Show and Tell - Procedural Radiators

[darthgently]

26 minutes ago, mattinoz said:

Well sure we hear you but.... the radiators already look a lot like solar panels and the game is modable .... 

So do you want to have us using a half hearted mod that converts the radiators into solar panels and posts creations of things not intended by the game but still massive fun to build that need procedural solar panels. 

First thought I had was solar and radiator domes for colonies. Maybe cover over a small carter with geothermal power plant inside making a nice location for crops. 

I don't know.  A spherical surface would be the least efficient way to dissipate heat, and there would be no fully angling it away from the sun.  Similar arguments for solar.  I'll stick with the variety that can track.  Maybe a rotating dome/shell where one half is radiator and one half PV with the PVs orienting to the sun and the radiator half away from the sun?   I still seems like it just wouldn't maximize the situation well; especially at local noon.  Maybe a "stepped finned" dome where the upper surfaces are PV, and the shaded gaps in between would be radiative?  Picture a stack of increasingly smaller flattened rings with a shaded vertical gap in between, if that makes sense

Total agreement that procedural PVs are a no-brainer.  Someone already commented that they are likely not ruled out, just not slated as a priority for initial release and relegated to a later release.  But we all know a mod will have filled the gap long before that probably; then there will be plenty of procedural PV options

Edited March 28, 2022 by darthgently

[The Aziz]

I think few people don't realize that while radiators are procedural, they're still flat on one axis. And they have to be to actually work. You know, dissipate heat away from vessel, and/or be always edge on towards the sun. We're not being able to create some crazy spirals. Same goes for solar panels. Flat on the vessel body or tracking the sun.

[MrFancyPL]

On 3/25/2022 at 6:52 PM, Nate Simpson said:

Seeing this question pop up in a few places. We don't currently have specific plans to add procedural solar panels for release, as solar gameplay wasn't blocked by the absence of a large-scale solution in the way that radiator gameplay was. As you get deeper into the progression, you've got a number of other power generation solutions that don't rely on sunlight (since many of the problems you're solving involve either being very far from a star or being in a situation in which solar intermittency is an obstacle). I'd love to hear the applications you see for big, interestingly-shaped solar panels. 

Would be nice if there would be ability to make big solar farms in space and beaming this power via IR to ground stations (or beaming to the ships on orbit). I know KSP2 is aiming to utilize far future technologies, but would be great to push to the edge everything "near future". IDK how much hassle it would be to implement it tho, but if you guys have time, that is great idea, that was implemented in some mods for KSP1. Also, i suspect, with the new resource system, it would work more reliably than in KSP1.

Also, please consider adding procedural truss as a standalone part. It would be very useful in creation of big trusses.

Edited March 28, 2022 by MrFancyPL
addition

[poopslayer78]

2 hours ago, MrFancyPL said:

Would be nice if there would be ability to make big solar farms in space and beaming this power via IR to ground stations

Long-range wireless energy transmission would be a neat mod, not sure if it will be in the base game though.  An alternative would be doing energy-intensive manufacturing within a solar station, especially if the inputs/outputs are low-mass.  That way you'd be shipping out materials that "contain energy" rather than beaming it out.  A real life equivalent would be Iceland using its plentiful geothermal energy for aluminum manufacturing.

[T1mo98]

On 3/25/2022 at 6:52 PM, Nate Simpson said:

I'd love to hear the applications you see for big, interestingly-shaped solar panels. 

 

Coming at this from the perspective of someone who just loves designing new crafts or creating replicas of actual rockets and spacecraft, having Procedural Solar Panels would vastly increase creative options and make it possible to create the perfect look I'm going after.

So it's not really just very big solar panels, but also just ones not shaped like the default options.

[Infinite_Maelstrom]

I wonder if solar panels in ksp2 will have a luminosity cutoff like real ones?  I think IRL solar stops working altogether past Saturn.

 

On 3/26/2022 at 6:42 AM, KSPStar said:

Yes it is!

Do you still have the classic VAB music too?

[Bej Kerman]

8 hours ago, Infinite_Maelstrom said:

Do you still have the classic VAB music too?

Classic VAB music was a random royalty-free track. Probably won't appear in KSP 2 in favour of original music.

