Kerbal Space Program 2 to be released in 2022 [Discussion Thread]

[Bej Kerman]

5 hours ago, Master39 said:

IMOH a "sim" is actually less than a game, it's just a mechanism, a feature on which you can build a game on.

In my opinion humble, I agree. It's a game built on a simulation. How can we argue if it's one or the other when it combines elements? Might as well be arguing over the dilemma of the wetness of water.

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

How can we argue if it's one or the other when it combines elements? Might as well be arguing over the dilemma of the wetness of water.

It make sense to make a distinction other than to be elitists? I don't think that a guy who built a A-10 cockpit in his garage to "sim" in DCS is all that different than a hardcore Factorio/ONI/Kerbal player as for "seriousness" of their respective hobbies. 

[shdwlrd]

7 hours ago, Master39 said:

IMOH a "sim" is actually less than a game, it's just a mechanism, a feature on which you can build a game on. A "pure" simulator is a D&D manual with no campaing, master or players included.

I find it funny that you used the broken systems for D&D for an example. But since I can't think of another gaming system that isn't broken in some way or another, I'll digress. 

So a "sim" is just the rules for the game  err, I should say world and it's up to whomever to decide what you can do and how it can be done.

Edited December 2, 2020 by shdwlrd

[Bej Kerman]

17 minutes ago, Master39 said:

1 hour ago, Bej Kerman said:

How can we argue if it's one or the other when it combines elements? Might as well be arguing over the dilemma of the wetness of water.

It make sense to make a distinction other than to be elitists? I don't think that a guy who built a A-10 cockpit in his garage to "sim" in DCS is all that different than a hardcore Factorio/ONI/Kerbal player as for "seriousness" of their respective hobbies. 

And here we go... Is water wet? Can water touch water? Is that what makes it wet, or is water dry on its own?

[K^2]

You guys are all wrong. A sim is the collective term for the constraints solver and integrator, as well as prediction miss correction for an on-line game, inside the physics engine of pretty much any game.

Or maybe it's just one of these words that changes meaning depending on context. But I prefer to just say you're all wrong, because that makes me feel better about myself. 

[Meecrob]

Nah, c'mon guys,  a sim is when you do something for fun when most of the world would only do it if they got  paid at the end of two weeks.

[DerkyJerkyWreaksHavoc]

On 11/5/2020 at 12:17 PM, UomoCapra said:

Hello, all.

Gonna rip the band-aid off fast here: Kerbal Space Program 2 will release in 2022 instead of fall 2021. I
know this is frustrating, especially considering that this isn’t the first time we’ve adjusted our schedule.

We knew we were taking on an immense technical and creative challenge when we started this project.
We’ve heard time and again from this community that quality is paramount, and we feel the same way.
It’s not enough to deliver a bunch of new features – those features have to be woven together into a
stable, polished whole. We’re creating a reliable foundation on which players and modders alike can
build for another decade or more. That involves solving problems that have never been solved before,
and that takes time.

We’ve got a team of talented people working every challenge from every angle, and because I’m lucky
enough to get a front row seat, I can see the huge leaps we’re making. It’s killing us how much of this we
have to keep under our hats until the game is released. We can’t express how much we're looking
forward to soaking up all your reactions and discoveries on that day.

In the meantime, we’ll keep posting cool images here to give you a taste of what’s in store. We will also
continue to release feature videos and developer diaries that go more in-depth on specific areas of the
game, and hopefully those will help 2021 to go by a little faster. Stay tuned for a new dev diary coming
soon, as well as a new Feature Video this winter.

Thanks as always for sharing our commitment to making KSP2 as great as we all know it has to be.

-Nate Simpson

Ok

1. Where'd you get the band-aid?

2. its not frustrating, its real life!

3. Quality is Paramount? True

4. Why cant i get a front row seat? im all the way in the Economic class!

5. Soaking up all the reactions?  Well, Reactions ARE Relative... are we in SpongeBob SquarePants where we soak up water and expel notifications?

6.  2021 go by a little faster? Now Where did i put my TimeWarp 4000?

7. Cool images? for all i know, Cool is ALSO Relative.

8. Dev diary? NOICE! 

9. Sharing commitment? I haven't done a single thing for KSP2 except for overreacting and making Memes

10. Ok im done

[Mikenike]

@Nate Simpson, we understand. Take your time, more time to play KSP1!!

[DerkyJerkyWreaksHavoc]

im praying there isn't another delay... but take your time and do your best!

[Alexoff]

It looks like users are not against the delay and will not find fault with the quality, which means you can reschedule the game again or twice

[HebaruSan]

Has anyone  assembled a graph like this for KSP2 yet?  I would try, but I'm not certain I could track down all the previous announcements...

