A Taste of Science

[GGG-GoodGuyGreg]

51 minutes ago, LoSBoL said:

I knew exactly what I was getting at release.

Didn't we all? Which explains why many including myself shelled out 50$ for an EA.

What we didn't know is the pace, the lack of clear communication and estimates, and that after almost 3 months no new features will be added and we still don't know when to expect the first ones.

[modus]

5 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

My thought exactly.

How... did... we... miss... THAT?!?

Yeah I've seen that video before. Don't know how much of it will make it to the actual game. Roverdude (Bob Palmer) has said before he did some artwork for ksp2 (which is why those parts look like MKS parts), but no gameplay stuff.

[GGG-GoodGuyGreg]

8 hours ago, PDCWolf said:

• ObsidiantAnt sped up the entirety of his footage slightly, (accidentally?) hiding framerate issues. He did not experience (or bothered to portray) any glaring issues, other than the lack of re-entry effects and ocean physics. He did mention the heating effects would be added for early access release lmao.
• MattLowne didn't hide the framerate issues, and he mentions encountering bugs and showed the eva-walk stuttering.
• ScottManley had, at points, the most noticeable framerate issues, though he also sped up his spaceplane flight near the KSC. He does however get a lot of points for warning users about the performance, though he didn't mention bugs on that conclusion.
• SWDennis also sped up parts of their footage but clearly showed framerate issues, and the only shown bug on his video was the wheel collision not working properly.
• EJ_SA has a 4 hour VOD I'm not bothering to watch entirely, but I did watch the section where he praises the physics system, the same one that can't hold an orbit stable, disassembles your spacecraft mid flight, and can't process the wheel collisions.

Only ScottManley had an almost proper warning of what was there for players on release. The rest didn't experience (or experience and didn't portray) or actively worked to hide the issues the game had and still has.

 

IIRC the Content Creators present at the event were assured by the KSP2 team that the obvious bugs are already being worked on and may not/will not be present in the release. Little did we all know...

Edited May 14, 2023 by GGG-GoodGuyGreg

[LoSBoL]

29 minutes ago, GGG-GoodGuyGreg said:

Didn't we all? Which explains why many including myself shelled out 50$ for an EA.

What we didn't know is the pace, the lack of clear communication and estimates, and that after almost 3 months no new features will be added and we still don't know when to expect the first ones.

EA ESA insiders launch event interview video's, two QOL updates before Science Milestone were mentioned as prognosses. You indeed didn't know the pace at which they would come, not knowing clearly  didn't affect your purchase decision. Did you create your own expectations? 

[GGG-GoodGuyGreg]

2 hours ago, LoSBoL said:

EA ESA insiders launch event interview video's, two QOL updates before Science Milestone were mentioned as prognosses. You indeed didn't know the pace at which they would come, not knowing clearly  didn't affect your purchase decision. Did you create your own expectations? 

I didn't create my own expectations, I'm not the one on the KSP2 team who said "2 QoL updates before Science Update".

So because we are now, in the best case scenario, going to get the Science update in 4 instead of 2 updates, is that on me for believing the blokes?

Or are you going to give me the EA argument and that anything said prior and after the launch, is subject to change and they shouldn't be held against such statements because it's EA?

 

[cocoscacao]

13 hours ago, PDCWolf said:

Clearing it up in fact is the complete opposite to showing they're barely starting on the parts for science now and they've had something as simple as a cockpit sitting around incomplete for 3 years whilst other cockpits are finalized.

I still don't get this argument. They've shown one part (already established by one member to be quite old). How is that giving away that they're starting with science parts now?

Also, and this will probably add fuel to the fire, ~4 cockpits are "finalized" (we don't know what that means yet). There are about ~4 more within the game that are not. We don't even know if those will be all of the available cockpits.

[LoSBoL]

32 minutes ago, GGG-GoodGuyGreg said:

I didn't create my own expectations, I'm not the one on the KSP2 team who said "2 QoL updates before Science Update".

