Kerbal Space Program 1.10: "Shared Horizons” Grand Discussion Thread

[Bej Kerman]

4 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

6 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Perfectly Acceptable? I give up, you're just going to keep arguing that 2k textures aren't a sign of something being wrong.

The effort it would take to fix the 2k textures doesn't justify the amount of time, you are talking about an artist for a period of time to redo each texture, at least 1 qa person to go over, etc.

Is it perfect?  No, and it will never be perfect.  Is it good enough ?  Absolutely

I never said redo the entire texture. Is it hard to go into GIMP and downscale the textures? 

[linuxgurugamer]

1 minute ago, Bej Kerman said:

I never said redo the entire texture. Is it hard to go into GIMP and downscale the textures? 

There is a lot more to making a change like this than just going into GIMP and downscaling the textures.  There would be a significant amount of QA involved to ensure that the downscaled textures don't cause any visual issues, in many different circumstances.  This isn't a game you are making a quick change for your friend; this game goes out to >2 million players, each of whom runs a different computer, different OS, different memory, different graphics cards, etc.  And if they don't do that QA and something is off, even for a small percentage, then everyone starts jumping on them saying "why couldn't you test it better?"

It's just not worth it from a business point of view, and the impact to the game is so miniscule that it's not worth even looking at it

[Bej Kerman]

11 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

11 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

I never said redo the entire texture. Is it hard to go into GIMP and downscale the textures? 

There is a lot more to making a change like this than just going into GIMP and downscaling the textures.  There would be a significant amount of QA involved to ensure that the downscaled textures don't cause any visual issues, in many different circumstances.  This isn't a game you are making a quick change for your friend; this game goes out to >2 million players, each of whom runs a different computer, different OS, different memory, different graphics cards, etc.  And if they don't do that QA and something is off, even for a small percentage, then everyone starts jumping on them saying "why couldn't you test it better?"

It's just not worth it from a business point of view, and the impact to the game is so miniscule that it's not worth even looking at it

Yeah, leave it to Squad to make seemingly small mistakes that pile on and can't be fixed because it takes too long to even just look at a chair alone. I think I'll just stop updating KSP 1 because it kills my PC, none if its performance issues will be fixed and mods will break. Cya when KSP 2 comes out with competent devs that get stuff right first time.

[linuxgurugamer]

41 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

Yeah, leave it to Squad to make seemingly small mistakes that pile on and can't be fixed because it takes too long to even just look at a chair alone. I think I'll just stop updating KSP 1 because it kills my PC, none if its performance issues will be fixed and mods will break. Cya when KSP 2 comes out with competent devs that get stuff right first time.

Hmmm.  Seems to me that Squad has been doing a fairly continuous job of slowing improving the performance over time.  They have been spending their time efficiently, fixing the major bottlenecks, such as the multiple camera issue which they fixed in 1.8.1.   Size of graphics files really doesn't impact the performance the way other things do.

I play with over 200 mods on a regular basis, and I have noted a significant improvement in the performance.

It's your choice, but I have to wonder what you are basing your comments on regarding performance.  I also wonder about the PC you are playing it on.  Is it possible that you have a so-called "potato" system which barely meets the spec?  

[dok_377]

The flags add an unnecessary amounts of body lift onto the vehicle.

I don't think this is how it should be. I just spent two days figuring out why my capsule refused to work properly, and when I try to get rid of flags as a last ditch effort, this is it.

https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/25751


Update: well, at least I figured out how my capsule works with all the flags on it. Body lift on one part is a lot less harmful than body lift on several parts. Updating this post, as it contained some serious salt and I don't want to just excessively wine about stuff without any reason.

Edited July 9, 2020 by dok_377
Removed some salt from the post, nobody wants to see that.

[linuxgurugamer]

23 minutes ago, dok_377 said:

What is the point of flags if you can't even use them properly? Until 1.10.1 releases I'm just going to play something else, that's enough. 

So just don't use them.

Use this instead (if you don't mind using mods):

 

[dok_377]

4 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

So just don't use them.

Use this instead (if you don't mind using mods):

 

I don't mind using some mods, but I definitely mind using that one. My game suffers from pixel lights enough as it is, I will not add something that relies on additional projections and draw calls to work. And on top of that, am I wrong to assume that I can use some newly added feature of the game and expect it to work without any problems straight from the box? I think I should at least have that right as a paying customer. If not, then we have a problem. 