[HebaruSan]

4 hours ago, HebaruSan said:

Has anyone  assembled a graph like this for KSP2 yet?  I would try, but I'm not certain I could track down all the previous announcements...

Alright, here's my attempt, courtesy of Libreoffice. I tried to borrow the formatting conventions of the original for ease of comprehension, except that I didn't project forward into the future, and since the announcements have announced date ranges, I drew one red line for the earliest date and one for the latest. Imagine that there's a shaded area in between them.

[K^2]

Based on the same intersection test, KSP2 was released about a decade ago.

But yeah, that's why you don't use regression on raw data. You always need to have a model in mind.

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Alexoff said:

It looks like users are not against the delay and will not find fault with the quality, which means you can reschedule the game again or twice

Looks like most of us already experienced what it means to have early access to an unfinished game in the last 8 years, one that, even after the supposed 1.0 "the game is finished" update still has half of the textures and 2/3 of the gamemodes being the same temporary placeholders since when they were first implemented.

I love KSP, I'm still playing it, and if I'm to switch to a sequel I want it to be a finished and properly developed product, not another good but quirky experiment that grows chaotically without a plan but following the whims of the Devs and the community.

[pandaman]

46 minutes ago, Master39 said:

Looks like most of us already experienced what it means to have early access to an unfinished game in the last 8 years, one that, even after the supposed 1.0 "the game is finished" update still has half of the textures and 2/3 of the gamemodes being the same temporary placeholders since when they were first implemented

The trouble with KSP1, I think, is that the decision to go to 'Beta' then 'Release' properly with v1.0  in such a short soace of time were purely marketing based, and not connected with the state of the game.  I know they could have stayed in Alpha or Beta indefinitely, which would not have been good either, but a slightly longer Beta period to decide and pin down what v1.0 should be may have been more sensble.  But Squad were not an experienced games company either.

As for KSP2,  I also expect the release version to be in a finished and polished state.  No doubt there will be 'fixes' and 'updates' to correct and tweak/improve things a bit, but i doubt very much it will be on anything like the scale of KSP1. 

KSP2 DLC, on the other hand, I would fully expect some. For stuff like new solar systems, or maybe whole new parts packs in a different style.  As such these would be true add-ins to the base game, and not so much 'additional features to core gameplay we never thought about, or couldn't do, before'.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, pandaman said:

The trouble with KSP1, I think, is that the decision to go to 'Beta' then 'Release' properly with v1.0  in such a short soace of time were purely marketing based, and not connected with the state of the game.  I know they could have stayed in Alpha or Beta indefinitely, which would not have been good either, but a slightly longer Beta period to decide and pin down what v1.0 should be may have been more sensble.  But Squad were not an experienced games company either.

As for KSP2,  I also expect the release version to be in a finished and polished state.  No doubt there will be 'fixes' and 'updates' to correct and tweak/improve things a bit, but i doubt very much it will be on anything like the scale of KSP1. 

KSP2 DLC, on the other hand, I would fully expect some. For stuff like new solar systems, or maybe whole new parts packs in a different style.  As such these would be true add-ins to the base game, and not so much 'additional features to core gameplay we never thought about, or couldn't do, before'.

Basically the difference between an indie project and a product backed by an established publisher.

[Alexoff]

1 hour ago, Master39 said:

I want it to be a finished and properly developed product

As far as I know, the owner of KSP 1 and KSP 2 are the same, but KSP 1 is still full of bugs that appear faster than they are fixed. Apparently this issue is not a priority for Take2. But since you work as a free lawyer for KSP 2, and you still believe and hope, then for sure the game will not be like Fallout 76 or Star Citizen, and even more so not as KSP 1.

[The Aziz]

43 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

As far as I know, the owner of KSP 1 and KSP 2 are the same, but KSP 1 is still full of bugs that appear faster than they are fixed. Apparently this issue is not a priority for Take2. But since you work as a free lawyer for KSP 2, and you still believe and hope, then for sure the game will not be like Fallout 76 or Star Citizen, and even more so not as KSP 1.

Fixing bugs hidden in millions lines of code cumulated over almost a decade may be slightly harder than squishing bugs that appear during the development of related features.

[Guest]

21 hours ago, Alexoff said:

As far as I know, the owner of KSP 1 and KSP 2 are the same, but KSP 1 is still full of bugs that appear faster than they are fixed. Apparently this issue is not a priority for Take2.

The development story of the two games is exactly the opposite, I'll not explain for the nth time the differences between an indie game bought by a publisher after most of the development happened and a new game built from scratch by the same publisher.

21 hours ago, Alexoff said:

for sure the game will not be like Fallout 76

Fallout 76: Bethesda gave to BGS Austin (a new bought studio called Battlecry before acquisition) the job of putting Quake netcode into Fallout 4 version of Creation Engine with some help from Id Software.

