Clayel Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 I like that hotfixes are being considered as more of an option now, I was beginning to think we would only see minor patches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redneck Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said: How this is still not fixed months after initial reporting is beyond me. I wish I could tell my boss "Hey, I know there's a critical bug affecting our code, but I just can't get it fixed for several months". I'd be escorted out of the building if I tried pulling that. I am honestly not sure whether I applaud you pushing release dates or am angry about you doing that. You have already slowed the cadence for fixes down, and several people - myself included - have indicated that we simply won't even fire up KSP2 until after these bugs are fixed because EVERYTHING WE WANT TO DO IN KSP2 IS IMPACTED BY THESE BUGS. I can't put it any more plain or clear than that. These bugs are preventing some of us from playing a game we paid you for. Orbital decay, SOI trajectory issues, and losing control of decoupled probes are the 3 most impactful and important issues right now. Personally, nothing beyond these three should be getting any attention until they are fixed. Several months? You yourself stated several years ago that the game was almost ready for release. How can this still be months away? Can you explain how the timing of this sale isn't fishy considering the lack of players prior to the patch, coupled with dwindling - if any - sales of the game? I believe the next earnings call is probably coming up, right? Dude i agree with you on your arguments. I dont like how the state of this game was released either or the price they chose to release it at. But it was. No taking that back now. Lets try encouraging the devs and cheering them on it makes imo a better working environment and thus better quality patches when you dont have all that animosity hovering over you. I understand keeping their feet held to the fire but ive chosen to give them some breathing room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TickleMyMary Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Just now, Dakota said: Props to our Art Director Ness for coming up with the title for this one. Was way better than my suggestion "Scaling Up"... Yeah... It is quite the terrifying update to say the least, very apt name choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarecrow71 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, mattihase said: Why would that be fishy, that seems like a perfectly parsable explaination for why games companies release updates alongside sales all the time. Do people not know that they do this? is this surprising to you? pretty sure KSP1 did that back in the day too. It seems fishy because it stinks of trying to raise quick cash so the project doesn't get cancelled. Anyone can see the historical player counts, which were not good in the days leading up to the patch. What we can't see is sales figures or revenue generated. Dakota mentioned that this was supposed to drop at the same time of the Steam Summer Sale, but it came out early. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jost Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 8 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said: How this is still not fixed months after initial reporting is beyond me. I wish I could tell my boss "Hey, I know there's a critical bug affecting our code, but I just can't get it fixed for several months". I'd be escorted out of the building if I tried pulling that. I am honestly not sure whether I applaud you pushing release dates or am angry about you doing that. You have already slowed the cadence for fixes down, and several people - myself included - have indicated that we simply won't even fire up KSP2 until after these bugs are fixed because EVERYTHING WE WANT TO DO IN KSP2 IS IMPACTED BY THESE BUGS. I can't put it any more plain or clear than that. These bugs are preventing some of us from playing a game we paid you for. Orbital decay, SOI trajectory issues, and losing control of decoupled probes are the 3 most impactful and important issues right now. Personally, nothing beyond these three should be getting any attention until they are fixed. Well maybe because the root cause is more complicated than fixing other issues? And why should work on science mode (especially but not only the artistic elements) stop? It's good practice to do things in paaralel if you are able to do so. Part designers don't need to stop their work due do game breaking bugs. They can't help to fix them anyhow. And why should an developer who mainly works on heating or the graphic technical overhaul switch his work to another part of the code base he don't even have any clue where to begin with (thus introducing new bugs during "fixing"). The idea to use team members for work they are not qualified to do would only result in more delays in fixing the bugs and the road map. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattihase Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said: It seems fishy because it stinks of trying to raise quick cash so the project doesn't get cancelled. So more a concern over lack of discussion of a potential sword of damocles rather than fishy in considering it an unusual move to take given the proposed circumstances? (which it wouldn't be) Edited June 23, 2023 by mattihase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidian1024 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 I think the sale makes sense. After this patch the performance is actually quite good. I think now's a great time to get more people onboard the KSP2 early access train. