Track record of the studio and future of KSP2

[Ferio]

I know this is probably topic number 1000 regarding future of KSP2, but this video actually confirms the worry I and most likely others have for KSP2 that we wish will not happen.

It's not an attack, but I see very simillair things happen to KSP2.

I'm talking about the second part of the video, starting from 7:49 minutes

 

How do you see things developing, knowing the track record of the developers now? It looks shockingly identical to their previous games, including comments regarding the games.

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Ferio

[Nicrose]

Oh wow, I just watched the video and I had no idea there was so much going on behind the scenes. UG to ST and all the games they released in buggy, unfinished states just to abandon with the same exact communication we are getting now? I sure hope this game is different and I really wish I didn’t feel so lied to by Nate every time  I honestly had a way different opinion on what Nate said until I was reminded about everything else he’s said and how little of it ended up being true. It may be true to his desires, but I don’t believe it reflects reality and is more meant to subdue us. 

[Strawberry]

This analysis drastically overestimates the continuity of Uber entertainment to intercept games. When Take two took over, every producer besides one got fired from ksp2, most of the engineers (especially the senior ones and leads) were gone. And of course the CEO and all of Uber's other management was gone too. Unless there's some secret cabal of artists controlling the game, the actual management and technical implementation side of ksp2 is pretty close to a fresh start.

[Spicat]

This guy seems to be a joke, some incorrect things like the one @Strawberrymentionned (Look at Linkedin lot of people didn't stay this much time). The fact he says some things like "there is not a single acknowledgement of huge performance issues anywhere" while there are TWO dev diary about this (and multiple other acknowledgement).

But the last straw is probably looking at the comments:

Talking about this (screenshot from his video):

He's straight up lying (he's become what he swore to destroy). This comment alone clearly suggest bug reports and not stolen mods.

In summary, I wouldn't trust this guy too much (and the source in the description is a paid article so I can't check the validity). What we have from Uber Entertainement is some devs (a lot less than the 50% stated in the video), and the management seems to be very different because it's under Take2 and Private Division.

In fact I did my homework and checked on linkedin every person mentionned on the kickstarter video (of Human Resources linked in the description):

Chandana Ekanayake, John Comes, Steve Thompson, Steve Smith, Forrest Smith, Marc Scattergood and Bob berry (the ceo) didn't step a foot at Intercept Games. (I did saw the sound guy who's still at Intercept though but he wasn't mentioned)

So we can't really have a conclusion on ksp2 development by comparing it to Planetary annihilation. The main argument of his video is just Nate Simpson to be honest. So don't believe Nate if you want.

Edited May 21, 2023 by Spicat

[Scarecrow71]

The real problem with videos like this is that if you go looking for trouble, you will find it.  The author/host/whatever obviously has a poor opinion of KSP2 (and, to be fair, my own opinion is not real high right now), and so he went looking for anything that supported what he believes about the game and Nate and whomever else got in his way.

Now, that isn't to say that some points aren't true.  It also isn't to say that you should or should not believe what he says.  Rather to just be careful with videos like this.  Take them with several grains of salt, pick them apart, and look for the actual truths in them instead of blindly following everything said.

[AtomicTech]

2 hours ago, Spicat said:

This comment alone clearly suggest bug reports and not stolen mods.

They really need to give real credit where credit is due.

Imagine how awesome it'd be to be listed in the credits for KSP 2!

[Yakuzi]

9 hours ago, Strawberry said:

This analysis drastically overestimates the continuity of Uber entertainment to intercept games. When Take two took over, every producer besides one got fired from ksp2, most of the engineers (especially the senior ones and leads) were gone. And of course the CEO and all of Uber's other management was gone too. Unless there's some secret cabal of artists controlling the game, the actual management and technical implementation side of ksp2 is pretty close to a fresh start.

 

9 hours ago, Spicat said:

In summary, I wouldn't trust this guy too much (and the source in the description is a paid article so I can't check the validity). What we have from Uber Entertainement is some devs (a lot less than the 50% stated in the video), and the management seems to be very different because it's under Take2 and Private Division.

Do either of you have any sources or are these just assumptions? AFAIK there's no evidence supporting a "fresh start" or discontinuation of management or the game after the Take-Two poached Star Theory's KSP2 team. The sources I found (which includes a statement by a T2 spokesman) described that more than 50% of the development team working on KSP 2 made the move from Star Theory to Take-Two, including three leaders who immediately made the move (source 1, source 2):

 

Spoiler

Despite reportedly encouraging their employees to stay at the company in an attempt to secure a new project, more than half of KSP2’s development team are claimed to have eventually joined Take-Two’s new studio Intercept Games.

