The Skyhawk Science System - a new, realistic tech tree for KSP, now including Kerbalism support - [v1.1.1 - "For Science!" 8/11/22)]

[Gupyzer0]

On 8/31/2024 at 12:56 PM, adriangm44 said:

Is this intended to be merged with Skyhawk Science System and Skyhawk Kerbalism?

I've got some spare time this week, as I got the virus. Is there anything I can help with?

Nope, i'ts standalone, currently working on the dev branches so use those, forget about the master branches for now.

Help? sure, mostly testing stuff atm! things like HabTech2, the Near Future suite of mods and Tantares require some testing, right now I've only done some of the kerbalism configs and put newer parts into the tech tree but currently don't have much spare time to download and test everything.

Btw. BDB is updated to use with the latest dev branch (1.14) as of today. Will make the first release once BDB releases the 1.14 version.

Edited September 2 by Gupyzer0

[adriangm44]

45 minutes ago, Gupyzer0 said:

Nope, i'ts standalone, currently working on the dev branches so use those, forget about the master branches for now.

Help? sure, mostly testing stuff atm! things like HabTech2, the Near Future suite of mods and Tantares require some testing, right now I've only done some of the kerbalism configs and put newer parts into the tech tree but currently don't have much spare time to download and test everything.

Btw. BDB is updated to use with the latest dev branch (1.14) as of today. Will make the first release once BDB releases the 1.14 version.

Great!
I'll try to test those three mods in sandbox mode and try to do different normal playing missions over the week! 

[Gupyzer0]

19 hours ago, adriangm44 said:

Great!
I'll try to test those three mods in sandbox mode and try to do different normal playing missions over the week! 

All right then, waiting for it .

If anyone ele wants to test stuff go ahead.

Don't know if perhaps is a good idea to start a dev thread.

[MrSnappyTurtles]

https://imgur.com/a/xpF4fQ1

This is how my tree looks.
I feel like somethings wrong

[Gupyzer0]

55 minutes ago, MrSnappyTurtles said:

https://imgur.com/a/xpF4fQ1

This is how my tree looks.
I feel like somethings wrong

Weird ... Seems as if you have more than one tech tree installed.

[MrSnappyTurtles]

https://imgur.com/a/UnKhr7Z

That is my mod list

 I went over it a few times and I cant find anything that looks like another tree

[DeadJohn]

16 hours ago, MrSnappyTurtles said:

https://imgur.com/a/UnKhr7Z

That is my mod list

 I went over it a few times and I cant find anything that looks like another tree

You've got Community Tech Tree installed. I don't think CTT is a dependency for Skyhawk.

[MrSnappyTurtles]

8 hours ago, DeadJohn said:

You've got Community Tech Tree installed. I don't think CTT is a dependency for Skyhawk.

ill try it without it

 

That worked thank you man

Edited September 29 by MrSnappyTurtles
tried the solution and it worked

[Kimera Industries]

I know UnKerballed Start rearranges the tech tree, does this mod conflict with that?

[bigyihsuan]

2 hours ago, Kimera Industries said:

I know UnKerballed Start rearranges the tech tree, does this mod conflict with that?

Skyhawk already starts unmanned, there's no need for UnKerballed Start with Skyhawk.

[dave1904]

Anyone know how skyhawk kerbalism patches command modules food supplies? I can't get it to work and cannot find it. 

Even if I make it a FINAL patch it won't add more food. I'm aware that I can change the supplies for all Pods in the profiles cfg but I would like the orion command module to carry more food than the starliner for example. 

 

[bigyihsuan]

Still working on the Skyhawk update for BDB 1.14, and I've been wondering about game balance, especially in the context of historicity.

As it is right now, the Delta IV is unlocked at the same time as Saturn V, and Atlas V with the Saturn IB. For post-Saturn V nodes, there's only 3 nodes.

