and I had to give them a no because I already know that the various modules that @Angelo Kerman writes for his mods don't have Kerbalism in mind, and tend to not function with Kerbalism. (This recently confirmed by another person who also wants this compatibility.)

I don't use Kerbalism myself so I don't know how much of this gap can be filled with just config wizardry. What I do know is the "basic" resource converter modules (namely, RocketParts production and recycling ScrapMetal) can simply be replaced with recipes in Kerbalism's Configure module, and any resource harvesting modules can easily be changed out in similar fashion. As for the modules for part and ship production, that's beyond me.

It's one of those things that's a bit of a shame to be honest. Kerbalism is without doubt the best 'realism' orientated mod for KSP but support for it seems to be rare, compared to stuff like Snacks!

 

As someone with little knowledge of modding (I can make Blender models and what not but never delved into Unity or the likes), is there a reason why Kerbalism is so seldom supported vs. a lot of the alternatives? Is Kerbalism not used in comparison to stuff like TAC-LS/USI-LS/Snacks?

 

I'm going to make the assumption it's down to Kerbalism 'background simulation'? It's the only mod I've really came across that makes a consigned effort to simulate things that aren't actively happening on screen, so if there's something I'd suspect is the root cause it's that.

 

A lot of your mods are really spot on with Kerbalism, I'm currently using Moldavite Machines/Sterling along with Nertea's entire Near Future - Far Future mods. That said, Simple Construction does indeed claim to somewhat support Kerbalism, so that could be worth a shot.

[Bizobinator]

Hello! I'm playing with connected living space; is it possible to set up my ships in such a way that I only need one "storm cellar" (referencing the part ;D) part with max shielding? I.e., all other habitable parts don't have shielding (covered by active shields), one part has max shielding that I shuffle everyone into during storms?

[king of nowhere]

10 hours ago, Bizobinator said:

Hello! I'm playing with connected living space; is it possible to set up my ships in such a way that I only need one "storm cellar" (referencing the part ;D) part with max shielding? I.e., all other habitable parts don't have shielding (covered by active shields), one part has max shielding that I shuffle everyone into during storms?

no, the mod doesn't support that; it will always take the average exposure among all living parts.

that said, you don't need shielding for storms. rather, storms are so severe, interplanetary trips are very hard if you are counting only on shielding - though you may be able to get to Duna or Eve on a period of low solar activity.

the protection against solar storms is to put some other part, generally a fuel tank, between the sun and the crew cabin. the game checks for that, and models the use of other parts for shielding. again, it averages all the habitable parts of the ship, so make sure there are no living spaces hanging on the sides.

for example, here you can see that construction made of short, squat tanks being used as a sunshield. notice how radiation is over 5 rad/h, while habitat radiation is still 3 mrad/h (that's just the background, didn't have the active shield available). notice also how I made the sunshield larger on the sides where i'm hanging those pods, to keep the pods covered.

shielding can reduce damage from background radiation, though an active shield is generally better for that.

the most important use of shielding is for crossing radiation belts. there is no other way to reduce damage when coming close to jool. for most other uses, shielding can be neglected

Edited October 14 by king of nowhere

[Bizobinator]

Excellent. Thank you!

Do you know if the rotating space station parts (gravity rings) count as "on the side", or do they get modeled as just their centerline footprint?

[king of nowhere]

5 hours ago, Bizobinator said:

Excellent. Thank you!

Do you know if the rotating space station parts (gravity rings) count as "on the side", or do they get modeled as just their centerline footprint?

no idea on that. i've always covered them entirely

[mtbikoff]

On 7/23/2024 at 9:18 PM, r0teRakete said:

Yea.. after browsing my kerbalism files/cfgs without finding any thing interesting or changing anything. I though i might just play with this bug and see how far my ship would take me.  

Booted up ksp, jumped on my ship, and:

RDU electricity consumption, gone.

Nice, here we go! So next step in my Manned Duna Mission would be docking the Lander.

Lander docked: RDU consumption is back 

 

I left the game to main menu, reloaded the just saved game and: RDU cunsumtion, gone....

 

 

So, if anyone runs into Ghost RDU electricity consumtion, reloading helps.

 

Facing same problems with PPD-10 and other habitats. Ghost RDUs turn on after rendezvous.

There's a pull request and possible fix on Github, but I have not tested it yet. Trying to figure out how to make a custom Kerbalism build with it...