[snip]

Brian Roundy, a spokesman for Take-Two’s Private Division publishing label, told the publication: “More than half of the team is now at Intercept Games. In doing so, we are empowering our deeply passionate and talented team to focus on quality, and we are thrilled with the progress that they are making on the game.”

Star Theory began work on KSP2 in 2017, after Take-Two purchased the rights to the popular flight sim game from another independent studio, Squad.

 

Spoiler

“More than half of the team is now at Intercept Games,” Roundy wrote. “In doing so, we are empowering our deeply passionate and talented team to focus on quality, and we are thrilled with the progress that they are making on the game.” 

[snip]

Three of Star Theory’s leaders—Jeremy Ables, the studio chief; Nate Simpson, the creative director; and Nate Robinson, the lead producer—departed for Take-Two’s new studio immediately.

[snip]

About a dozen of Star Theory’s 30 employees wound up leaving for Take-Two’s new studio, while the rest stuck around in an attempt to save the business, they said. By January, the remaining team had a plan in place: Each employee would spend the next two months brainstorming new ideas and building prototypes. Then they would pitch the best ones to publishers at the Game Developers Conference in mid-March in the hope of securing a new deal, the five workers said. The annual conference is always full of publishers looking to make investments in indie studios with proven track records.

Then came the pandemic. The conference was canceled, leaving Star Theory with nowhere to take its pitches. Publishers, sensing an economic downturn, tightened their spending. On March 4, Star Theory shut down. Each worker received a month’s pay and two months of health insurance, said three former employees. A few joined their former colleagues at Take-Two’s Intercept Games.

Kerbal Space Program 2 remains in development at Intercept. The game had been set to come out this year, but the company said last month it was delaying the release until the fall of 2021.

 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Yakuzi

[GGG-GoodGuyGreg]

58 minutes ago, Yakuzi said:

Do either of you have any sources or are these just assumptions? AFAIK there's no evidence supporting a "fresh start" or discontinuation of management or the game after the Take-Two poached Star Theory's KSP2 team. The sources I found (which includes a statement by a T2 spokesman) described that more than 50% of the development team working on KSP 2 made the move from Star Theory to Take-Two, including three leaders who immediately made the move (source 1, source 2):

How else can you go from game being in "the final stretch to be released" and then, a couple of years later, you switch to EA type of release, with so many stuff missing and no performance optimizations?

I think it's better to assume the game was started over, other than it was all a big lie years ago, when game was supposedly in the final stretch.

[Alexoff]

Although the management of the company changed, by a surprising coincidence, the result changed little. Millennium question - why did T2 entrust KSP2 to such a controversial company in 2017?

[Spicat]

On 5/22/2023 at 10:44 AM, Yakuzi said:

Do either of you have any sources or are these just assumptions? AFAIK there's no evidence supporting a "fresh start" or discontinuation of management or the game after the Take-Two poached Star Theory's KSP2 team. The sources I found (which includes a statement by a T2 spokesman) described that more than 50% of the development team working on KSP 2 made the move from Star Theory to Take-Two, including three leaders who immediately made the move (source 1, source 2):

Mostly linkedin:

Bob Berry and Jonathan Mavor,  respectively Founder/CEO and Co-Founder/CTO both are still at Uber Entertainment which is still a huge change in management.

As I linked in my message a lot of people at the time of Planetary Annihilation and Human Resources weren't there for KSP 2 (not even during the Star Theory period).

On the opposite side a lot of new people stepped in after the studio change:

Grant Gertz Director of Production  at Intercept, wasn't at Uber Entertainment/Star Theory.

Paige Ketcham, Producer, wasn't at Uber Entertainment/Star Theory  (and isn't here at Intercept anymore)

Grace Tuohey-Kay, Associate Producer wasn't at Uber Entertainment/Star Theory

Colton Marshall, Bay Anapol, Dan Goes,  Eric Milota, Drew Clowery, Philip Fortier, Erin Holmes, David Casas Vidal, Joshua Collins, Marnelli Jabonero, Sung Campbell, Jake Schichko, Alexander Martin, John Roper, Rafael Calonzo, Ian Boudreaux, iuri ferreira, Chris Adderley (Nertea), Mike Sawicki, Juan Bernardo Tamez, John (Jay) Del Valle, Nicholas Draper and so on, weren't at Uber Entertainment/Star Theory (Some were at Squad and a lot of them are engineer)

A lot of new people came here recently also (in 2023), Darrin House (Director of QA), Chris Mortonson (Mortoc)

And from those who were here during the Star Theory period, they weren't necessarily here for the Uber Entertainment period, for example, Matthew Cech (Software Engineering Manager) join in 2018 for KSP 2, same for Nate Robinson (Senior Producer).

