User-Interface - Old vs New

[Moons]

I did some more research into the game and watched some more youtube videos and i really started to wonder - while the design of the UI looks better in many aspects - it also - to me - seems to be way worse and chaotic in other aspects. I wonder how other people feel about that?

 

I didnt find much screenshots so i used some from the official site and the forum:

 

Flight UI:

To me it just looks worse in KSP2 - the old UI is clean - doesnt take too much space and has a good visibility of important numbers. It makes sense to have the Navball in the center and the NAVball only has the things important to the Navball.

KSP2 UI seems like its condensed on the bottom and bottom left of the screen - everything is way bigger and has way more details leading to it actually being way less uncluttered from my point of view. There is way too many details and numbers in a small area and the rest of the screen is barely used. On the other hand the things that arent important at all - faces of kerbals etc. are suddenly huge. The style  of KSP2 numbers etc. mighit look nice and retro but its - from my point of view - very cluttered and confusing.

To sum it up - i think the new interface looks and from an UI point of view is way worse than the UI of a 10 year old game ... - it feels as if the focus was primary to make it look "cool" and not the actualy usability. There is a clear lack of visual distinctions. And a lot of screen space is simply wasted - why for example does the open Stage 1 screen use up probably tripple the space for the same ammount of information presented in KSP1? Why even give everything huge grey boxes?

Also for example the thing besides the navball is huge - blocks lots of visual space - colorful on black doesnt look good either (the round interface object besides the navball).

 

(from this comment and user on the forum - hope its okay to use it since i dont have screenshots:

(from this comment and user on the forum - hope its okay to use it since i dont have screenshots:

Building:

I feel the same way with the building. While the new system looks a bit better on the surface - it seems to be way worse when it comes to usability. Everything takes up more space for no reason - the important things - the actual built rocket - aswell as the staging has way less clarity in its design. The clear visual distinction between stages in KSP1 looks way better than the stylized design in the new game.

And in general looking at the screenshot i wonder if a less realistic lighting and clear distinction between rocket and the background more similar to KSP1 would lead to a way nicer building function.

To put it simple - in KSP1 the focus seems to be the thing you actually build - in KSP2 the focus seems to be the interface and the design of the interface.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 10, 2023 by Moons

[J.Random]

Kinda OT, but not really, since it's part of UI, kinda. Aren't the "wings" on the floor pointing the wrong way?

[MarcAbaddon]

It has some improvements and some aspect that seem worse. I like the new Nav Ball, but I would also prefer to have it in the bottom middle.

My primary concern at the moment is the map view, because that has some issues compared with KSP 1 that I don't get, mostly to do with maneuver nodes. It was something that got incremental improvements over the KSP 1 lifetime, but the current version in KSP 2 is pretty bad. Not being able to skip orbits or enter exact numbers.

And don't get me started on the fact that AP and PE of the post-node orbit vanish while actually manipulating the node. 

 

[pandaman]

Overall I like the new UA, sure it's 'different', so unfamiliar, but lot of the issues I have would be addressed by being able to scale things and move them like we could in later versions if KSP1.

[The Aziz]

50 minutes ago, Moons said:

seems to be way worse and chaotic in other aspects

Old UI was chaotic. Non uniform style, instruments scattered all over the place, every important number in different part of the screen. 

53 minutes ago, Moons said:

It makes sense to have the Navball in the center

Blocking the already limited view during landing approach?

1 hour ago, Moons said:

KSP2 UI seems like its condensed on the bottom and bottom left of the screen - everything is way bigger and has way more details

And it being condensed so much means that all the crucial information takes less space on the screen than it used to.

1 hour ago, Moons said:

rest of the screen is barely used.

Very good! More space for, well, space.

1 hour ago, Moons said:

On the other hand the things that arent important at all - faces of kerbals etc. are suddenly huge.

Not really, that hasn't changed much.

1 hour ago, Moons said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Moons said:

 

You have a lot more space in the center of the screen, where it really matters. That's very good. All vertical space is occupied on the sides where the UI elements don't block the important view - the rocket.

[Wheehaw Kerman]

I hated the navball in the middle and moved hard over to the left in KSP1 the second we were able to do that.  I find that having all the relevant flight data in one part of the screen where it doesn’t interfere with what’s going on, like, e.g., blocking your view of your  *landing site* makes a heckuva lot of sense.  I really like the new navball: all it needs is a few more details like apoapsis/periapsis,  and acceleration.

Not a big fan of the lighting in the VAB though.

[kerbiloid]

Can't see, did they add the UI element, whose absence is the most annoying for me in KSP-1: the view azimuth indicator?

I.e. not the craft heading, but where your view is pointing to when you rotate it with mouse?