The ETS stuff very obviously will go in the post-Saturn V nodes, but I'm not sure if there's enough space for Delta IV and Atlas V. Since they came out around the same time, I think they should be put in the same post-Saturn V tier.

Thoughts?

[Xt007]

2 hours ago, bigyihsuan said:

Still working on the Skyhawk update for BDB 1.14, and I've been wondering about game balance, especially in the context of historicity.

As it is right now, the Delta IV is unlocked at the same time as Saturn V, and Atlas V with the Saturn IB. For post-Saturn V nodes, there's only 3 nodes.

The ETS stuff very obviously will go in the post-Saturn V nodes, but I'm not sure if there's enough space for Delta IV and Atlas V. Since they came out around the same time, I think they should be put in the same post-Saturn V tier.

Thoughts?

Playing through with bdb 1.14 and the main branch of skyhawk, I can say the balance is fairly close.  I do feel the unlock of the mercury era stuff could be earlier as I had to orbit and land on the moon and orbit venus to unlock mercury.  And that's without unlocking any plane related nodes.

Edited October 4 by Xt007

[bigyihsuan]

21 hours ago, Xt007 said:

Playing through with bdb 1.14 and the main branch of skyhawk, I can say the balance is fairly close.  I do feel the unlock of the mercury era stuff could be earlier as I had to orbit and land on the moon and orbit venus to unlock mercury.  And that's without unlocking any plane related nodes.

Note that the main branch doesn't have the new 1.14 parts in properly assigned nodes yet (that's what I'm working on), and it's using its "best guess" automatic tech node placement.

I will consider moving Mercury a tier earlier.

[TopGunTheMovie]

On 10/3/2024 at 10:19 PM, bigyihsuan said:

Still working on the Skyhawk update for BDB 1.14, and I've been wondering about game balance, especially in the context of historicity.

As it is right now, the Delta IV is unlocked at the same time as Saturn V, and Atlas V with the Saturn IB. For post-Saturn V nodes, there's only 3 nodes.

The ETS stuff very obviously will go in the post-Saturn V nodes, but I'm not sure if there's enough space for Delta IV and Atlas V. Since they came out around the same time, I think they should be put in the same post-Saturn V tier.

Thoughts?

I was also thinking about this and am working on an extended tech tree that would push most branches back by two nodes, adding a "Post Apollo" (tier 9) and "Pre-Modern" (tier 10) nodes to the rocketry branch. I also moved the Mercury capsule back as mentioned, moving the node to tier 4 and adding aviation3 as a requirement to the node. As for the other parts, I'm going to structure them based on balance and chronology, trying to keep the Delta IV and Atlas V at "Modern" (now tier 11,) Apollo in the same spot (tier 8,) and the rest of the rockets somewhere in-between. I was also going to extend the tree backwards for better integration of sounding rocket mods (Wacapella, etc.) adding a "tier 0" with three nodes (aircraft, rockets, engineering.)

So far, this is roughly how I was planning on structuring the progression:

Lvl start - WWII aircraft
lvl 0 - Jet engines, basic sounding rockets (can be merged into lvl 1 or lvl start, removing this tier)
lvl 1 - Rocket planes (X-1), large sounding rockets
lvl 2 - Explorer 1/Juno I, Vanguard, Atlas A/B/SCORE
lvl 3 - Atlas C, Thor, Able, Agena A, X-15, Juno II
lvl 4 - Atlas D, Agena B, Ablestar, Delta B/C/D, Titan I, Mercury
lvl 5 - Atlas E/F, Agena D, Titan II, Gemini, Thor Upgrades, Juno IV, Delta E (TAID)
lvl 6 - Saturn I, Atlas SLV-3, Gemini Lunar Flyby, Apollo Boilerplate, Delta ELT & HOSS, Vega, Centaur, Titan IIIA/B
lvl 7 - Saturn IB, Gemini Lander, Titan IIIC, Apollo CSM, Atlas SLV-3K
lvl 8 - Saturn V, Big Gemini, Apollo Lunar Lander, Atlas CLEV
lvl 9 - Atlas II, Titan IV, Delta K upper stage, Post Apollo Saturn (ETS), Apollo Block III, LM Base modules, Skylab, Venus Flyby (might be moved up one more. Thoughts?)
Lvl 10 - Atlas III, Delta P upper stage, Space Shuttle (benjee10), Skylab Extensions, Centaur II, Titan LDC
Lvl 11 - Atlas V, Delta III/IV, SLS (benjee10)
Lvl 12 - Near Future Rocketry
Lvl 13 - Mastery