In fact there is a little amount of people that I found that were at Uber Entertainment and worked on KSP 2. So yes, with all this, it's complicated to compare the two, apart from Nate Simpson who is the Creative Director and who I doubt he has that much influence (especially on the technical side of thing).

Edited May 24, 2023 by Spicat

[MarcAbaddon]

24 minutes ago, GGG-GoodGuyGreg said:

How else can you go from game being in "the final stretch to be released" and then, a couple of years later, you switch to EA type of release, with so many stuff missing and no performance optimizations?

I think it's better to assume the game was started over, other than it was all a big lie years ago, when game was supposedly in the final stretch.

I think it is hard to get around them having been not completely honest. Look at the quotes in 

Because the development continuity and being almost done in 2021 (after the studio switch) was also communicated by them.

 

[Yakuzi]

2 hours ago, Spicat said:

Mostly linkedin:

[snip]

So let me get this straight: based on your social media searches you're suggesting that an official spokesman from the company that makes KSP2 lied?

[Spicat]

8 minutes ago, Yakuzi said:

So let me get this straight: based on your social media searches you're suggesting that an official spokesman from the company that makes KSP2 lied?

Wow, I shouldn't have taken this much time to get my point missed by a mile.

Firstly, I can't see the Bloomberg article because you must pay. So I can't check if the "three leaders" you mention made the move and stayed but I will focus on the first source.

Secondly, I'm saying that as of TODAY a lot (and I mean a lot) less than 50% of people are from Uber Entertainment (and even Star Theory). The video clearly say that Intercept is Uber Entertainment which is mostly false.

Why? The source you provide clearly said that 50% made the move from Star Theory, not Uber Entertainment and as I mentionned most were NOT at Uber Entertainment.

[Nicrose]

8 hours ago, Yakuzi said:

So let me get this straight: based on your social media searches you're suggesting that an official spokesman from the company that makes KSP2 lied?

Honestly LinkedIn is way more credible than “social media”, especially in the game dev world. We take our LinkedIn very seriously and use it to apply for jobs. It’s not something people lie on 

[Wheehaw Kerman]

On 5/21/2023 at 7:38 PM, Spicat said:

This guy seems to be a joke, some incorrect things like the one @Strawberrymentionned (Look at Linkedin lot of people didn't stay this much time). The fact he says some things like "there is not a single acknowledgement of huge performance issues anywhere" while there are TWO dev diary about this (and multiple other acknowledgement).

But the last straw is probably looking at the comments:

Talking about this (screenshot from his video):

He's straight up lying (he's become what he swore to destroy). This comment alone clearly suggest bug reports and not stolen mods.

In summary, I wouldn't trust this guy too much (and the source in the description is a paid article so I can't check the validity). What we have from Uber Entertainement is some devs (a lot less than the 50% stated in the video), and the management seems to be very different because it's under Take2 and Private Division.

In fact I did my homework and checked on linkedin every person mentionned on the kickstarter video (of Human Resources linked in the description):

Chandana Ekanayake, John Comes, Steve Thompson, Steve Smith, Forrest Smith, Marc Scattergood and Bob berry (the ceo) didn't step a foot at Intercept Games. (I did saw the sound guy who's still at Intercept though but he wasn't mentioned)

So we can't really have a conclusion on ksp2 development by comparing it to Planetary annihilation. The main argument of his video is just Nate Simpson to be honest. So don't believe Nate if you want.

Not at all surprising to hear that the clickbaity title was just the tip of the iceberg…

[ShadowDev]

On 5/22/2023 at 12:38 AM, Spicat said:

This guy seems to be a joke, some incorrect things like the one @Strawberrymentionned (Look at Linkedin lot of people didn't stay this much time). The fact he says some things like "there is not a single acknowledgement of huge performance issues anywhere" while there are TWO dev diary about this (and multiple other acknowledgement).

But the last straw is probably looking at the comments:

Talking about this (screenshot from his video):

He's straight up lying (he's become what he swore to destroy). This comment alone clearly suggest bug reports and not stolen mods.

In summary, I wouldn't trust this guy too much (and the source in the description is a paid article so I can't check the validity). What we have from Uber Entertainement is some devs (a lot less than the 50% stated in the video), and the management seems to be very different because it's under Take2 and Private Division.