[Vl3d]

I appreciate everything the team is doing for the game and I can't wait to buy and play it. But, please allow me to say a few things.

1. The procedural radiators look shiny, membranous and modern, but also very thin and flat - it's practically invisible when looking at it edge-on. I really liked the KSP1 radiators because of their angled, solid, mechanical look. I hope we get that design also.

2. The new procedural radiators look like solar panels because of their texture and design. Thus we think about having procedural solar panels. Do we need procedural solar panels?  Probably not. Do we feel like we would be missing out if we did not have them? Yes. Because the procedural radiators look like solar panels.

3. Please, can we have a more consistent and predictable marketing and communication campaign? Some of us are panicking because we know so little about the game.

Thank you if anyone on the team reads this. We get so little feedback.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Vl3d
typo

[The Aziz]

3 hours ago, Vl3d said:

Please, can we have a more consistent and predictable marketing and communication campaign?

When it's time for it. It's not up to Intercept to decide when a campaign should start.

[Fletch4]

will there be a way to make it so these snap to certain angles? I would find it a little odd if I kept moving stuff where I didn't want it to go.

[Bej Kerman]

10 hours ago, Vl3d said:

Do we feel like we would be missing out if we did not have them? Yes. Because the procedural radiators look like solar panels.

The actual reason being that static solar panels don't exactly give us a lot of possibilities in contrast to radiators.

[Fullmetal Analyst]

in 2 whole months, thats the only thing you made? lol

[The Aziz]

Yes, because they're showing us everything they do, obviously...

[Davi SDF]

2 hours ago, Fullmetal Analyst said:

in 2 whole months, thats the only thing you made? lol

Damn, talk about being COLD. (got it? cause radiators are used to COOLdown!)

[boolybooly]

sweet rads dude !

[Akagi]

On 3/25/2022 at 10:02 AM, KSPStar said:

A new part is born! To keep our toasty interstellar vessels cool, we've created an all-new procedural radiator system that allows you to make radiators of all shapes and sizes.

This is going to be REALLY COOL.

[SSTO Crasher]

Forum people: Are you going to add procedural parts?

KSP2 team: yes 

Forum people: What parts will you make procedural?

KSP2 team: Yes

 

Also the UI is looking more complete by the every-other-week

[FleshJeb]

I see we're still going with:

"so glossy it looks like it has 2cm of ClearCoat on it."

"enough light bloom to embarrass JJ Abrams"

The recent fad of flat monochrome UI buttons still hasn't died, eh? Despite studies pointing to serious usability issues?

https://www.nngroup.com/articles/flat-design/

[darthgently]

14 minutes ago, FleshJeb said:

I see we're still going with:

"so glossy it looks like it has 2cm of ClearCoat on it."

"enough light bloom to embarrass JJ Abrams"

The recent fad of flat monochrome UI buttons still hasn't died, eh? Despite studies pointing to serious usability issues?

https://www.nngroup.com/articles/flat-design/

One of my niggles, flat or otherwise, is a td/panel/square/whatever that has text in it that is basically a button with a link.  But only the text itself has the link tied to it, so you have to micronavigate the pointer specifically to the text, rather than the "panel" it is within, to click the link.  If going flat, treat the entire square reserved for the text, be it a cell in a table, or whatever, as a clickable link surface please.  The enclosing space is a "button" visually, no matter what style it is in.  Hope that make sense.  Sadly, this web site epitomizes this problem

There is a lot to be said for having a bit of 3d in there because our brains respond to that.  I wonder sometimes if the flattening is mirroring a decrease in 3d thinking in the populace or if the flattening could encourage a decrease in 3d thinking in people.  Just because it is a computer screen doesn't mean that it is somehow better if flat.  Print media long pre-existing computer screens leveraged every visual arts technique 2d or 3d or skeuomorphic to provide rich and useful information.  Magazines, newpapers, and posters were considered "dull" and "unengaging" if they did what looks like flat design is doing on screens today.  Why are we throwing out thousands of years of visual arts culture and development?  Is it some kind of cultural revolution led by big tech to purge history's slate?  Of course not.  By why do something that even looks like that?

[TROPtastic]

20 minutes ago, FleshJeb said:

I see we're still going with:

"so glossy it looks like it has 2cm of ClearCoat on it."