[Bej Kerman]

6 minutes ago, dok_377 said:

19 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

So just don't use them.

Use this instead (if you don't mind using mods):

 

I don't mind using some mods, but I definitely mind using that one. My game suffers from pixel lights enough as it is, I will not add something that relies on additional projections and draw calls to work. And on top of that, am I wrong to assume that I can use some newly added feature of the game and expect it to work without any problems straight from the box? I think I should at least have that right as a paying customer. If not, then we have a problem. 

It can't have been a mistake to give the decals an aero model.

[linuxgurugamer]

8 minutes ago, dok_377 said:

I don't mind using some mods, but I definitely mind using that one. My game suffers from pixel lights enough as it is, I will not add something that relies on additional projections and draw calls to work. And on top of that, am I wrong to assume that I can use some newly added feature of the game and expect it to work without any problems straight from the box? I think I should at least have that right as a paying customer. If not, then we have a problem. 

Not disagreeing, just pointing out one of several alternatives

[dok_377]

2 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

It can't have been a mistake to give the decals an aero model.

And the magnetometer that weighs half a ton instead of 50 kilos isn't a mistake either (it's confirmed by the devs). You underestimate Squad when it comes to mistakes. The flags are essentially some pieces of paint that you add to the craft. You think it should have an aero model? I disagree. And even if it is the intended behavior, the amount of lift should be negligible or at least a lot smaller than it is right now. 

4 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Not disagreeing, just pointing out one of several alternatives

I appreciate that. 

[Bej Kerman]

56 minutes ago, dok_377 said:

1 hour ago, Bej Kerman said:

It can't have been a mistake to give the decals an aero model.

And the magnetometer that weighs half a ton instead of 50 kilos isn't a mistake either (it's confirmed by the devs). You underestimate Squad when it comes to mistakes. The flags are essentially some pieces of paint that you add to the craft. You think it should have an aero model? I disagree. And even if it is the intended behavior, the amount of lift should be negligible or at least a lot smaller than it is right now. 

It dazzles me that Squad hasn't replaced their team with modders yet.

[RealKerbal3x]

7 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

It dazzles me that Squad hasn't replaced their team with modders yet.

What I find interesting is the difference in opinions people have about SQUAD vs modders. If a modder makes a mistake (for example, making a part too massive, like SQUAD did in 1.10), then people will courteously report it and (usually) won't get mad or annoyed. But if SQUAD makes the same mistake, then people often get irrationally angry at them.

Is it the fact that the developers are working for a paycheck changing people's behaviour like this? Because if the whole of the SQUAD development team was replaced by modders, then they would be working for a paycheck as well, probably meaning they would face the same treatment. In fact, some of the developers are also modders in their free time - so why are we polite when reporting a bug in one of their mods, but rude when reporting a bug with their game? I'm confused as to what it is that makes people behave differently. SQUAD's developers are people just as much as modders are.

[MechBFP]

30 minutes ago, RealKerbal3x said:

What I find interesting is the difference in opinions people have about SQUAD vs modders. If a modder makes a mistake (for example, making a part too massive, like SQUAD did in 1.10), then people will courteously report it and (usually) won't get mad or annoyed. But if SQUAD makes the same mistake, then people often get irrationally angry at them.

Is it the fact that the developers are working for a paycheck changing people's behaviour like this? Because if the whole of the SQUAD development team was replaced by modders, then they would be working for a paycheck as well, probably meaning they would face the same treatment. In fact, some of the developers are also modders in their free time - so why are we polite when reporting a bug in one of their mods, but rude when reporting a bug with their game? I'm confused as to what it is that makes people behave differently. SQUAD's developers are people just as much as modders are.

It’s just entitlement. With modders they usually can’t find any (logical anyway) reason to have entitlement. 
However with the game they paid $10, so.... *shrug*. 

[RealKerbal3x]

17 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

It’s just entitlement. With modders they usually can’t find any (logical anyway) reason to have entitlement. 
However with the game they paid $10, so.... *shrug*. 

Huh. Yeah, that makes sense.

So really, replacing the whole dev team with modders wouldn't change anything. I rest my case.