Thoughts on how this would be balanced? Think this would make the tech tree too long? I would (try to) balance the costs of the tree as well to prevent it from being too difficult.

As of now I have the tree structured, just need to add titles and descriptions, and create/update the configs to sort the parts into each node. I am also trying to learn how to create/edit B9 part switch configs to update the hypergolic configs, adding the liquid fluorine parts to the mix, though I am new to modding so that will likely take time.

[Lonelykermit]

6 hours ago, TopGunTheMovie said:

I was also thinking about this and am working on an extended tech tree that would push most branches back by two nodes, adding a "Post Apollo" (tier 9) and "Pre-Modern" (tier 10) nodes to the rocketry branch. I also moved the Mercury capsule back as mentioned, moving the node to tier 4 and adding aviation3 as a requirement to the node. As for the other parts, I'm going to structure them based on balance and chronology, trying to keep the Delta IV and Atlas V at "Modern" (now tier 11,) Apollo in the same spot (tier 8,) and the rest of the rockets somewhere in-between. I was also going to extend the tree backwards for better integration of sounding rocket mods (Wacapella, etc.) adding a "tier 0" with three nodes (aircraft, rockets, engineering.)

So far, this is roughly how I was planning on structuring the progression:

Lvl start - WWII aircraft
lvl 0 - Jet engines, basic sounding rockets (can be merged into lvl 1 or lvl start, removing this tier)
lvl 1 - Rocket planes (X-1), large sounding rockets
lvl 2 - Explorer 1/Juno I, Vanguard, Atlas A/B/SCORE
lvl 3 - Atlas C, Thor, Able, Agena A, X-15, Juno II
lvl 4 - Atlas D, Agena B, Ablestar, Delta B/C/D, Titan I, Mercury
lvl 5 - Atlas E/F, Agena D, Titan II, Gemini, Thor Upgrades, Juno IV, Delta E (TAID)
lvl 6 - Saturn I, Atlas SLV-3, Gemini Lunar Flyby, Apollo Boilerplate, Delta ELT & HOSS, Vega, Centaur, Titan IIIA/B
lvl 7 - Saturn IB, Gemini Lander, Titan IIIC, Apollo CSM, Atlas SLV-3K
lvl 8 - Saturn V, Big Gemini, Apollo Lunar Lander, Atlas CLEV
lvl 9 - Atlas II, Titan IV, Delta K upper stage, Post Apollo Saturn (ETS), Apollo Block III, LM Base modules, Skylab, Venus Flyby (might be moved up one more. Thoughts?)
Lvl 10 - Atlas III, Delta P upper stage, Space Shuttle (benjee10), Skylab Extensions, Centaur II, Titan LDC
Lvl 11 - Atlas V, Delta III/IV, SLS (benjee10)
Lvl 12 - Near Future Rocketry
Lvl 13 - Mastery

Thoughts on how this would be balanced? Think this would make the tech tree too long? I would (try to) balance the costs of the tree as well to prevent it from being too difficult.

As of now I have the tree structured, just need to add titles and descriptions, and create/update the configs to sort the parts into each node. I am also trying to learn how to create/edit B9 part switch configs to update the hypergolic configs, adding the liquid fluorine parts to the mix, though I am new to modding so that will likely take time.

I actually really like this concept, and i dont mind a long tech tree imo.