So because we are now, in the best case scenario, going to get the Science update in 4 instead of 2 updates, is that on me for believing the blokes?

 

 

Would you have rather not have the bugfix patch and the performance patch first to make it a bit more playable for many? Those patches were quite necessarily in my opinion and not really awkward to have had them.

And still no broken 'promise' here. There probably still are going to be 2 QOL patches before the Science Milestone seeing the communications few ones back told which they told us they are going to slow update cadence to give bigger patches. 

 

42 minutes ago, GGG-GoodGuyGreg said:

Or are you going to give me the EA argument and that anything said prior and after the launch, is subject to change and they shouldn't be held against such statements because it's EA?

 

No, why are you displaying such  presumptuousness?

[SudAntares]

Magnetometer boom

Radio and Plasma Wave Science

Mystery Goo.

Please, rework the tech tree. Would be great to start with planes.

Also, would be good if the research would take time.

Some competitors would spice up the game.

The strategy would need s rework, like in the Strategia mod.

[PDCWolf]

5 hours ago, LoSBoL said:

Wow, that's some sugar coating, I saw non performant bugfested footage from all of them, none excluded. The times that the word 'bug' and 'maybe they'll fix this for release' was spoken, guided by the footage shown was telling the whole story. 

And here you are, one of the most critiquefull assessors of the game percieving it was all but some performance issues a few minor bugs and furthermore all dandy.

I'm not going to breakdown the videos for you, I'd suggest others to rerun them if they feel the need to assess for themselves. 

I knew exactly what I was getting at release.

How can we argue what is or isn't in a video? We cant. I went and watched the first 4, and told you that I watched a single section of EJ_SA's 4 hour VOD. What is or isn't in those videos is not something you can discuss, we can maybe discuss optics but not if something shows up or not. They only showed or talked about framerate issues (barely), no reentry heating (Obsidian said it was gonna be there for EA release), and no water physics. ONE video had an instance of weird wheel collisions but that's it.

4 hours ago, GGG-GoodGuyGreg said:

IIRC the Content Creators present at the event were assured by the KSP2 team that the obvious bugs are already being worked on and may not/will not be present in the release. Little did we all know...

Yeah, Matt Lowne mentioned they rounded up a lot of feedback from all the creators and delivered it all to intercept, and they said they'd work on them. They clearly didn't in a timely manner (remember, FEB 9 the event to FEB 24 the release).

1 hour ago, cocoscacao said:

I still don't get this argument. They've shown one part (already established by one member to be quite old). How is that giving away that they're starting with science parts now?

Also, and this will probably add fuel to the fire, ~4 cockpits are "finalized" (we don't know what that means yet). There are about ~4 more within the game that are not. We don't even know if those will be all of the available cockpits.

I missed whoever showed the part was old.

We know Shana said there would be more cockpits, we also know the "finalized" cockpits are the ones with transparent glass and working IVAs, those same IVAs that destroy the framerate due to unculled LOD and missing basic mesh optimization. On the other hand, the unfinished cockpits have orange glass, and have nothing inside yet. If you do take a look at the meshes, you can see the first type of cockpit is pretty much ready for animating, or adding animated elements to it.

Edit to add: Remember how they'd show us asset renders on the Unity editor to "Show and Tell" about the upcoming features of the finished game, that actually never arrived, because the features didn't exist? That's why I don't trust loose assets in a grey void.

Edited May 14, 2023 by PDCWolf

[LoSBoL]

10 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

They only showed or talked about framerate issues (barely), no reentry heating (Obsidian said it was gonna be there for EA release), and no water physics. ONE video had an instance of weird wheel collisions but that's it.

Sugarcoating again, I'll repeat what I said for the last time;

5 hours ago, LoSBoL said:

I'm not going to breakdown the videos for you, I'd suggest others to rerun them if they feel the need to assess for themselves. 