Like when you stick your head out and look around with a binocular. The azimuth angle of the binocular, not of the craft.

[The Aziz]

What for?

[regex]

59 minutes ago, Wheehaw Kerman said:

Not a big fan of the lighting in the VAB though.

This is probably my biggest criticism of KSP2's UI. The rest looks fantastic. I definitely think some controls or indicators could be more compact like the throttle, climb rate, and air density meters (like seriously, the throttle is ridiculous), and the VAB widget could be slimmer.

KSP1 had some very strong "Windows 95" energy and was generally ugly and plain.

Edited March 10, 2023 by regex

[LostElement]

I overall enjoy the new UI. It's clean. However, I would personally prefer if we were able to set a global scale for the UI as I'd probably make things a little smaller, but that's just me.

My only thing so far is that I don't know if I like or dislike the new parts manager.

[Moons]

2 hours ago, The Aziz said:

Old UI was chaotic. Non uniform style, instruments scattered all over the place, every important number in different part of the screen. 

Blocking the already limited view during landing approach?

And it being condensed so much means that all the crucial information takes less space on the screen than it used to.

Very good! More space for, well, space.

Not really, that hasn't changed much.

 

You have a lot more space in the center of the screen, where it really matters. That's very good. All vertical space is occupied on the sides where the UI elements don't block the important view - the rocket.

I dont think so at all - the old UI was pretty clean and distinctive with the use of colors all important things were easy to see.

To me it just seems and feels chaotic if everything is just stuck together with way to many information in a really small space. And as i said from my point of view the new UI actually uses ap more space then the old Interface - the new Navball and the extras already use 1/6th of the screen.

I never felt like something important of my view was blocked in KSP1. I think the design of the new Navbal is bad - its too big - too many details and the color-picks also dont help.

 

Since some people seem to prefer the new one maybe a flexible UI or maybe even a retro UI would be a nice solution.

 

The other aspect - the lighting of the building area seems to be something most people dont like that much.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Moons

[HowDoKerbal]

Everything about the new UI is an improvement. The only issues that immediately come to mind are some font choices and the part movement arrows in VAB.

[Casellina X]

I'd prefer the Navball in the center. Distance-wise, it's closer to the action so I can orient myself. Moveable UI elements would be useful. Sometimes the Navball itself seems busy, cluttered. I remember a screenshot where it was a blue/blue instead of blue/brown setup - that Navball was preferable for me. I need(want) to see burn times and TWR return during flight and VAB construction, and inclination. The rest I'm not that fussed over. Pinable menus/labels would be a welcome return. In some ways, I guess I just want the KSP1 flight UI, with the KSP2 visual style.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

I never liked Navball in the center - blocks too much of the visual goodness of the game.

That said - I REALLY wish I could adjust the size of the current UI elements - and maybe move a few around.  Keep Navball where it is - but make it ~ 25% smaller.  Move the Burn Timer down.  Get rid of Resource Manager - in its current, default form - and go back to a system where I can call out certain parts and leave them pinned to the side (if I so choose).  Note: I do like Resource Manager for helping me find a something that is tiny - but the god awful size, placement and opacity of the current implementation is something I'd like to only call up if I really need it (i.e. via the button on the bottom of the screen) - but would prefer to be able to right click a certain part and have its UI small, tight and available distinct from everything else.

[ShadowZone]

After two weeks with the new UI, I prefer the condensed information around the nav ball to the scattered info of the old UI.
I know what I'm doing and see everything I need when I need it. And you never have bright green text (see your KER HUDs on top) that you cannot read because you're above a bright surface. Whoever designed the new UI knew what they were doing.

HOWEVER, there is room for improvement:

• We desperately need UI scaling flight, map and VAB view. Everything is comically large, playing 1440p (like I do) I would expect I get more screen real estate for the actual game.
• I want a TWR indicator somewhere. Could be instead of the throttle percentage, because who really requires the throttle percentage written out? I never cared for that number.
• AP timer is buggy: when you are suborbital and have passed AP, the timer will show you the time since AP, but it is still displayed as a "minus" number, instead of a "plus" number.
• Map view: Orbits for the same craft all have the same color. This is terrible if you have multiple passes and need to discern which of the displayed lines is the one you will fly through next. I have missed a Duna encounter because of that because "time warp until here" was in fact not my current but my future orbit and I made an unintentional victory lap around Kerbol.
• Map view: there needs to be "time until" info for SOI or basically every node you can expand.
• I have gotten used to it, but I am still not a fan of the "pixelated" logos for SAS, RCS etc. I think that style clashes with the rest of the game, especially with how vehicles look. But I have heard from people that actually like them, so I guess "live and let live".

[Chilkoot]

4 hours ago, The Aziz said:

instruments scattered all over the place, every important number in different part of the screen. 

