Do you guys feel like this is what the fan patience deserved?

[tstein]

19 minutes ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

And the devs stop receiving money if the publisher thinks it will flop

and you  think  the publishers are so dumb as to just pull  out and lose all they invested because of a first  week of bad sales? That is not how investment works. no no no..  to  make the investors wake up is the best thing ANY project of software always need when it has internal issues.

[LoSBoL]

1 hour ago, Superfluous J said:

Genuine answer:

We got more than we deserved, because we deserved nothing. Anything more than nothing, is more.

Said as someone who is not buying the game because I don't feel it offers me $50 worth.

I feel the same, said as someone who did buy the game while knowing it wouldnt be offering me $50 worth, maybe it will later, maybe it won't. 

[78stonewobble]

It's not what I hoped for, but what I hoped for is also not a reasonable expectation. 

 

I don't know what corporate shenanigans have happened over the last few years, pandemic and what not, but the current early access is about what I would expect for earliest access. 

Which is to say, not for me, with my hardware. 

And that's fine. 

 

I also waited to buy ksp1 til there was alot more game in it, than ksp1's earliest releases, because that fits my temperament and taste. 

 

I don't have a problem, with it being available for others with beefier computers and more patience. 

[Mantarochen]

The biggest problem with this release is the amount of copium/hopium that is spreading amongst the KSP community. 

Let's face the truth, the game launch was ruff, the game isn't finished, I'd say it isn't even out of the state a typical dev build for internal testing is in.

The performance is abysmal and basic features from KSP1 are missing, let alone the promised features for KSP2. 

The Price is way, and I mean way, too hefty for what was put on the table and especially for being an EA title. 

 

I waited for the launch since years, took a day off from work on Friday to play the game.  I was severely turned down by all the above-mentioned problems. But the game running so utterly catastrophic was the point that made me refund it. 

I don't have a bad system by any means with a Ryzen 9 5900X , 64 GB of RAM and a RTX 4090. I'd say except the CPU, my system is pretty much as high as you can go. 

Getting 39FPS on a Kerbal X launch dipping into the 20s with a €2000 GPU is just not acceptable. Not even for an EA title. 

 

The game has many obstacles to climb, and the devs will need to put mountains upon mountains of work in the broken mess they released. Inflating the steam reviews with straight-up lies and copium isn't going to make the game better.

 

 

Flooding Reddit, the forums and other places with "buts it's just EA, don't buy it then...." won't save the game. It's just annoying. 

The game is a mess right now. That's an objective fact measured in the amount of bugs, the performance and the feature set. 

Don't hate on the devs, don't hate on the game, just accept the truth and try to stay objective in any sort of way. The 30th Reddit thread "that the game is just EA so stop complaining" is literal TNT for the community to go ham on each other.

 

Greetings.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Mantarochen

[78stonewobble]

Well, when it says early access I fully expect bugs, lack of features and poor performance and indeed no guarantees.

 

O.o

 

I don't know how or why anyone else would expect anything else. 

[RocketRockington]

6 minutes ago, 78stonewobble said:

Well, when it says early access I fully expect bugs, lack of features and poor performance and indeed no guarantees.

 

O.o

 

I don't know how or why anyone else would expect anything else. 

Please read the quotes I posted from the devs (not from Take 2, that was a dev).  Thats why someone might reasonably have expected better, if they trusted the developers words.  If it was just marketing though, then why does everyone keep saying 'trust the devs'?

[DwightLee]

Personally I am having a blast with KSP 2. 

 

I would not recommend it to a non-KSP-enthusiast gamer yet, but for me it has been great!

[78stonewobble]

6 minutes ago, RocketRockington said:

Please read the quotes I posted from the devs (not from Take 2, that was a dev).  Thats why someone might reasonably have expected better, if they trusted the developers words.  If it was just marketing though, then why does everyone keep saying 'trust the devs'?

Ah, well I never really trust people that try to sell me anything as a kind of principle. 

In any case. All I'm saying is that the current early access is about what I would expect for early access and about comparable (not the same, but comparable) to the earliest ksp1 early access.

 

Edit and ps: I think that basing one's expectations on intentions and month to multiple year long predictions from years ago is a recipe for  unrealistic expectations, especially if one ignores more up to date information for the sake of essentially wishful thinking. 

 

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by 78stonewobble

[Alexoff]

18 minutes ago, 78stonewobble said:

Well, when it says early access I fully expect bugs, lack of features and poor performance and indeed no guarantees.

 

O.o

 

I don't know how or why anyone else would expect anything else. 

Did you expect that there would be no effects of descent into the atmosphere, light scattering, heating, ore mining, cockpit view, fuel overflow blocking?