Everyone knowing a bit of what the Creation Engine is and how it works knows how absurd the whole idea is and how miraculous is that they even managed to get something to work.

The result is a failure of an MMO (just like any of the current biggest MMO on the market, like ESO and FFXIV, for example) that managed to become a mediocre one with updates.

While I still have some hope for Stellaris, BGS going too far out of their comfort zone with experimental projects like F76 and new IPs like Stellaris is probably why the whole Zenimax conglomerate is being bought out by Microsoft. 

In hindsight they could have developed a whole new TES and Fallout by the number sequels at this point while developing that Stellaris idea on the side instead as of their main project, but that's another story.

21 hours ago, Alexoff said:

or Star Citizen

The main problem with Star Citizen is even easier and farther to KSP 2 than F76 is: people already paid for the game and it's consistently doing so for almost a decade now, meanwhile the whole KSP story happened after it and it's more than likely that KSP2 will reach a 1.0 before release Star Citizen.

KSP2 is going to be a money sink for Private Division all the way up to release, the more time it is in development the better the game has to be to break even and maybe do some profit, that's the exact opposite of Star Citizen's "no more pay to win ships for real money after release" promise that incentives the studio to work on as many ships as they can possibly fit in the game now (instead of developing the core mechanics) and delay the release as far in the future as possible.

Meanwhile while those 2  unrelated examples you managed to make were happening, T2 managed to make: Borderlands 2, Borderlands Pre-sequel and Borderlands 3 with their 2K label; release GTAV half a dozen times and make RDR2 with their Rockstar label and, with Private Division, publish Obsidian's Outer Worlds. And I'm limiting myself only to the ok-ish commercial successes I can think of on the top of my mind.

 

Yes they're greedy "amazing" persons but they're competent ones at that, and as difficult KSP is to make work I think that they can absolutely afford experts to make today what a Mexican Multimedia company with no prior experience in game developing managed to pull off 8 years ago.

If you really think Fallout 76 or Star Citizen are relevant examples you should totally stop using rage culture Youtubers as your source of information about the gaming industry.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Master39
The censorship system on this site is... amazing.

[DerkyJerkyWreaksHavoc]

On 12/5/2020 at 10:38 AM, Master39 said:

The development story of the two games is exactly the opposite, I'll not explain for the nth time the differences between an indie game bought by a publisher after most of the development happened and a new game built from scratch by the same publisher.

Fallout 76: Bethesda gave to BGS Austin (a new bought studio called Battlecry before acquisition) the job of putting Quake netcode into Fallout 4 version of Creation Engine with some help from Id Software.

Everyone knowing a bit of what the Creation Engine is and how it works knows how absurd the whole idea is and how miraculous is that they even managed to get something to work.

The result is a failure of an MMO (just like any of the current biggest MMO on the market, like ESO and FFXIV, for example) that managed to become a mediocre one with updates.

While I still have some hope for Stellaris, BGS going too far out of their comfort zone with experimental projects like F76 and new IPs like Stellaris is probably why the whole Zenimax conglomerate is being bought out by Microsoft. 

In hindsight they could have developed a whole new TES and Fallout by the number sequels at this point while developing that Stellaris idea on the side instead as of their main project, but that's another story.

The main problem with Star Citizen is even easier and farther to KSP 2 than F76 is: people already paid for the game and it's consistently doing so for almost a decade now, meanwhile the whole KSP story happened after it and it's more than likely that KSP2 will reach a 1.0 before release Star Citizen.

KSP2 is going to be a money sink for Private Division all the way up to release, the more time it is in development the better the game has to be to break even and maybe do some profit, that's the exact opposite of Star Citizen's "no more pay to win ships for real money after release" promise that incentives the studio to work on as many ships as they can possibly fit in the game now (instead of developing the core mechanics) and delay the release as far in the future as possible.

Meanwhile while those 2  unrelated examples you managed to make were happening, T2 managed to make: Borderlands 2, Borderlands Pre-sequel and Borderlands 3 with their 2K label; release GTAV half a dozen times and make RDR2 with their Rockstar label and, with Private Division, publish Obsidian's Outer Worlds. And I'm limiting myself only to the ok-ish commercial successes I can think of on the top of my mind.

 

Yes they're greedy "amazing" persons but they're competent ones at that, and as difficult KSP is to make work I think that they can absolutely afford experts to make today what a Mexican Multimedia company with no prior experience in game developing managed to pull off 8 years ago.

If you really think Fallout 76 or Star Citizen are relevant examples you should totally stop using rage culture Youtubers as your source of information about the gaming industry.