"enough light bloom to embarrass JJ Abrams"

The recent fad of flat monochrome UI buttons still hasn't died, eh? Despite studies pointing to serious usability issues?

https://www.nngroup.com/articles/flat-design/

The glossiness could probably be toned down, and hopefully the bloom is as well, but the UI doesn't seem to be as problematic.

In the site you linked, three determiners of "clickability" are listed as:

• Traditional, externally consistent signifiers (such as the blue, underlined text or raised buttons)
• Something reminiscent of a traditional signifier (such as underlined text of any color or boxed text)
• Contextual clues (such as actionable text or placement at the top of the page)

In the UI, we see that the Fuel parts tab has a different highlight to show it is active, and buttons follow UI traditions/contextual clues that are broadly familiar to people who've played KSP or Besieged or other "builders" before.  There's also consistency in that everything that looks like a button is a button. 

It's also important to distinguish KSP2 from websites that might be visited once or twice.  Since KSP2 is a game, users will become more familiar with the UI layout as time goes on, reducing some of the effect of a fully flat UI. This doesn't mean that the devs can totally abandon UX principles (if the CoT/CoM/CoL buttons are not highlighted when said indicators are active, that would be needlessly confusing), but it does mean they have a bit more design freedom to work with.

[Bej Kerman]

16 hours ago, FleshJeb said:

I see we're still going with:

"so glossy it looks like it has 2cm of ClearCoat on it."

"enough light bloom to embarrass JJ Abrams"

The recent fad of flat monochrome UI buttons still hasn't died, eh? Despite studies pointing to serious usability issues?

https://www.nngroup.com/articles/flat-design/

Are you @Fullmetal Analyst alt? lol

Flat UI is way less convoluted, which is what KSP 2 devs are trying to avoid.

[Vanamonde]

Some personal remarks removed. Please disagree with each other without getting nasty about it. 

[SOXBLOX]

17 hours ago, TROPtastic said:

The glossiness could probably be toned down, and hopefully the bloom is as well, but the UI doesn't seem to be as problematic.

In the site you linked, three determiners of "clickability" are listed as:

• Traditional, externally consistent signifiers (such as the blue, underlined text or raised buttons)
• Something reminiscent of a traditional signifier (such as underlined text of any color or boxed text)
• Contextual clues (such as actionable text or placement at the top of the page)

In the UI, we see that the Fuel parts tab has a different highlight to show it is active, and buttons follow UI traditions/contextual clues that are broadly familiar to people who've played KSP or Besieged or other "builders" before.  There's also consistency in that everything that looks like a button is a button. 

It's also important to distinguish KSP2 from websites that might be visited once or twice.  Since KSP2 is a game, users will become more familiar with the UI layout as time goes on, reducing some of the effect of a fully flat UI. This doesn't mean that the devs can totally abandon UX principles (if the CoT/CoM/CoL buttons are not highlighted when said indicators are active, that would be needlessly confusing), but it does mean they have a bit more design freedom to work with.

I agree. I personally love flat UI designs. I dislike extreme minimalism. There shouldn't be tons of empty space. Colors and highlights should all fall within the same palette. This UI we're seeing from the devs checks all my boxes.

[Lewie]

On 4/1/2022 at 10:11 AM, SSTO Crasher said:

Forum people: Are you going to add procedural parts?

KSP2 team: yes 

Forum people: What parts will you make procedural?

KSP2 team: Yes

 

Also the UI is looking more complete by the every-other-week

The devs rock!

On 4/1/2022 at 2:48 AM, Fullmetal Analyst said:

in 2 whole months, thats the only thing you made? lol

They don’t have to show us anything, and everything they do show is is awesome!

On 3/29/2022 at 3:48 AM, Infinite_Maelstrom said:

I wonder if solar panels in ksp2 will have a luminosity cutoff like real ones?  I think IRL solar stops working altogether past Saturn.

 

Do you still have the classic VAB music too?

Probably will be able to edit the files. It’s stupidly easy to edit lap’s music, there’s a fair chance that ksp2 will be the same/similar. The music used in ksp is royalty free, so you can get it no problem

[Catto]

On 3/29/2022 at 10:15 AM, Bej Kerman said:

Classic VAB music was a random royalty-free track. Probably won't appear in KSP 2 in favour of original music.

They should remix it.