Cyberpunk developers should have just announced in 2020 that they are releasing an early version of the game, everyone would have been happy then. After all, early access is an indulgence against everything! If the game loaded beyond the menu, it is already good, but what else could you expect?

[MarcAbaddon]

I've been part of a few EA's and closed beta. They have bugs, sometimes serious bugs.

But they rarely have the kind of interface and performance issues the KSP 2 early access has. For it to be running smoothly it would be a general boost to about 4 times the current performance. I haven't seen that in any of my previous games, at least not across the board - only in very specific scenes/situations. The performance is bad enough that it impedes the ability of testers to try out the game. Going a bit of optimization right now wouldn't be at all premature optimization.

[TheOtherDave]

7 hours ago, Vl3d said:

The game is fine, most bugs are UI related and easily fixable. It's the best the devs could do with the team / time / money they have. It can only get better from here. Let's stop being negative and just give our most useful feedback.

Yep. I haven’t played it since there’s no macOS support yet, but that’s the only thing holding me back. I haven’t seen anything that makes me worried about the quality that KSP 2 will have when it hits v1.0.

[78stonewobble]

1 minute ago, Alexoff said:

Did you expect that there would be no effects of descent into the atmosphere, light scattering, heating, ore mining, cockpit view, fuel overflow blocking?

Cyberpunk developers should have just announced in 2020 that they are releasing an early version of the game, everyone would have been happy then. After all, early access is an indulgence against everything! If the game loaded beyond the menu, it is already good, but what else could you expect?

I don't think ksp1 had much of that within 3 days of it's first early access (free or not), so I think that's a reasonable point of comparison. 

 

And that's not for me, which is why I waited til much much later in ksp1's early access to buy it. 

 

That makes sense to be and you may disagree, but then we can ask, which of our 2 different approaches to managing expectations lead to the most realistic expectations. 

 

And apparently that was me and I don't have to mess with refunds or buyers regret. 

 

Ps: But make no mistake I would have loved if everything promised, insinuated, dreamt up, shown in a trailer etc. Was available right now and running on my old comp., but I genuinely think that's an unfair and unrealistic expectation. 

[xProphetx]

From what I can tell not much has changed.  There is a newish UI and newish graphics in places... but the worst and most annoying things of KSP1 have carried over and there are now more.   To me it definitely seems like some disaster happened that caused the delays and for it to be what it is.  I know its early release but IMO its not finished enough to be EA either.  I'm really really shocked honestly.

[BobbyDausus]

5 hours ago, RayneCloud said:

A lot of people in here have never worked on a game and it shows. 

* You';re ignoring a 2+ year long pandemic.
* You're ignoring what it's like to have to move an in office team to a remote work environment and back again.  (If that happened, I don't know if it did for certain>)
* The situation with the first studio seems to be glossed over as well.
* Game dev is an iterative process that is constantly moving and changing. 
* Stop treating the dev team like they're no longer human beings, it's disgusting. People make mistakes, and while I would like some more communication and information, insults and attacks on their character are childish at best and incredibly toxic and hurtful at worst.  

Problem is that we got something that was supposed to be developed in those 4+ years......The rotten orange slice we've got is a straight up joke. Me and you can pull of a better game in 4+ years.Man this game is so empty and badly optimised.It's like me drawing a TV on a sheet of paper and give it to ya and say ,,enjoy your new TV,,

[danfarnsy]

Early Access is fine, but it shouldn't have core functionality broken in ways that can be found within two hours of any of the devs just playing their own game a bit, not after several years of development. The Kraken eating your ship in KSP 0.17 was funny. Fuel being consumed from the wrong stages on a trip to the Mun shouldn't be something your customers pay $50 to tell you about. We aren't finding obscure things that they didn't have time to catch. Basic gameplay is being hamstrung by things the devs should have known about and already fixed. It feels like nobody is in charge.

[MaxQ]

1 hour ago, Mantarochen said:

The biggest problem with this release is the amount of copium/hopium that is spreading amongst the KSP community...

Don't hate on the devs, don't hate on the game, just accept the truth and try to stay objective in any sort of way. The 30th Reddit thread "that the game is just EA so stop complaining" is literal TNT for the community to go ham on each other.

 

Greetings.

Not sure why you believe that the KSP Community is the largest problem. Almost that you are disappointed that more don’t join your outrage?

It is a legitimate argument to note that the game is in EA, and plenty of warning of what to expect. Seems to me that the real issue is the price, followed by the doom and gloom worry that the games issues will never be addressed. It’s all speculation, influenced by one’s personal mindset and history with other titles. That speaks to the overall gaming software industry.  I also observe that the overall mood is more negative than positive though, with the haters outnumbering the “stop complaining” brigade by a large margin.  

It’s fifty bucks, refundable, with plenty of information on its current state. Everyone can make their own decision, so it’s difficult to be too upset at this point. 