In fact I did my homework and checked on linkedin every person mentionned on the kickstarter video (of Human Resources linked in the description):

Chandana Ekanayake, John Comes, Steve Thompson, Steve Smith, Forrest Smith, Marc Scattergood and Bob berry (the ceo) didn't step a foot at Intercept Games. (I did saw the sound guy who's still at Intercept though but he wasn't mentioned)

So we can't really have a conclusion on ksp2 development by comparing it to Planetary annihilation. The main argument of his video is just Nate Simpson to be honest. So don't believe Nate if you want.

if we was to compare development of ksp2 to Planetary annihilation then it has a bright future. Planetary annihilation is a great game. and was also good on launch. I got PA Nov 29 2014

Edited May 23, 2023 by ShadowDev
added dates

[GGG-GoodGuyGreg]

3 hours ago, ShadowDev said:

if we was to compare development of ksp2 to Planetary annihilation then it has a bright future. Planetary annihilation is a great game. and was also good on launch. I got PA Nov 29 2014

Didn’t they promise 2 factions and they only got one in the end? Severely limiting the replay ability of the game. 

[Alexoff]

 

[ShadowDev]

3 minutes ago, GGG-GoodGuyGreg said:

Didn’t they promise 2 factions and they only got one in the end? Severely limiting the replay ability of the game. 

the game has 5 official ones and 3 community made ones, so no. not sure where you heard that. 

[GGG-GoodGuyGreg]

4 minutes ago, ShadowDev said:

the game has 5 official ones and 3 community made ones, so no. not sure where you heard that. 

Then they either added in the last 2 years or the information I have is incorrect. Sorry I wasn't aware it's no longer one faction only.

 

[K^2]

On 5/22/2023 at 5:47 AM, Yakuzi said:

based on your social media searches

Kind of shows how little of an argument you have, if you have to turn "Comparing employment profiles listed on LinkedIn," into "social media search," to make it sound credible.

[ShadowDev]

Just now, GGG-GoodGuyGreg said:

Then they either added in the last 2 years or the information I have is incorrect. Sorry I wasn't aware it's no longer one faction only.

 

its had multiple factions since release. 

[Alexoff]

13 minutes ago, K^2 said:

Kind of shows how little of an argument you have, if you have to turn "Comparing employment profiles listed on LinkedIn," into "social media search," to make it sound credible.

In addition, the presence of a "KSP2 developer" in the profile says much more than PA developer

[Strawberry]

On 5/22/2023 at 3:44 AM, Yakuzi said:

Do either of you have any sources or are these just assumptions? AFAIK there's no evidence supporting a "fresh start" or discontinuation of management or the game after the Take-Two poached Star Theory's KSP2 team. The sources I found (which includes a statement by a T2 spokesman) described that more than 50% of the development team working on KSP 2 made the move from Star Theory to Take-Two, including three leaders who immediately made the move (source 1, source 2):

I dont think the claim of 50% of people from star theory moved to take two is that far off (though just eyeballing it from linkedin + credits Id place it closer to 40%, also the percent of people from star theory has definitely shrunk due to more people getting hired + people leaving). The important thing is who moved over. By far the biggest issues of the game are in the technical department, the creative side of things dont really have many issues. You see way more people complaining about orbital maneuver bugs then they do about the sprite of the reliant engine. By far the people most responsible for the technical side of game are the producers, who manage the workflows of engineers, and the engineers themselves, who actually implement the stuff. These two areas by far saw the most cuts, with only one producer, and a few engineers being brought back. While of course, a design director can impact indirectly how the technical side of the game goes through things like scope creep, they arent nearly as responsible for a dysfunctional technical side as producers and engineers considering they're the ones who most directly work on the stuff.

 

Also unrelated but why are people acting like planetary annihilations was this unredeemable game that has nothing good about it. While I have not played the game, from what I've heard the release was mixed at best, however the game is now in a good state with a lot of fans. Honestly generally speaking, if this game shapes out like planetary annihilation that doesn't sound like a bad thing. 

[Meecrob]

From the wiki:

"Planetary Annihilation received a mixed reception upon release. The game was praised for its ambitious concept, but criticized for playability and overall incompleteness. Rock, Paper, Shotgun's Brendan Caldwell writes: "Planetary Annihilation is a slick, modernised RTS, engineered from the ground up to appeal to the fast-paced, competitive, hotkey-loving esports crowd".^[29] PC Gamer's Emanuel Maiberg, experiencing hard to learn gameplay unaided by proper tutorials and disrupted by technical issues, states: "I know there's a great, massive RTS beneath all these issues. I've seen glimpses of it when everything works correctly, but at the moment I can't recommend Planetary Annihilation without a warning that it's bound to disappoint and frustrate, even if you do teach yourself to play it".^[30] IGN's Rob Zacny summarizes: "A cool idea about robot armies battling across an entire solar system breaks apart when the realities of controlling multiple worlds at the same time set in"

Reviews are:

Metacritic: 62/100

Eurogamer: 6/10

IGN: 4.8/10

 

I sincerely hope that KSP2 turns out better than PA, but I have to be realistic here.