JadeOfMaar Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) Sinking isn't so hard anymore, but now it's also more perilous... Spoiler This tiny yet powerful pair of mods, aimed at undersea engineers, does what no submarine/ballast plugin has done yet: It addresses the problem of all parts having maximum buoyancy and the same part pressure limit. ADVISORY: It may bloat your MM cache rather fast, as does Rational Resources. Depending on a modest array of characteristics expected of parts (primarily their categories, then certain keywords in their titles or certain modules or resources they hold) they are dynamically granted with buoyancy ratings. It becomes far easier to use normal Ore tanks as ballast, and adds to the sinkability of submarines powered by ballast plugin mods. How to use: Be mindful of the new stat ratio: average buoyancy vs mass. To keep things afloat, make sure that your ship contains more of parts that hold crew, are lifting surfaces, or are thermal category (the stock heatshields and radiators are pretty spacious and flat, and so, should be rather buoyant). And also make sure that your ship isn't very massive. Expect to sink at any time. Wings remain the most buoyant thing. The more you have, the more you float. Ore tanks are the least buoyant thing. The more you have, the faster you sink. (See screenshots) By default you'll always experience the first half of this mod: Rational Buoyancy. But to experience the second half, Rational Pressure, you must go into Difficulty Settings -> Advanced -> Turn on part pressure limits. If you plan to never use Rational Pressure, delete its config file and save your MM cache some weight. Included is a Cheat config that you can edit just 2 simple numbers in if you feel that the new buoyancy and pressure ratings are rather tight for you. Complementary mods or strategies that you'll want to prepare: Low-mass floatation devices and devices that enable you to thrust upward, to quickly shed mass, or to otherwise lift when splashed will become very important very fast. Lifting body science or resource return vehicles. Except for science labs, all science parts will very easily sink. Boats and subs of all sizes, even for the EVA kerbal as the kerbal can just barely float now in a stock game. Adding any mass (like life support) may cause him or her to start sinking. Known issues: My personal experience so far: your ship's average center of buoyancy may go anywhere now, and a submarine design may easily become heavy on one end with no regard to where the CoM or CoL are, so "buoyancy symmetry" or "buoyancy offset" may be a very important new thing to watch out for, and if possible, a mod will need to be made that can compute and show the ship's center of buoyancy. When you sink in lava... Recommended mods: KSP Ground Effect (not compatible with FAR). Any planet pack with abundant or exotic oceans. Includes special support for: Kerbal Planetary Base Systems Stockalike Station Parts Redux WBI Pathfinder (namely, its Castillo parts) DOWNLOAD :: SpaceDock :: GitHub License: MIT Edited February 13, 2021 by JadeOfMaar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballisticfox0 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Neat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I love ksp Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Good！！！ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AG-cs Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) " When you sink in lava... " Really good. These demonstration pictures are also very beautiful. You solved it tastefully. The quality you are used to. Edited February 10, 2021 by AG-cs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KallangoVerde Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Hello ... I liked the mod proposal but I have a question ... PRAÇA: Ryzen 5 3400G Cooler Stock Asus Prime A320M-K 8Gb 2666Mhz Single RAM (I will still buy a kit to activate Dual) HD 1Tb 500W power supply Will my PC have performance problems with this mod? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maple Kerman Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Congrats on the release! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Prates Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Intersmesting! One doubt: so ore tanks can INTAKE water to induce sinking? Or all buoyancy stats are permanent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeOfMaar Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share Posted February 11, 2021 11 hours ago, KallangoVerde said: Hello ... I liked the mod proposal but I have a question ... Will my PC have performance problems with this mod? No, there is no performance cost. Your KSP will only take a bit longer to startup because MM will have more work to do. 6 hours ago, Daniel Prates said: Intersmesting! One doubt: so ore tanks can INTAKE water to induce sinking? Or all buoyancy stats are permanent? Buoyancy stats are permanent. What you will see is what you should expect from stock. You can make any tank intake its own resource to induce sinking, but patching tanks to do that is out of my scope. You still have to get a ballast plugin mod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemeac Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 This looks great! This is definitely an under utilised aspect of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyRender Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 You are the hero that KSP submariners need. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KallangoVerde Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 19 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said: Não, não há custo de desempenho. Seu KSP levará apenas um pouco mais de tempo para inicializar porque o MM terá mais trabalho a fazer. As estatísticas de flutuabilidade são permanentes. O que você verá é o que você deve esperar do estoque. Você pode tornar qualquer entrada de tanque seu próprio recurso para induzir o afundamento, mas remendar tanques para fazer isso está fora do meu escopo. Você ainda precisa obter um mod de plugin de lastro. thank you!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misguided Kerbal Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Excellent! Are these compatible with the USI floats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theonegalen Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) @JadeOfMaar I had the same question about USI floats and Comfortable Landing as Misguided Kerbal. (I'll be trying out CL soon in my install) Edited March 9, 2021 by theonegalen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beetlecat Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) This is pretty great! At first try, this seems like cure to FAR's concrete/molasses-like water interactions, but now my floatplane is gliding across the water as if it were on ice skates, barely slowing down. I'm also utilizing STX's floats, so there may be weird interactions with them. I'll throw some buoyancy their way and see if that makes a difference. [Edit] -- Okay, 1.0 is obviously overkill, but showed how easily it could be tweaked. @JadeOfMaar -- Does buoyancy interact/ignore the FSbuoyancy module? (Or maybe FAR is breaking it...) Edited March 17, 2021 by Beetlecat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeOfMaar Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 13 hours ago, Beetlecat said: but now my floatplane is gliding across the water as if it were on ice skates, barely slowing down Does buoyancy interact/ignore the FSbuoyancy module? (Or maybe FAR is breaking it...) That... is weird as hell but I like it, lol. Free energy for crossing the Atlantic. I wouldn't know. I don't use Firespitter, and I know about FAR's molasses problem when anything that's splashed is not completely undersea. I don't use FAR either so I can never say I can (or do) support Firespitter or FAR. Well, I can make FAR wing configs but that's not important to water physics. I wonder where @theonegalen went... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beetlecat Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 Supplemental feedback on my experiments last night with Rational HydroDynamics + FAR + Firespitter/SXT The extraneous FSbuoyancy ability of the boat floats in SXT still functions perfectly (likely once I gave them a higher buoyancy than standard 'utility' parts get). It also seemed better behaved in water in general (actually slowing down a bit once thrust was removed). It maybe could be more sluggish to move through, but I'd rather be able to land on water like this than have it grab the plane like jell-o mixed with concrete. Also, the Firespitter buoyancy controls can be used to simulate "lift" out of the water (hydroplaning?) for a float plane on takeoff. Now, if only that buoyancy slider could be tied to an action group or automation... All in all, simply plugging in RH has made water interactions in FAR vastly better, even if it's not directly supported/intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theonegalen Posted March 21, 2021 Share Posted March 21, 2021 (edited) On 3/17/2021 at 10:44 AM, JadeOfMaar said: I wonder where @theonegalen went... Went to visit family for spring break. Comfortable Landing's float parts doesn't seem to work 100 % right out of the box. I've used a custom config in my GameData to lower the bouyancy of certain capsules and increasing that of some of the CL parts, but ultimately, I think it doesn't matter that much. Edited March 21, 2021 by theonegalen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeOfMaar Posted March 21, 2021 Author Share Posted March 21, 2021 @theonegalen Ahhh. I hope you had a great time. And thanks for testing. I guess I should test this myself then. I assume their partial failure is due to my mod? Or just KSP update things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theonegalen Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 On 3/21/2021 at 7:32 AM, JadeOfMaar said: @theonegalen Ahhh. I hope you had a great time. And thanks for testing. I guess I should test this myself then. I assume their partial failure is due to my mod? Or just KSP update things? I'm really not sure. The buoyancy system seems pretty arcane to me. I think the problem might actually be with the CL dll not actually waiting until after inflation to change the effective buoyancy of the parts with built-in floats. I was able to get the behavior I expected from Mk1 pod + CL buoy, but not the Mk1-3 pod with built in floats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxgurugamer Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 @JadeOfMaar Will this work in 1.10.1? I'm working on ComfortableLanding, it was suggested to check this out On 3/22/2021 at 8:08 PM, theonegalen said: I'm really not sure. The buoyancy system seems pretty arcane to me. I think the problem might actually be with the CL dll not actually waiting until after inflation to change the effective buoyancy of the parts with built-in floats. I was able to get the behavior I expected from Mk1 pod + CL buoy, but not the Mk1-3 pod with built in floats. So after the inflation, does it work? And which version of KSP were you using, also, were you using my beta? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxgurugamer Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 Looking at the code, it looks like the bouyancy is changed upon start of inflation On 3/21/2021 at 3:37 AM, theonegalen said: Comfortable Landing's float parts doesn't seem to work 100 % right out of the box. I've used a custom config in my GameData to lower the bouyancy of certain capsules and increasing that of some of the CL parts, but ultimately, I think it doesn't matter that much. It's possible the buoyancy value may need to be changed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeOfMaar Posted April 21, 2021 Author Share Posted April 21, 2021 5 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said: @JadeOfMaar Will this work in 1.10.1? I'm working on ComfortableLanding, it was suggested to check this out It will work. All that it does is edit the values of the usually untouched buoyancy parameter in parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beetlecat Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 4 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said: Looking at the code, it looks like the bouyancy is changed upon start of inflation It's possible the buoyancy value may need to be changed So pre- and post-inflation, there should be two separate values, for sure. The airplane floats in STX retain a slider which works in-flight as I was tinkering with a few posts back. Maybe the mk1-3 config doesn't actually change upon inflation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxgurugamer Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 3 hours ago, Beetlecat said: So pre- and post-inflation, there should be two separate values, for sure. The airplane floats in STX retain a slider which works in-flight as I was tinkering with a few posts back. Maybe the mk1-3 config doesn't actually change upon inflation. I'll make a test build and see what happens when I change the buoyancy setting. 4 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said: It will work. All that it does is edit the values of the usually untouched buoyancy parameter in parts. Ok, cause CKAN doesn't think so :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxgurugamer Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 ComfortableLanding DOES work with this, see thread for details: 15 hours ago, Beetlecat said: So pre- and post-inflation, there should be two separate values, for sure. The airplane floats in STX retain a slider which works in-flight as I was tinkering with a few posts back. Maybe the mk1-3 config doesn't actually change upon inflation. ummm, no. Pre-inflation, there is no effect on the part, Post inflation, it increases the part's buoyancy by 20% @JadeOfMaarRight now ComfortableLanding simply changes a part's buoyancy to 1.2, when inflated. I'm wondering if that's not good with this mod, can you explain how it works? I can easily change it from a simple constant to a multiplier, if that makes sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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