[DwightLee]

3 hours ago, tstein said:

and you  think  the publishers are so dumb as to just pull  out and lose all they invested because of a first  week of bad sales? That is not how investment works. no no no..  to  make the investors wake up is the best thing ANY project of software always need when it has internal issues.

The answer to that is obviously yes, if you have been around the gaming industry a while

[Alexoff]

23 minutes ago, 78stonewobble said:

I don't think ksp1 had much of that within 3 days of it's first early access (free or not), so I think that's a reasonable point of comparison. 

KSP1, 6 years after the start of development, was already an almost finished game. It's amazing how expectations from developers have fallen. Once upon a time, the regulars of the forum proved to me here that professionals with serious funding from one of the largest game publishers got down to business. And the first part was developed by only a few people from the advertising company, I don’t even know if they had the necessary education. And now, after many years of transferring the full game, getting such a terrible core is just outrageous.

 

And the most disgusting thing is the complete absence of any words from the developers. What kind of reaction did they expect? Maybe they think it's normal that ordinary fans like you, who have no fault at all, respond to the wave of hate? Did they know what state the game was in? Are they preparing another roadmap, where will it be indicated when the main features of KSP1 will be included? Or maybe an apology video?

[mcwaffles2003]

3 hours ago, tstein said:

and you  think  the publishers are so dumb as to just pull  out and lose all they invested because of a first  week of bad sales? That is not how investment works. no no no..  to  make the investors wake up is the best thing ANY project of software always need when it has internal issues.

I have no game industry experience but I feel like sunk cost fallacy worries might push them away.

[danfarnsy]

3 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

And the most disgusting thing is the complete absence of any words from the developers. 

Nah, it's the weekend. Maybe they should've done a Tuesday release? Heh. But we don't need to hear from them on a Sunday.

[atomontage]

2 hours ago, Alexoff said:

KSP1, 6 years after the start of development, was already an almost finished game. It's amazing how expectations from developers have fallen. Once upon a time, the regulars of the forum proved to me here that professionals with serious funding from one of the largest game publishers got down to business. And the first part was developed by only a few people from the advertising company, I don’t even know if they had the necessary education. And now, after many years of transferring the full game, getting such a terrible core is just outrageous.

 

And the most disgusting thing is the complete absence of any words from the developers. What kind of reaction did they expect? Maybe they think it's normal that ordinary fans like you, who have no fault at all, respond to the wave of hate? Did they know what state the game was in? Are they preparing another roadmap, where will it be indicated when the main features of KSP1 will be included? Or maybe an apology video?

Agree with that dude. ^

A question of developers competency is a big question. In Credits there are lots of `software engineers`. It seems, they did not engineer much in this game. Copy-paste and refactor stuff? Probably.
3D artists are also a question. Why do kerbals look great but clouds are crap? Where is atmospheric scattering? Why is surface so uninteresting?
Now, the community management. From typos in System Requirements to tweeting then deleting then tweeting again and finally to laggy footage that they did not even bother to speedup. 'Random pics from devs' as they said. Promo materials were crap as well. BUT it prepared us for this catastrophe anyways. That's good.

Finally, the sys reqs announcement. Without explaination, without comfort - just cold truth. Of course the community exploded. 2060 as minimums? Now we see the reason. Don't community managers know how to prepare people to truth? Or to sweeten the pill? Or to comfort them and calm them down?

All the trolling made by PD | Dakota when community was shattered (a few days before the launch day) show their skill to be honest.

Disclaimer: I'm only speaking of their competency and skill and experience. Not about themselves.

Edited February 26, 2023 by atomontage

[Periple]

4 hours ago, tstein said:

I would  be worried to show  this even to an investor in closed door environment.

Just for your information, in game development investors and publishers are routinely shown games in much, much earlier stages of development than this. 

[Alexoff]

2 minutes ago, Periple said:

Just for your information, in game development investors and publishers are routinely shown games in much, much earlier stages of development than this. 

With the words - in a week we will sell in steam?

[Zozaf Kerman]

Idk man, i think finding all the bugs and helping with the development process is kinda fun.
;-;

[DunaManiac]

For the record, no, I don't think so.

I was one of the people who was saying "take your time," and to be honest, it all seems quite hollow now. I suppose it comes down to the question,  is a buggy game better than any at all? I believe that no matter what KSP2 was doomed to disaster, even if it made it's early 2020 release date. Then we would have got a game with worse graphics than what we got, even less features, and even more bugs.

2 minutes ago, atomontage said:

A question of developers competency is a big question. In Credits there are lots of `software engineers`. It seems, they did not engineer much in this game.

I wouldn't go as far as to questioning their competency. However, at some point you can't keep making excuses for the devs, you must hold them accountable for the game they've made - which was to push out a game that clearly wasn't ready.