Sorry i haven't been in the forums in a while. i had a lot of forum errors where everything is distorted and blank and later it showed me this Very Accurate message below:

Quote

"

Update in progress

We're sorry, this web site is unavailable while an update is in progress.

You can try again by clicking the button below, or try again later.

Try again

Site Owner
This message means an upgrade is in progress. If this is not correct, try visiting the upgrade process again (usually /admin/upgrade) and choose either continue or restart. If the upgrade shows nothing to upgrade, visit the AdminCP and run the Support tool. You can also contact Invision Community support for assistance."

Me: Wow! that's some hot garbage right there! Nice updating though!

 

On 12/5/2020 at 10:38 AM, Master39 said:

The censorship system on this site is... amazing.

I kNoW riGHt? iTS sO aMAziNG! iTs liKE ROBloX CeNSorShIp SYsteM!*

*not quite as good as Roblox censorship system but way less annoying. Roblox has all the dumb hashtag censors that (Thank god) this forum doesn't have! |:D

[Kerminator K-100]

On 12/5/2020 at 10:38 AM, Master39 said:

On 12/5/2020 at 9:23 AM, Alexoff said:

for sure the game will not be like Fallout 76

 

You should watch the Fall of 76 by the Internet Historian. Its really informative and tells you exactly where they went wrong.

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Kerminator1000
Added video for convenience

[Kerminator K-100]

On 12/4/2020 at 5:49 PM, HebaruSan said:

Has anyone  assembled a graph like this for KSP2 yet?  I would try, but I'm not certain I could track down all the previous announcements...

I gave it a try but we don't have enough data. Also the graph predicts that KSP 2 will never be released and already was released in 2018.

The black line represents the past( I had it there so it didn't hide the trailer and first planned date)

[Multivac]

1 hour ago, Kerminator1000 said:

I gave it a try but we don't have enough data. Also the graph predicts that KSP 2 will never be released and already was released in 2018.

The black line represents the past( I had it there so it didn't hide the trailer and first planned date)

Now I want this graphed onto a space-time diagram that shows light cones, and temporal distortion as we approach light speed. Surely there's some way we can fiddle with relativity and gravity wells to get KSP2 to come out sooner in our reference frame!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Kerminator1000 said:

You should watch the Fall of 76 by the Internet Historian. Its really informative and tells you exactly where they went wrong.

Honestly I found that video disappointing, he spent less than 1 minute talking about the development and pre-production and the remaining 24 minutes in talking about the post-release mess.

Anyway it proves my point even more, Take 2 never failed so spectacularly in doing an easy cash-grab, or any other type of game. 

[Dr. Kerbal]

Well Please add this too!

Why doesn’t KSP have cameras. That because not many people think about them. Well, we need cameras in Kerbal Space Program.  Cameras will server an important role in tow categories. Science and photos. Cameras would be used to gain science by taking pictures. Here pictures would take a picture on what’s in their view. If a planet is in its view it will focus on that planet and scanning generating science. 

Example: The camera is pointed at Jool. After a few seconds of taking pictures the camera would then have a message with some science points.  It would say (this is an example) The giant green gas giant Jool is quite beautiful and has many layers of the atmosphere. It can see that the gas giant has many storms. The storms are very large. The guys at R and D can learn something about Jool.

The data for this part though would be huge! 45% more than the average data the Gravity experiment needs to send the information back to Kerbin. At the R and D or somewhere else at the KCS you can see what photos the camera caught. You could also use the science and gain more using the space labs. You could research them in space!

The cameras would also be able to see in Inferred, Gamma, X-Ray, Ultraviolet, and the regular spectrum we see. You can switch to this modes and get science from each mode! Here is an example:

Example: The camera can sense that the Sun is really hot! Better not touch it. It would good with fried eggs. Mmmmm.....

Different modes would cary in science and data. And it would be allowed to research the, more in space. However in the tech tree there would be tree variations of this. A small one, medium one, and a large one. Each one would be able to do certain things. Chart:

This shows what echo camera can do.

Small Camera: Can only take pictures in regular color.

Medium Sized Camera: Can take pictures in regular color, X- Ray, and Ultravoilet.

Large Camera: The pictures are at high resolution and it can take pictures in X Ray, ultraviolet, regular color, gamma ray, and Microwaves. Basically the entire spectrum.

 

The cameras aren’t just for scene though. You can also see the solo system from the camera’s view, You can change at what the camera looks at too! It’s can look in different directions and you can see in other spectrums! You could take awesome photos and picture with this! These cameras would also be able to simulate the cameras view of passing Jool or any other planet or moon.

However this camera will use a lot of electricity. So informer to use this camera you will need a lot of electricity units.

 

Developers of KSP and KSP2, please add this feature and part! And since a console guy though of it, can console get it sooner than normal too! *wink*