I knew exactly what I was getting at release.

 

[Scarecrow71]

1 minute ago, LoSBoL said:

Sugarcoating again, I'll repeat what I said for the last time;

 

For those of us who are lacking in google-fu skills this morning...can someone link to the videos in question so we can absolutely go watch them ourselves?

[RaBDawG]

Lol.  More crumbs on the ground for the diehards to follow and empty words with still no 3rd update or even a ETA on actual new content being added.  This game is a joke.  

On 5/12/2023 at 4:43 PM, Sylvi Fisthaug said:

If next update introduces some features and not just bug squashing, I am enthustiastically optimistic by playing with the thought that  v0.1.4.0 might include science and reentry heating? Or maybe reentry heating furst and then science in  v0.1.5.0. 

Anyways, I've got a discarded space station that I'm dying to deorbit. Looking at current graphics, I think it's going to be a beautiful spectacle in MAYBE 3-5 fps.

I promise you, there will be no new content in the next update whenever it actually is.  

[Alexoff]

4 hours ago, LoSBoL said:

Did you create your own expectations?

Judging by the feedback on steam, too many players had the wrong expectations about the game. In fact, many who have written positive reviews have the same negative opinion about the game, but they hope that someday this will be corrected. Where did the players have the wrong expectations? Are the players the only ones to blame?

[RaBDawG]

On 5/12/2023 at 5:17 PM, FlazeTheDragon said:

Wait, so is science gonna be in the next update?

No, lol. At least 4 months away, and that’s being optimistic.  

[PDCWolf]

20 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said:

For those of us who are lacking in google-fu skills this morning...can someone link to the videos in question so we can absolutely go watch them ourselves?

1. ObsidiantAnt - He made 2 follow ups.
2. EJ_SA 
3. Matt Lowne -
4. Scott Manley -
5. SWDennis -

[cocoscacao]

11 minutes ago, RaBDawG said:

I promise you, there will be no new content in the next update whenever it actually is.  

No there won't be. Just bug fixes and possibly a new engine. Next update is next week. This whole thread is about it.

[Alexoff]

2 minutes ago, cocoscacao said:

Next update is next week.

We expect to be able to communicate timing for the upcoming v0.1.3.0 update next week.

See, you've got the wrong expectations. Next week there will be an announcement of the release date of the patch. As happens with films - the announcement of the release date of the teaser trailer for the new film.

[cocoscacao]

46 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

I missed whoever showed the part was old.

1st page, by user Spicat. I'd love to quote him here, so you don't have to dig, but quoting between pages is driving me nuts. Also, image links are broken for me.

47 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

We know Shana said there would be more cockpits, we also know the "finalized" cockpits are the ones with transparent glass and working IVAs,

Care to share the link to that thread? I don't know what IVA activities will include, so just having transparent cockpits isn't something I consider finished.

 

3 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

See, you've got the wrong expectations. Next week there will be an announcement of the release date of the patch.

I stand corrected.

[LoSBoL]

45 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

1. ObsidiantAnt - He made 2 follow ups.
2. EJ_SA 
3. Matt Lowne -
4. Scott Manley -
5. SWDennis -

You missed a couple still, found at Matt Lowne and SWDennis their channels.

49 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

Judging by the feedback on steam, too many players had the wrong expectations about the game. In fact, many who have written positive reviews have the same negative opinion about the game, but they hope that someday this will be corrected. Where did the players have the wrong expectations? Are the players the only ones to blame?

The reviews reflect the state of the game, read some of the negative buy reviews and look at what exactly they posted;

Lack of features-> didn't read roadmap or watched EA launch video shared 4 months before release.

Not worth 50 dollars, I expected more-> Expectations based almost solely on price.

I loved KSP,  KSP² must be awesome, thats why I bought it-> Expectations based on KSP¹.

Bugfest->Indeed.