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattihase Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 People have been saying mid-rangers are having a lot easier a time with this patch too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jost Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Scarecrow71 said: It seems fishy because it stinks of trying to raise quick cash so the project doesn't get cancelled. Anyone can see the historical player counts, which were not good in the days leading up to the patch. What we can't see is sales figures or revenue generated. Dakota mentioned that this was supposed to drop at the same time of the Steam Summer Sale, but it came out early. Why? I doubt that any staff member of IG, Take Two or Private Devision will talk about their internal company politics and managment wisdom (or the obvious lack of it). At least if they want to keep their job and get another one in the industry in the future. Concerning the steam sale: I guess the publisher want to make some money. Since most people don't want to pay the normal price for the game in it's current state (I wouldn't either even if my old potato would be able to handle it) they propaby said "Hell, let's try to see how many people will buy this for that price so we have at least a little bit revenue out of this mess". I don't expect an official confirmation or denial for obvious reasons. Edited June 23, 2023 by jost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerpyAintHere Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Now that clears some stuff up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schlosrat Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 I'd like to add my voice to the enthusiastic support of a hotfix for the SOI and orbital decay issues. There's a mod solution for the other one (and has been for months), so I'm less concerned with the loss of probe control on decoupling. Sure, please do fix it - it's an annoying bug, but at least we have a viable workaround in hand. The other two are another matter entirely. I know they're complicated, and I'm sure you want to be careful that you've got them fixed, but please, please, please, give us a hotfix for those ASAP! Pretty please with sugar on top? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RileyHef Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 12 minutes ago, mattihase said: Why would that be fishy, that seems like a perfectly parsable explaination for why games companies release updates alongside sales all the time. It's fishy to them because that is the narrative this user (and others in the community) wants to promote. Many have already come to their own conclusion that this game is a failure (which is an opinion they are entitled to), but this also brings them to search for further evidence of such to prove their point... even if it means using speculation and some imagination to drive these ideas. Based on the info we are given, including this update, it's pretty clear what velocity the game is going at. I am not thrilled about it, especially the confirmation of science being much further away than I had hoped, but it is what it is. I just hope that KSP2 can get to 1.0 before the lights are shut off. They have chosen to prioritize bug fixes and, while it is a slow burn, we are seeing many improvements. They have also chosen to promote the game heavily. We've seen several CGI trailers, online marketing, and a game sale to coincide with a patch release this week. All of these things are pretty typical marketing (ignoring if it is warranted or not) in my opinion. I'm not seeing the sale as a doomsday sign either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aziz Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 26 minutes ago, MechBFP said: More important than a hotfix in my opinion is that the QA test cases should be updated to include actually playing a handful of different normal game play scenarios from start to finish without saves to see if anything weird is going on. This is very much a situation of missing the forest for the trees. Especially when the scenario is just "slap together a simple 1.25m rocket, send it to orbit and back". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jockel Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 the fact that you constantly talk so much about QA and that is a process that hinders development and going further faster, you guys missed a whole lot of bugs introduced with this update. 10 minutes 10 bugs ... i just wanted to test the frame rate improvements, but i didnt get to it, cause it was too frustrating building a simple rocket. thanks for nothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGG-GoodGuyGreg Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) @Nate Simpson Thanks for answering some questions that I thought will be ignored again, like when we get the Science update. My only major disappointment is it was hinted right before the launch that the game is with your words, “in the final stretch”. Why didn’t you provide a clear statement before launch that first roadmap item is estimated to be coming in 1 year? It would have saved both us and the KSP2 team ( especially the CMs) from a lot of headache and it wouldn’t have hit the game’s reputation as much. Edited June 23, 2023 by GGG-GoodGuyGreg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jockel Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Just now, GGG-GoodGuyGreg said: @Nate Simpson Thanks for answering some questions that I thought will be ignored again, like when we get the Science update. My only major disappointment is it was hinted right before the launch that the game is with your words, “in the final stretch”. Why didn’t you provide a clear statement before launch that first roadmap item is estimated to be coming in 1 