That's not always bad.  For example, the altimeter was somewhat 'heads-up' and very prominent in KSP 1, and it's position and visibility are both poor in comparison in KSP 2.  Information "clumping" has its own set of problems, and there's a good argument that the new flight UI suffers from many of them.

[The Aziz]

I'd say that having the speed, altitude and vehicle attitude (navball itself) in one place is crucial for, for example, landing.

[Stoup]

One thing I think needs attention is the fact that, when you're high in orbit, the movement of the altimeter is just constantly spinning. I find it distracting and kinda unnecessary when you're in that specific scenario

[RocketRockington]

@MoonsI mostly agree with you.

 

I think there have been minor improvements, like the ones Shadowzone cites,.

The KSP UI was put together over years and a bit slapdash but understandable given it was a 100% new type of simulation and everything has to be learned as the game evolved,  and they never took the time to do a full redo of the UI.  Modders also never did it so it was likely a very difficult thing to do, was.loelly too entwined with other code.

I mean look at how airline UIs have evolved over the years.

KSP2 had a clean slate and all that learning to be able to make improvements, and it came up with a few things that were better, like orthographic view in the VAB.  But the amount of progress is...pretty damn low.  So either KSP's UI was already close to ideal (unlikely) or improving viewability and functionality was not a key priority for KSP2.  Remember when the Kerbals were front and center in the UI?  Good thing enough people complained that at least that turd decision was changed.

Amd some things are just pure face palm downgrades like the giant all in one part window.  

Given the nature of that team and what they've done with the rest of the game, I'm 100% certain that thier overall creative direction was much more style > function.  And they 'stylized' the UI.  I think that's what you're likely to get when the creative director is an artist rather than a more systems oriented developer. 

Hopefully this time they've made the UI more moddable, so that modders can do thier own version.

[The Aziz]

KSP1 UI was also stylized. But more in a 1960s fashion, rather than KSP2's early digital 1990s style. Which imho should be gone when we're talking about a civilization that's about to reach other stars.

1 hour ago, RocketRockington said:

some things are just pure face palm downgrades like the giant all in one part window

That wouldn't be a problem in itself if it was better refined. Simple things like scaling the window to fit the amount of buttons available for a chosen part( plus better scaling of the buttons themselves, they're huge), showing which section belongs to which part (if I have 8 pairs of the same solar panels I can't tell which one I'm retracting), pinning the ones I want, horizontal extending, so I can perhaps have 4 parts open in a 2x2 manner...

[RocketRockington]

5 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

KSP1 UI was also stylized. But more in a 1960s fashion, rather than KSP2's early digital 1990s style. Which imho should be gone when we're talking about a civilization that's about to reach other stars.

Totally agree.  I think KSP1's style is called Skeumorphism. 

What I'm saying here is that style was the overriding concern when updating KSP2's UI vs functionality.  Rather than picking the most readable UI that can give the player the most screen space while conveying necessary information - and they applying a appropriate style to that - my guess is they picked this weird space-invaders/1980's Aliens movie UI and then slapped things into that

[Haustvindr]

As far as I'm seeing, at scale=1 the KSP1 navball area looks that is not much smaller than KSP2. But due to density of information the navball itself is smaller, giving the illusion that the whole area is bigger.

What it is bigger is the attitude/SAS widget, but I think it's not bad (until I can actually use it at least, I may change my tune).

The other widgets are what makes the UI looks more cluttered, specially I'd say the staging one.

Either way: in the game config json there is an option for UI scaling, so it is coming. I can't test it but for those of you that can, maybe it is worth a shot to check if it is working already or not.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Haustvindr

[The Aziz]

While we're on the subject of UI, there's a terribly compressed snippet from today's blog

While the general style remains, I see few significant improvements on the right in the resource readouts.

Buut at the same time, I see some blocky 8's on the speedometer. Hopefully that's just the image compression doing weird things to pixels, not a planned feature.

[kerbiloid]

12 hours ago, The Aziz said:

What for?

For visual orientation.

[thewhitemetroid]

My biggest complaint with the new UI is the inconsistency. There is a mismatch of styles going on in the screen and most times even within the same widget. For example, the navball has the dot matrix or pixelated effects around the navball itself and then directly surrounding that, the altimeter, velocity, and compass gauges are all smooth type fonts and line work. Then pasted directly on top of those the altimeter and velocity readouts have smooth font numbers with pixelated lettering and outline. This lack of consistency prevails across all the UI elements. This is a poor design choice IMHO. I also flatly do not like the pixelated aspects of the UI. I would prefer the smoother more vivid line fonts that are used elsewhere. 

 

Otherwise just having the freedom to move, scale, or even remove elements of the UI will solve any other problems.