As I said though, the reviews reflect the state of the game. I can't recommend buying it either.

There were plenty of red flags raised before release, many went in head first nevertheless and got burned. The reviews tell that story as well.

Edited May 14, 2023 by LoSBoL

[PDCWolf]

1 minute ago, cocoscacao said:

1st page, by user Spicat. I'd love to quote him here, so you don't have to dig, but quoting between pages is driving me nuts. Also, image links are broken for me.

Ok, I guess you mean this:

On 5/12/2023 at 4:28 PM, Spicat said:

Nice, very happy to see news from science.

This science part seems to be on par with the part we saw back in 2020

  Hide contents

Source :

  Reveal hidden contents

 

You can quote the message and right-click > copy to take that quote with you to anywhere in the forum, or quote and write in the first page, click the last page and open the editor again, which should load everything you wrote.

I'm just not getting the same message, to see a remix of a 3 year old part still on an asset mount is not that positive to me, much more so when the part hasn't changed that much conceptually, as it doesn't portray "progress" clearly. Seeing an animation of the part deploying, in game, with the right click menu? That'd be infinitely better... Maybe peeking at some of the science interface as a secondary gift? oof, a man can dream. Maybe they should hire me as their PR, assuming they actually have something done behind the scenes (yes, this is obviously a joke).

21 minutes ago, cocoscacao said:

Care to share the link to that thread? I don't know what IVA activities will include, so just having transparent cockpits isn't something I consider finished.

Nate confirmed interactable IVAs (just Ctrl+F "IVAs"). Shana Markham didn't give much of an answer on more cockpits/modules. (You can Ctrl+F "cockpit")

[Alexoff]

4 minutes ago, LoSBoL said:

There were plenty of red flags raised before release, many went in head first nevertheless and got burned. The reviews tell that story as well.

Most likely, the players did not think that everything was so bad. They probably hoped that the very core of the game, after bloggers played it, would be brought to an acceptable state. Of course, the players are to blame for watching trailers from T2 in 2023, where they forgot to mention the deplorable state of the game.

[LoSBoL]

Just now, Alexoff said:

after bloggers played it, would be brought to an acceptable state. 

I'm not going to repeat what I said earlier. Stop running around in circles.

[PDCWolf]

15 minutes ago, LoSBoL said:

You missed a couple still, found at Matt Lowne and SWDennis their channels.

The reviews reflect the state of the game, read some of the negative buy reviews and look at what exactly they posted;

Lack of features-> didn't read roadmap or watched EA launch video shared 4 months before release.

Not worth 50 dollars, I expected more-> Expectations based almost solely on price.

I loved KSP,  KSP² must be awesome, thats why I bought it-> Expectations based on KSP¹.

Bugfest->Indeed.

As I said though, the reviews reflect the state of the game. I can't recommend buying it either.

There were plenty of red flags raised before release, many went in head first nevertheless and got burned. The reviews tell that story as well.

Let me remind you of your words:

17 hours ago, LoSBoL said:

Yes, because there was an EA ESA insiders launch event organised and you got to see the real deal form popular content creators in what you would be getting, no bandages attached.

I watched and examined the videos from the EA ESA insiders launch event. You wanna keep screaming sugarcoating? go ahead, doesn't change the fact that those videos do no favors, and that now you've moved the goalpost to follow ups and post-launch reviews.

[LoSBoL]

5 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

You wanna keep screaming sugarcoating? go ahead

No I don't, and I won't, just like I already said I wouldn't, so why do you keep asking? 

12 minutes ago, PDCWolf said:

and that now you've moved the goalpost to follow ups and post-launch reviews.

I was asked a question, and it got an answer, nice framing there buddy.

[The Aziz]

1 hour ago, cocoscacao said:

Also, image links are broken for me.

Those are imgur links and I find it also not working through wifi. Good to know I'm not the only one here now, thought that was my Internet connection. Works for me on mobile data though.