year? It would have saved both us and the KSP2 team ( especially the CMs) from a lot of headache. Why he didnt tell us before? Because a lot less people would have gotten scammed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGG-GoodGuyGreg Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, Jockel said: Why he didnt tell us before? Because a lot less people would have gotten scammed. Let’s give the man a chance to tell us what happened before accusing that this was the idea all along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anth Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 31 minutes ago, Dakota said: Props to our Art Director Ness for coming up with the title for this one. Was way better than my suggestion "Scaling Up"... Incredible title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro648 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyritin Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Glad to see the update out in the open, but once again this update seemed to introduce as many bugs as it squashed. Was able to see some relief regarding planes and how weirdly they behaved trying to leave the runway and fly, but having more issues with things like placing fairings and SAS wobble (though this has been a major issue since day 1, so this getting worse could be a result of underlying issues being removed and making it worse). I've also had issues still with radial decouplers randomly just letting go of the thing they were on requiring my to struct everything together "just incase". The new part introduced in this version doesn't even fully function in the VAB... It'd be nice to see a bit more polish and professionalism coming from the team. Things like the sole function of a new part NOT working in the VAB isn't something that should have ever made it out of QA. Diminutive fairing icons that all render on top of each other is another example of basic polish stuff that isn't doing your team any favors in the court of public opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geredis Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) Shame that the game I bought back in February will finally reach the, initially expected, at-release state, by October at the earliest, given the pacing of updates and all. It's good that things seem to be improving, but as it stands, re-entry and science still remain the absolute floor of what I think could/should have been expected within that initial 3 month period given. Considering it's taken 3 months to get to this point, and there's probably at least 2 more patches before Science...given current cadence, I can't imagine it will be on the table before October, at the earliest, and more likely December or beyond. Edited June 23, 2023 by Geredis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarecrow71 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, Geredis said: Shame that the game I bought back in February will finally reach the, initially expected, at-release state, by October at the earliest, given the pacing of updates and all. It's good that things seem to be improving, but as it stands, re-entry and science still remain the absolute floor of what I think could/should have been expected within that initial 3 month period given. Considering it's taken 3 months to get to this point, and there's probably at least 2 more patches before Science...given current cadence, I can't imagine it will be on the table before October, at the earliest, and more likely December or beyond. Nate says EOY 2023, but I doubt we get 0.2 any time before the 1 year anniversary of the EA launch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
didkodidko Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Now this is what I call responsible, clear and transparent! Almost lost fate Nate! Thank you for proving that light is still shining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakez Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Dear Nate, can your drop Kerbal speak and type as a normal human being. Preferably in American Ingles that majority of us understand. I want see patch note reports on development and not philological puzzle each time cReAtIvE DiReCtOr post. Time for being funny was 5 month ago before releasing 50 USD product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
didkodidko Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Pyritin said: Glad to see the update out in the open, but once again this update seemed to introduce as many bugs as it squashed. Was able to see some relief regarding planes and how weirdly they behaved trying to leave the runway and fly, but having more issues with things like placing fairings and SAS wobble (though this has been a major issue since day 1, so this getting worse could be a result of underlying issues being removed and making it worse). I've also had issues still with radial decouplers randomly just letting go of the thing they were on requiring my to struct everything together "just incase". The new part introduced in this version doesn't even fully function in the VAB... It'd be nice to see a bit more polish and professionalism coming from the team. Things like the sole function of a new part NOT working in the VAB isn't something that should have ever made it out of QA. Diminutive fairing icons that all render on top of each other is another example of basic polish stuff that isn't doing your team any favors in the court of public opinion. From what I see as a pattern in the updates is that deep groundbreaking bugs like soi trajectories, decupler, wobble, weird physics will be part of the major engine overhaul most probably with science update. Until then I'll keep the faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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