Edited July 9, 2020 by RealKerbal3x

[Lisias]

There's a merge error on line 276 from the file <KSP_110>/GameData/SquadExpansion/Serenity/Parts/Robotics/RotorEngine_02.cfg:

		RESOURCE
		{
			name = LiquidFuel
			rate = 0.01
			resourceFlowMode = STAGE_STACK_FLOW_BALANCE	
==  </ HERE, this is line 276>
		}	
		RESOURCE

I wonder if this can be related to some issue on KSP? How KSP handles errors on the Config File? On the bright side, it appears to be the only syntax error on the whole set config files.

Hey, @SQUAD, I made a python tool for checking and reading config files in a couple hours (adapting from the already existent source from Taniwha's io_object_mu), it's not hard and the time has already paid itself (and it works on anything that runs Python).

I suggest implementing checks for every config file for obvious errors as a Unit Test before releases, typos and merging errors happens every time - mainly on teams running against the clock (this is not the first time, right?)

[Space Nerd]

I just launched my first rocket in 1.10, and I found my AP keeps increasing even when I shut off my engine, is this a known bug?

This happened when I'm coasting through the upper atmosphere but not in orbit

[RealKerbal3x]

1 minute ago, Space Nerd said:

I just launched my first rocket in 1.10, and I found my AP keeps increasing even when I shut off my engine, is this a known bug?

Are you sure you're definitely not accelerating in any way after you turn off your engine? SRBs not firing?

This bug hasn't happened to me, and no one has reported it to the bug tracker. So I think this has only happened to you.

[Space Nerd]

I pressed X several times but the AP keeps increasing.

(My rocket only has 1 wolfhound engine, it's an upper stage.)

[RealKerbal3x]

1 minute ago, Space Nerd said:

I pressed X several times but the AP keeps increasing.

(My rocket only has 1 wolfhound engine, it's an upper stage.)

Maybe try quicksaving and then quickloading, or maybe just revert to launch and see if it still happens.

[Space Nerd]

The rocket does have some small winglets, but I don't think that's the cause.

4 minutes ago, RealKerbal3x said:

Maybe try quicksaving and then quickloading, or maybe just revert to launch and see if it still happens.

I will try that if that still happens on the next launch.

Or maybe it's a mod problem.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Space Nerd

[RealKerbal3x]

Just now, Space Nerd said:

The rocket does have some small winglets, but I don't think that's the cause.

I will try that if that still happens on the next launch.

Or maybe it's a mod problem.

If you suspect a bug, the best way to confirm it is to test in a mod-free install. So if it happens again, temporarily remove all of your mods and test to see if it's your mods or not.

[RIPperSVK]

The issue with increased drag behind engine plates (https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/25712) makes it much harder to take off from Eve - my Eve lander tested before the update is not able to get to orbit anymore. Hoping for a patch, or I'll have to make a rescue mission in true Kerbal style

[klgraham1013]

23 hours ago, RealKerbal3x said:

Is it the fact that the developers are working for a paycheck changing people's behaviour like this?

Well.  Yes.  Usually if someone is being paid to do something, there's a level of quality expected.  I hope you hold people you hire to that standard. 

[Lord Aurelius]

Issues like this are usually the result of process failures (like the failure to use a syntax checker for the config file with the merge, and possibly a deficient process for verifying part values in game match those intended, which is also known as requirement verification).

Mistakes happen and I don't blame the devs, but this is pretty basic industry standard stuff so it's surprising these very obvious issues weren't caught before release. It's not like it's a weird edge case or complex system behavior.

[RealKerbal3x]

1 minute ago, klgraham1013 said:

Well.  Yes.  Usually if someone is being paid to do something, there's a level of quality expected.  I hope you hold people you hire to that standard. 

I understand that, but what I was struggling to understand was how people generally react in a significantly more positive manner to what modders do versus SQUAD, even if what SQUAD puts out is higher quality than anything available in a mod. I guess, as @MechBFP said, it's just entitlement - people paid money for the game, which makes them feel entitled to complain more about it, regardless of the actual quality.

I won't deny that SQUAD has put out some low quality stuff before (*cough* 1.4.x *cough*), but the game has been getting consistently better since then, and I'm tired of people constantly bashing them and saying that the modders should be in charge. Ultimately it wouldn't change anything.